- User Since
- Mar 18 2013, 2:47 AM (367 w, 1 d)
May 10 2016
How about also being able to rappel down boulders and a grappling hook for roof tops!!
One important thing the AI should do when placing their stack is to be far enough back off the door to not expose their rifles past the door. We call that FLAGGING. Pointing your weapon at your battle buddy is also FLAGGING.
I would suggest using the fastest speed with their muzzles up to ensure maximum number of barrels through the door as soon as possible. With us, slow is smooth, smooth is fast, but we can train to have our muzzles over our team mate's shoulder. The main thing for the AI is to MOVE WITH THEIR MUZZLE POINTED IN A SLIGHTLY OFF POSITION FROM THE DIRECTION THEY ARE GOING. So if I'm moving straight towards the door behind someone so they look official, and once they have cleared their corner in the room, they point the muzzle back to the middle of the room
The only way to aviod windows, even in real life, is to crouch under them. I can't find any good pictures of stack because there is always two or three guys with their muzzles pointed lazily at the ground.
I believe that, in order to have a whole platoon clearing a village together, you would need triggers on each house saying whether opfor not present for the whole building to be rendered "no more need for clearing" so they don't re clear the same building. Also, each platoon has roughly 4 squads. one squad per building, and one fireteam per room. I'm going o upload a picture of the leap frog method.
Well, we are taught to never use full auto/burst when clearing rooms because it is dangerous. A really good movie that illustrates this is Act of Valor. It just gets me hard when I see them weapons at the high ready firing single, well placed shots into multiple enemies who are firing full auto cause thy can't hit shit like that. It's mostly a safety concern because you roll into a room, boom you fall with the weapon on fire, and burst half a clip into your buddy before you realize what's going on.
Stack up option is good. It can also be used against you, so you have to be fast. Stacking up makes you vulnerable. Stack is on the door, the AI gives the "ready" option once they are stopped. Making sure they point their muzzles in different directions, and then move into the room. Controlled pair, two shots to the chest every time they fire.
All they would have to do is move along the walls a certain distance and then stop. 1 and 2 man, barrels pointing center, corner, center. 3 and 4 man, center, high. If you would like me to illustrate a complex building clearing technique called leap frogging, I can do so. It utilizes 2 teams doing simple bounding techniques, but you will always have one team stationary at one time. Then you can encourporate more complicated clearing, such as stairs, limited danger areas (LDAs [roads, railroads, paths]), dead space, moving around obstacles such as couches, tables.
That wouldn't be too difficult. To create a garrison building option. AI should be able to interpret entry points, and windows in the building and occupy them properly. I would like a feature that allows the weapon system to be supported by the window sill.
Ok mwnciboo, I apologize. There are a lot of people on here who say things and have no experience to back it up.
Right now I am trying to create a scenario, and yes it is taking a long time to perfect but I also have a 630-5 job I have to worry about. For the sake of single/cooperative player scenarios, you can make triggers which provide the proper radio etiquette and actions from the AI that best fit how you want the situation to go down.
Right now, I have a trigger and a script (voice) which reads off the real way to call up rotary-winged support. They come in at the perfect time to destroy enemy vehicles that are a Quick Reaction Force to the area which you just assaulted. Now, for artillery support, it's a little harder because you have to personally call that in. I haven't figured out a way to make a trigger which brings up a voice script and the rounds impact at the right time.
Room clearing will require some nasty scripting. A trigger system could possibly be made, but it would require more options, such as Triggered by BLUFOR Conditions: Halted. So once blufor moves to the trigger and stops, the script will cause them to enter the room on predetermined paths. But this only works for user-made/single player/coop missions. Not for when ever you order your team to do so, but the capability is possible.
Couldn't have been said better armapirx
But, you are bringing up the individual soldier. You are saying that every soldier can assess a situation as if he was in charge.
Yes, of course you wouldn't walk off a cliff, and yes you would seek cover. The AI already do that. As a Team Leader, your job is to direct your men and their job is to follow to the teeth and execute with precision. They only need to think of one thing at a time unless it comes to something complicated such as room clearing where they need to fire while moving to their point of domination.
This is how we do it in real life. Barney style, because everyone who first joins the army has no idea what they are doing. It isn't to insult your inteligence, but if you aren't in the military with a job specified for engaging the enemy then you probably don't practice it, and therefore, do no know it.
Priorities Under Fire:
Battle Drill 2 React to Contact: Tasks, Conditions, and Standards: Your team is moving in a wedge and you are to stay alive.. too easy. Bang Bang Bang (enemy fire) 1. First thing you do is return fire while at the same time dropping to the prone 2. Call out distance, direction, description (3 D's) At this time it's called the mad minute. You are trying to gain fire superiority against the enemy by firing in cyclic rate of fire (750-900 rounds per minute, no pauses, barrel change every 1 minute) for 10 seconds. 3. Rate fire change called by the FIRE TEAM LEADER to rapid (45- 60 rmp, 5-6 second breaks, barrel change every 2 minutes) 4. TEAM LEADER CALLS everyone on line. Since your SAW/Light Machinegun is the highest casualty producing weapon system, he will move last. Rifleman moves first, then grenadier, then the AR. [AI should understand that they should still use cover] 5. Bound to the objective. The TEAM LEADER orders the movements of his team using 3-5 second rushes. [The AI must follow MOVE without stopping in the open. They do not have to have a new script telling them that their team leader and AR gunner are suppressing.] 6. Once the team is close to objective, the TEAM LEADER will call his team to get on line. Then will move through the objective and kill any enemy that they missed. 7. LOA (limit of advance). Once team is 35m from the enemy position, they will stop. The TEAM LEADER assigns sectors of fire and submits a LACE report to higher up (Liquid, Ammo, Casualty, Equipment)
For game purposes, I wouldn't go into any more depth than that. The AI is controlled by the team leader. Now, just because you don't want to take control of your team, doesn't mean they should be extremely smart because you don't know how to use them and you want them to make all of your decisions for you. In REAL LIFE (I can say that cause I do this for a living) soldiers do not think, they react. TEAM LEADERS think. If a soldier has a suggestion, they bring it up, but AI prbly won't be able to tell me something I don't already know.
Terms to consider for AI that aren't already in place. When initial contact is recieved, AI automatically switches to Cyclic rate of fire. When team moves into building if they make a new room clearing feature, they move to their point of domination (A pre determined path generated at the point of the order given to clear the room) and FIRE WHILE ON THE MOVE.
Other than that, I don't see how creating a smarter AI would benefit that specific situation. Now, the enemy AI should be smarter on the team leader level. But individually, no. The AI just needs to be changed in accordance with what is supposed to happen in REAL LIFE and what their goals should be (fire superiority and following movement orders/staying in formation).
I am not trying to insult you or tell you that you are wrong, I'm just telling you how we do it in real life, and I would like some of that to be revealed in this realistic military simulator so it can be used as a training aid by people in the army
You guys are talking about the AI like it should be an army of one.
The only problem with the AI in Arma 3 is that they have all of these working parts and all of these behavior scripts that they don't do exactly as they are told.
Hence, if you are moving long distances in a wedge, they fall behind or they get stuck on trees or rocks. If I get onto an objective and call them to get on line, they are slow, and act retarded. When I tell them t bound forward while my team gains fire superiority, they stop while standing up, to engage the target.
THE AI DOES NOT HAVE TO UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION. They should follow orders to the teeth because I know what I'm doing and I know what's going on.
In order for room clearing to be effective and I can rest safe assured that they will do their job, is if they follow their guidelines to the teeth. When they are in line in a stack ready to enter a room, the scripts should select the first man to go right, the second man to go left, third man to go right, fourth man to go left. Secondly, it should outline the edges of the room and generate paths to not stop until they have reached their final destination. Thirdly, they should identify targets and shoot on the move focusing their barrels in the proper direction. First man goes middle of the room to the right corner, second man middle to left corner, third man middle high, second man middle and then turn to the door.
AI DOES NOT HAVE TO BE SUPER SMART TO FOLLOW SIMPLE, PREDETERMINED, PREDICTABLE PATHS.
WHEN AI IS FIRING AT THE ENEMY, HE IS PUTTING ROUNDS DOWN RANGE LIKE A FUCKING PIG. WHEN HE IS MOVING OR REMAINING IN FORMATION (moving in a wedge long distance, getting on line under enemy contact or bounding) HE IS HAULING ASS
You have to understand that this is a simulator. If you take "statistics" and put them into a game you have a good foundation, but realism comes from experience in the field and how equipment actually handles under the stresses of combat and fatigue. Even in real life, humans have flaws. The job of the team leader is to continuously make sure his men are moving in the proper formation and not bunching up. Soldiers don't automatically change their distances and stances. Everything is based around the team leader. AI doesn't have to change, their relation to their team leader and strictly following orders is what makes everyone react appropriately
I typed in the search and they didn't come up. I actually know what I'm talking about and get paid to do it. You need at least one AI (assuming player is behind him). Clearing a room is very simple but it's a perishable skill
I would.be satisfied if.they just fixed the etiquette. The way I wrote it in the original post is how we do it in the army
Well I would say at least fix the radio etiquette and make it official
All you do is set the comms with the Battery priority over targets and directions so your AI team mates don't drown you out, after that it's one trigger with a fill in the blank. Standard battery size set to 3 guns, 2 shots ICM for spotted enemy infantry. Location will be an 8 digit grid. Second left mouse button calls fire for effect.
The whole "fun" in call for fire is that you might get the grid wrong and you can adjust the round on target, or you might get it right and you're the shit. The problem with arma is that you can put your cursor over the map and it tells you the grid, and you can see the enemy on the map in real time which makes it way too easy. So with that being said, a simple mouse click through the binos won't be any different unless you would have to call out the grid with out being able to see enemy on map or know the exact grid using the mouse cursor.
If they had those functions removed, then you could allow the player to use terrain association. Which is where skill and experience comes into play.
The simplicity of this feature can be as follows:
Fill in the blanks
Grid _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Direction _ _ _ _ mils
Enemy type ________
After those terms have been set, the scripts take over
Yes, it is. Sorry. I don't think I can close my own post
You never stand in a combat zone. The problem with combat and stealth behaviors is that they move slower than the player. Maybe if they just allow the players speed to override the AI's position it would be fine. The AI's #1 priority should be to stay in formation.
That looks awesome!! This needs to happen to continue Arma's role in being an authentic military simulator
Is it the rock's hit box? You can "see" past the rock, but you can't shoot past it?
Are you talking about through the scope or just the crossair? Because I know what you mean by the crossair getting stuck, but not sure what you mean by the scope. Before I give you my vote, I just want to clarify
First, I'd like to bring up the very first SOCOM US Navy Seals game on the PS2. I like how they show you where the bullet will hit because your weapon isn't lined up with the target, and your crossair stays where it is so it's easy to adjust from there. In the game, however, they used a big circle with a line through it. I think it would be best just to use a red dot or something which shows where your barrel is really pointing. That is the reason why that in Arma III your crossair disapears. Because the round is going to hit where the crossair is on your screen
Also, this is a little something that you might not have learnt about this game, but if you hold down Ctrl and hit the "W or S" it will change the level your player's stance is. So if you are trying to look over an edge and can't quite see and don't want to move forward to expose yourself, increase your height a little bit and you might not get as frustrated.
If run key is separate, you can make it a toggle or a hold. Cause I would rather toggle cause I run long distances
Yeah, it really becomes obvious to me now that combat run and combat walk should be overrided by the run key and separate keys. I was playing today and it was as if I naturally wanted to switch from combat walk to combat run and it went strait to run and it made me think of this issue. Just +1nd
The way you tried to explain it was confusing. A simple chart would do :)
Ok, so you mean like this (Keys are just examples)
(W+S) Combat Run(With crossair)
(W+S) Combat Walk
So basically, Run and Sprint are used the same way as separate keys, but maybe if sprint was so bad to use you would only use it in emergencies and run is good for long distance traveling.
Bump. Issue has been duplicated
Yeah, I should have set that in the priorities
Yeah, it definitely needs to be bumped
They have the stadia lines, they definitely do not resemble the proper distance in relation to the shoulder width, but I'm not sure if they use the proper range for where the bullet impacts. I included them both because they should all relate to each other.
Maybe just limit the time on the sprint. I know I couldn't keep up a sprint wearing full battle rattle. I do think it's useful when going from cover to cover, but then again so is combat speed. On my mouse, I use my two extra buttons to change my combat speed and my stealth speed. It's so much more convenient and I transition from normal to extreme slow for increased accuracy
The AI in Arma is probably going to take a complete reform if they are going to improve it. This was just one if the ideas that I thought could change it for the better. A feature has already been implanted into the game, and I've noticed a difference in AI behavior and you get a little camera shake when getting a near miss.
I've been making missions where I remove the AI's ability to heal themselves and reduced their health so it's more sport like. I'm going to be releasing my missions soon, once I feel like they are good enough to make a good impression.
I don't want the AI to be super easy to kill, but I can't set up the models to have vital organs do they can show realistic death qualities, like getting shot in a vital organ vs a lucky miss, so I made them all weak. This causes them not to run around and they fight back better. They don't always kill you right away. FIA is the OpFor unit I use, and FFA is the BluFor, if I'm not mistaken.
The benefit of this quality is that it needs to be adaptive. If you set attack waypoints, they need to act accordingly. Plus I think that there should be defensive AI, and an AI that bounds to your position or even tries to flank. This topic is extremely complicated, because you are trying to replicate the human ability to react to enemy contact appropriately and even use battle drills. A collective action rapidly executed with out applying a deliberate decision making process.
I don't want people to get the idea that this will cause the AI to be super human. I believe that if they fire more often and hit less it will simulate the real thing and be more fun. I really had to narrow this one down and I'm trying not to go off on a tangent right now
Aslo, I have been playing quite a bit and I like it when they chase you. Sometimes makes a game suspenseful. I just believe that there should be some sort of setting in the mission creation that tells the soldier to hold position. But suppressive fire will always be able to be added to any engagement. The AI could also split their forces in half at random, and choose who will suppress and who will advance.
Yes, but the way it can be solved is by using a different way to set up the scenario. I forgot to include sectors of fire which could help create a more feasible defense for the AI with out having to do much to them at all.
I'm sorry I'm so broad. It is a very difficult thing to perfect this sort of game. I hope that I am not spamming your forum.
I keep getting a screen that says your session had become invalid.
If you can change the title and description, that's fine by me.
There is a balance between realism and arcade. A sniper team has a completely different mission on the battlefield and is separated from the rest of the battalion in a line unit. Ballistics effect every gun, not just snipers. The great thing about Arma is that it opens up the playing field for long range shooting. Someone who is running and gunning won't get far from a high powered rifle firing from 800m away. By using real world data so that it is effective in the right hands, but can't be done by anyone who picks up a rifle and can shoot over a mile away just like in Battelfield 3???
America's Army is a great game. For being free, it is one of my most played games because of how close it resembles my job. Where AA lacks, Arma thrives. But for actual gameplay, America's Army has perfected their balance of realism and arcade. What they don't do is allow the player multiple choices on how the mission is conducted. The scale is its fault and does not give the range necessary for the addition for ballistics, sniper rifles, call for fire, call for rotary/winged support, casevac/medivac, UXO, reconnaissance, gear load out, types of ammunition, care under fire, METT-T, standard operating procedures, TTPs, movement techniques, team squad platoon company formations, battle drills, ambushes, convoys, miling targets, classes of fire, land navigation, radio etiquette, air assault, path finding, UAVs, ORPs etc. All the things that make an infantryman who he is, is not demonstrated in America's Army.
Vibration and recoil is a big thing also. If you are running and gunning, especially with a machinegun, there are many factors that influence where those rounds will impact the target. Recoil is determined by the size of the bullet, type of weapon, and how much training you have. Vibration from the previous round(s) fired will change the ballistics on a bullet as it leaves the rifle/gun. All machineguns have a non-freefloated barrel, which effects vibration. Each time a round is fired, the vibration is not consistent and will alter the trajectory of a bullet. Machineguns generally shoot a 6-9 minute of angle grouping at 100m, which is close to 6-9". After the first bullet is fired and as another follows, the vibrations create yet another inconstant variable. In order to counter this, we teach soldiers to fire 3-5 round bursts. When I play video games where the machineguns are more accurate than the rifles, it makes me sick. And if you can shoulder fire an M240B while running and jumping, please post the video because I don't think it's possible. When a machinegun is mounted, it turns into a 3 MOA gun, which is extremely devastating.
An assault rifle, specifically the M4 when used on a line unit while using a CCO is generally a 3 MOA gun. A sniper rifle can achieve a .5 MOA grouping! I don't think anyone needs help with that math problem.
An infantryman has a job that is far more versatile than any other. It uses level 1 of almost every job in the army, and yet they make games that sum it up in about 15 minutes. Sure, you can make Arma into a 15 minute game and still have fun while giving it all of these realistic parameters that it seems to permit. Arma is a simulator. It doesn't mean it can't be fun and interactive both at the same time. If Arma has the potential to simulate combat, and it doesn't, why put forth the effort in creating it and the time to play it?
Creating AI that are intelligent enough to choose a position that has key terrain advantage and hold it is too intelligent? I don't mind having fire fights with the AI, I think it's rather fun. I just don't like AI that shoot through trees, know that I'm behind them, or run aimlessly through the battlefield and then turn around and shoot me once in the head. There's nothing wrong with the AI in this game except that they run all over the place.
May 9 2016
How about also being able to rappel down boulders and a grappling hook for roof tops!!
This one was first, aye?
I am an active duty infantryman, and I strongly disagree with coed combat companies. Maybe if women are separate from men in different companies, it might not be a bad idea. But women should not get any special treatment and should be trained and held to the same standard.
In the military, women soldiers are not allowed to be in the field for more than 2 days with out a shower. A man can be in the field for as long as needed. Thus, giving fourth a problem with upholding the similar standard.
In women's defense, there are female soldiers in a battalion who see combat. Mostly on accident or because the mission put her in a tough spot. It all depends on the agenda of Bohemia on what type of units they want to use.
I personally don't like being told what to do by a woman when it comes to my profession. Especially if she hasn't served as long as I have. The grunts and noises.. if Bohemia does choose it, I hope they do a good job on making it R rated and not X
The only real reason why I am against this issue is because of the first line. There are no women in my company, and by god I will die before I see it happen. The amount of torment new recruits get, hazing, and there are even cases of rape in male only companies. If you want a new front line on how to reduce the amount of rape in the Army, vote no on coed infantry companies. Yes, women serve on the front line, they have been for as long as they could be attached to a combat battalion.
Do I believe they should be in game.. sure.. do I believe in my company.. No.
This is getting far off topic. You think there will only be two people playing this game who are in the military? This is a forum for improving the fundamentals and accuracy of this game, not bashing each other. You want to take it that low, send me an email and we can get addresses.
Strictly for game purposes only, the truth about what happens here in the army, and even the marines, is obvious. Give me all the good reasons why women aren't in combat MOS's right now and tell me I didn't cover them. People want to know what it's like to be in the military with out being there. That is why they have games and that is why I am telling you the reasons I believe they could be right or wrong. I have two opinions and multiple reasons behind them. Go about your bashing all day long, I want to make a difference here. I'm not going to sit here and waste my precious free time talking to someone who disrespects others in an unprofessional manner. You, my friend, seem to be lacking. A good infantry smoke fest is in order with your name on it.
Right, but that's the problem with having games with too much recoil and not enough. In real life when you fire at a target in kneeling and standing, the recoil puts you off target, but you don't have to adjust downward as you do ingame. Normal muscle memory buts you back in the approximate area where you previously shot, but not at the exact location due to the unpredictability of all the factors in play. Ingame, the recoil puts you up and to the right of the target but does not account for natural re-adjustment.
I propose a half Aim Dead Zone, half Screen recoil affect which puts you back to the approximate location of your last shot, but the screen has moved which causes you to have to readjust for longer range shots just like in real life.
In the Prone and/or when a weapon is supported, the recoil puts you back on target most times when firing in semi-automatic. When firing full auto in prone and/or in the supported position, the rifle/gun will come back to ground level but the second, third, fourth round, etc. will jump around in a cone, called cone of fire
Ok, I'm going to try to clear things up here. The recoil in this game is unrealistic, but the way the muzzle climbs makes you have to re-acquire your target after each shot just like in real life. So, on that note, the muzzle climb isn't a bad idea to leave the way it is.
When you shoot in any position other than prone, your rifle naturally sways back and forth. I've been taught to create sideways figure 8s while qualifying in the kneeling position. I honestly think it's just better to shoot when you get the target in your sights, but what ever.
In real life, there isn't as much recoil as there is in this game. For machineguns, we fire in 3-5 bursts because the gun shakes so much that the bullets will spray all around the target. When you lay in the prone or have the machinegun on its bipods, after every shot it will return to its original position after you fire each shot. If you fire more than 5 shots, the cone of fire will increase and you will lose the sights on the gun and it will be impossible to re-align your sights until you let go of the trigger.
We went to the range 3 days ago and took video while firing an M240B 7.62x51 belt fed machinegun. Enjoy.
After the very first shot is fired, the recoil in the weapon pushes the individual off his original sight alignment. The weapon comes right back down to the ground. After the first shot, the weapon oscillates vibrations and causes the next round to be fired with different acoustics effecting it. Causing the bullet to have a different trajectory. Each bullet has an unpredictable flight path due to a non-freefloating barrel, and continuous vibrations in the barrel. After the 3-5 shot, the sight alignment will be lost and bullets will land even further.
The cone of fire for a beltfed machinegun looks like a sideways V.
The cone of fire increases after the first shot, and normally the 5th or 6th shot. Recoil only comes to play when not in the prone. It is not possible to accurately fire the M240B from the shoulder.
United States Army Infantry
First Cavalry Division
2-8 Cav, 1 BCT, 1 CD
Ft Hood, Texas 76544
I believe that the recoil should be both screen movement and aim dead zone. When the radical moves separate from the screen, it's called aim dead zone. You can adjust it in your settings, but when it reaches its threshold, it gets choppy on the screen