Have combat pace mapped to 'c' key. If walking applying combat pace does not speed up movement. If jogging applying combat pace slows down movement like it should.
- Legacy ID
- Feature Request
True. And annoying.
Once you toggle walk with W+S, it's not possible to switch directly to tactical pace with C.
"Combat pace" should work the same as "Turbo" and get you out of toggle walk.
I hope this ticket gets noticed.
I agree, however, the problem isn't simply a press a button to speed up, and press a button to slow down. As it is now, pressing the change combat pace key (for you it's C) is changing between run and combat pace in the background, as you're walking. This should stay somewhat the same, except it should instead change between walking and combat pace in the background, as you're running. As Stalker 1 stated on the issue report I submitted (0005604), the control scheme should look like this.
"Ok, so you mean like this (Keys are just examples)
(W+S) Combat Run(With crossair)
(W+S) Combat Walk
If you could, please vote up 0005604, it is a bit of a dupe, but it has a more insight to how the game is actually reading the controls and what is actually happening when you press the change combat pace toggle key and the walk or run toggle key.
Yes, but the issue is overly simplified, it's not a matter of just the key slows you down, but doesn't speed you up, because that isn't what the key is coded to do. The change combat pace toggle key currently switches between two paces (1 and 2), while the walk or run toggle key puts you in a third pace (3) that overrides 1 and 2. While you are in 3, pressing the change combat pace key will still switch between 1 and 2, but you will still be in 3. when you press the walk or run toggle key, you will leave 3 and go into either 1 or 2, depending on which one you were in before you entered 3 and how many times you pressed the change combat pace toggle key while you were in 3.
As it is now, 1 and 2 is combat pace and run, while 3 is walk. it should be 1 and 2 is walk and combat pace, and 3 is run. Hopefully this makes more sense.
Instead of the current system of toggles, how about simply allowing players to map any of the movement speeds to individual, separate key binds? Or, better yet, introduce 'speed up' and 'slow down' controls that would allow players to transition through the four speed states in a step fashion (SPRINT <> RUN <> TACTICAL <> WALK). Finally, allow for these controls to be mapped to mouse buttons or scroll wheel. Along with other movement scheme problems, wouldn't it solve this one as well?
It could, but some players prefer the current scheme, and it is one that is in line with previous iterations of Arma, therefore coming over from Arma 2 to Arma 3 won't be as much of a leap. Even I prefer the current scheme of toggles, my only gripe is that they transposed the run and slow walk functions in the code.
You do however, bring up an excellent point; it should be up to the player. If they could keep this current scheme but fix the current problem we're discussing, and add the options of either separate key binds for each speed or using your proposed "middle mouse scroll speeds" control scheme, that would be outstanding.
They've already implemented something similar for the stances as far as your mentioned "map any movement speeds to individual, separate key binds". The "Stand up" "Crouch" and "Prone" keys are separate key binds specifically for each stance, whereas the "Up" and "Go prone" keys are toggle crouch and toggle prone functions, respectively. This is nice, as it provides options as to whether the player would like to use toggles, or simply bind keys to each stance; I myself prefer the latter. To do the same for movement speed could be just as effective.
The scroll speed type of speed control scheme you proposed was utilized in the early Splinter Cell games for PC, however you may find it would be counter intuitive for Arma 3 as Splinter Cell is a based on Stealth. There are very few times where you have to emergency run or sprint to cover or out of an area; in Splinter Cell you have the luxury of being more deliberate with your movement, whereas in Arma 3 you might find situations that you need to quickly press a button to go straight to your run, as that is the most intuitive to you.
Imo, the best would be to make combat pace the default speed and have three controls for walk, run and sprint, all overriding each other when toggled (as i suggested in #3752)
So assuming by your controls, tarciop, if you're in either walk, run or sprint, you would use the respective key of the pace you are already in to return to combat pace? This would work, however I can see this being just as counter intuitive to movement as you would essentially have to rely on 3 different keys just to return to combat pace.
Basically all they need to do is transpose the Function Calls (Code) for Slow walk and Run, so that Combat Pace switches between Combat Pace and Walk, and Walk or Run toggle turns on Run.
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I have yet another setup for movement:
W - general forward movement, with default jog speed
W + left shift - as long as I hold the shift, I slowly walk
W + side mouse button - as long as I hold the button, I run (until I get tired)
A, S, D - sidestep left, backwards, sidestep right, respectively; to make the picture complete
C - combat pace toggle and I know if it is currently ON or OFF, by watching how I hold the rifle during movement; also having a special procedure limiting the use of combat pace to a single situation, helps with knowing when it's active
Z - toggle between stand and prone, if crouching this lays me down
X - toggle between stand and crouch, if laying prone, this puts me into a crouch
It's basically the default setup, with only minor changes and it works perfectly. I always know precisely, which movement mode or stance I'm using and I have never pressed the wrong button or had any other unexpected outcome with it, because each function has it's own logical keypress. I never used W+S.
Edit: I forgot one thing. The fact, that the combat pace doesn't speed up walk, is very beneficial. Now I can stealthy and quietly walk around, while the combat pace allows for having a rifle with IR laser to be at the ready, without the need for actually aiming the weapon. When I need to quiclky move out, with the rifle still at the ready, I just relese the walk key and combat pace takes over.
If combat pace was overriding walking, I'd have to constantly toggle both the combat pace and walk - now it's enough to turn the combat pace ON and use only the press-to-walk key. This actually simplifies movement.
I hope this issue gets noticed and fixed too. Can replicate the same annoying behavior, which ruins the mapping of my keys.
From 'combat pace toggle' to 'slow toggle' no problem
from 'slow toggle' to 'combat pace toggle' nothing happens.
My tracker got eaten as a "duplicate" but I will repost my thoughts on this matter here.
Essentially the problem lies in the fact that the walk state being able to live under the tactical pace state at times. This of course would not be much of an issue if tactical pace or walk was used as hold function but becomes acute for a player that relies on both walk and tactical as toggles.
The simple fix would be to add the condition that any new state toggle removes the previous state toggles and treat run as the default behaviour. The following image is included to illustrate what I mean. At the end of the day it all boils down to the preservation of player intent.
Also, it would be really nice if getting into a vehicle removed all state toggles too!
Not sure I really understand the diagram, but I think we're on the same page more or less machineabuse. Have you seen my related suggestion 6724?
In the end I think it's the nature of what walking does, and what tactical pace does, that gives the illusion they do the same thing.
I think the original idea BIS had for tactical pace was just a 'state' the player could be in that would act as the fastest movement speed while still having their gun raised.
The confusion comes when this modifier becomes hidden while walking, as the act of walking, or even staying still causes your gun to raise in the exact same way - making it seem like this 'tactical pace' is simply a term for having the gun raised and ready to fire.
As it stands now I think the current movement system is terribly convoluted and could do with some refinement. I detail much of this in my ticket, but to summarise: The tactical pace is more than a combat modifier, in that it allows you to move at speed with your gun raised. It can also be used to switch between animations when you have your gun lowered. Is this really intended behavior? I think it makes things a whole lot more complicated.
Quickly drew up a diagram of my own..
Should be self-explanitory but if not:
Using the Tactical Pace key you can switch between 2 states: Combat and Combat tactical. Within each state there are 3 modes: Standing, Walking and Running - You switch between these with your usual typical movement keys WASD etc.
As you can see there is no overlap. The Tactical Pace Modifier sits in the middle and clearly divides these 2 states, which both have their own role and purpose.
The only thing I haven't drawn in there which I could've.. Another way you could get from 'Combat' to 'Combat tactical' would be to press your 'Fire' (default: LMB) key, but that's about the only exception to the divide - and would be there solely to keep the controls seamless and intuitive.
I've also drawn a version to show how I see the current implementation found in-game:
As you can see from that one there's definite overlap.
You can go through the Tactical Pace modifier but still be using modes from Combat Tactical, even though you're in Combat state.
Hopefully this makes the issue a bit clearer?
Your solution still doesn't solve the problem of toggles sitting on top of other toggles though. It would make sense if you could only ever hold a key to modify the state, but the moment you introduce toggles you encounter the same issue.
To summarise my solution in pseudocode;
IF [Toggle Walk] = 1; THEN [Toggle Combat Pace] = 0
IF [Toggle Combat Pace] = 1; THEN [Toggle Walk] = 0
This leaves players who wish to use momentary key presses as modifiers on top of toggles [1,1] free to do so while solving the problem for players who rely exclusively on toggles.
- "It would make sense if you could only ever hold a key to modify the state, but the moment you introduce toggles you encounter the same issue."
Then we must be discussing different issues..?
- "Your solution still doesn't solve the problem of toggles sitting on top of other toggles though."
Why is toggles on toggles a problem? Do you mean tactical pace and walk being toggled at the same time?
In my solution there is no chance of confusion as visual feedback is always given to the player, there are no bypasses or any need to remember what state you're in, or what key stops which state from being active (removal of all behind-the-scenes stuff working against the player)
If BIS adds 2 animations for Combat Stand and Walk, then the States can happily sit separated from one another, only to be swapped for one another when you press the Tactical Pace key.
There's nothing "living" under something else, and no "toggles on toggles". Since each state is consistent with Standing, Walking and Running modes, all it is is just a completely separate animation set to be in.
More flexibility, control and freedom to perform the action you want...