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Make sprinting realistic
Reviewed, NormalPublic


I'm aware of the ticket 3164 but I want to properly expand on it.

First - one thing that we need to get out of the way is "No I do not want ArmA2 movement and its issues back". There's one aspect with new movement that is however fundamentally wrong.

The problem goes much deeper than just too fast sprinting.

Inertia is completely absent from ArmA3 - thus

There is no noticeable transition between standing and sprinting.
There is no noticeable transition between sprinting and stopping.
You can turn 180 degrees while running full speed in 0.1 seconds. That's right - you can immediately run the other way like in some 2D platformer. Now try shooting a guy doing this trick.

This is one thing that ArmA2 flawed movement has over ArmA3's movement. Sprinting there had inertia and you couldn't instantly turn while running full speed. You also couldn't dodge bullets by simply hitting shift and pressing movement button - which is actually possible in ArmA3.


Legacy ID
Have Not Tried
Additional Information

When you see the flash it's not too late. Just hit Shift+W.

Event Timeline

metalcraze edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
metalcraze set Category to Movement.
metalcraze set Reproducibility to Have Not Tried.
metalcraze set Severity to Major.
metalcraze set Resolution to Open.
metalcraze set Legacy ID to 4059901465.May 7 2016, 12:54 PM

Agreed, the faster the movement (also goes for the run, but more for the sprint) the more inertia and such should affect. Gives people more reason to use the slower paces where these need to be used.

It's also worth adding that while you sprint (or even jog) you can't shoot, let alone aim in ArmA3, so it won't cause any issues with your aiming precision if sprinting was to have aforementioned authentic limitations.

Hit RMB or go into tactical pace or walk - and you still will have the same precision you have now if BIS is to fix this issue.

characters also stutter step after sprinting or running. If the character stops to rest, they should be able to spring or run afterwards not stutter step for a while then jog then sprint.

Maybe should limit the turning ability while sprinting? Or turn it off completely? I know I just finished playing a round. Was found in an open field on a hill. Multiple people probably shot 2-3 clips trying to hit me as I full sprinted and changed directions with just a flick of the wrist. They never shot me..

Not sure if the lacking illusion of inertia is due to animation transitions or because movement rates are alltogether too fast. But I'd like to see this tweaked.

Maybe just limit the time on the sprint. I know I couldn't keep up a sprint wearing full battle rattle. I do think it's useful when going from cover to cover, but then again so is combat speed. On my mouse, I use my two extra buttons to change my combat speed and my stealth speed. It's so much more convenient and I transition from normal to extreme slow for increased accuracy

Sprint (turbo) is a bit too fast and the animation is cycled way too fast in order to accommodate the pace. It looks a bit comical that way (Charlie Chaplin esque). The animation should fit a slightly slower pace better by making slower but larger steps, and when getting tired, the steps would become shorter and animation slightly slower, which would make you move slower.

Run/tactical and walk animations are perfect and seem authentic (mass and weight), but I'd slow them a tad bit down.

Also, running (or moving in general) up or down hills should affect the pace and fatigue very much.

I completely agree in principle. I also think sidestrafing is way too fast, especially since you can sprint and strafe at the same time. Combine that with extremely responsive turning and things can get pretty silly.

Lach45: "Was found in an open field on a hill. Multiple people probably shot 2-3 clips trying to hit me as I full sprinted and changed directions with just a flick of the wrist. They never shot me."

Yes, just observe players from a distance as they weave and zig-zag across a hillside at max speed while trying to dodge incoming fire. It just looks so very wrong.

But, here's the real problem: inertia and slow turn rates (ie., negative mouse acceleration) are what made A2's movement feel so clunky and unnatural in the first place. So, how do you propose to add inertia back in without returning to the drunken-gimp movement we had in A2? I wouldn't want to hamper the feeling of A3's CQB experience, for instance.

I'd suggest that the ultimate answer is probably not A3's current complete lack of inertia or A2's overdone inertia, but rather a more nuanaced system that transitions from A3 style movement at slower speeds, through slight inertia and turn rate restriction while employing tactical paces, to A2 style inertia and manueverability for sprinting. Also, acceleration lag when transitioning up to run and sprint should be introduced (something even A2 lacked, I believe). So, for CQB it should still be quite easy to move through tight, urban environments at a slow or tactical pace, but if you're going to insist on sprinting around indoors you're probably going to start running into things just like you would IRl. In outdoor spaces, OTOH, you'll be able to move very quickly through open terrain, but won't be able to deek, dodge and bounce around like a videogame sprite while doing so. Thoughts?

You wouldn't sprint through houses anyway and I'm not asking to add inertia to walk and combat pace - aka speeds where you can still aim and shoot. They are fine.

Only to sprinting pretty much. Sprint should be like a last-resort to escape or ditch something, or cross a dangerous street since IRL you wouldn't be able to move like an Unreal Tournament player if you will sprint full-steam, especially in gear.

It just shouldn't be an exploit like it is now.

Even arcade shooters limit sprinting turning speed after all.

It APPEARS that in dev build 0.55.103923 all non-walk speeds got nerfed but without any turning change; maybe someone hasn't found out how to differentiate turn speeds between the movement speeds and thus it's "one turn speed for everything"? One might hope that RV4 doesn't work like that, but who knows.

ArmA 2 actually had animations when moving from a static position, such is the case of crouch and then just moving somewhere at normal jog speed (there were no other speeds then that would conserve the stance).

I would like to see something like that implemented in A3 with the exception that it should be a lot more fluid, and rather than being for just movement in general, it should be when switching to a sprinting speed.

Either way, would really like to see some inertia added. Seems odd for my character to just stop without any problems after a long (and quick, I add) sprint.

The player/character should be considerably less manoeuvrable when sprinting.

The devs got it right. Hustle speed (?)is right, walking is right, sprinting is right. One cannot sprint for very long (100m tops) hustle for more than a click before you feel weigh of the ruck digging into your shoulders, with more land traverse being at a quick walk. The only thing of note, is that they do run out of steam before their time and don't gain it back fast enough. It's nitpicky to want it perfect, but that's what's it all about (right). In a nut shell, they should catch their breathe a little faster after a jaunt or even a sprint. They are exasperated too soon. PS - I ran my soldier (no sprints) 2.0km (1.2 miles) to the Kamino FBS. Up and down steep inclines, as well as along the road when I could. 8 minutes in full battle gear (minus spent ammo). That seems about right when you factor in fear and adrenaline. A little tweak to how bad they're sucking wind after a run up hill while still fresh and it's prefect!

EDcase added a subscriber: EDcase.May 7 2016, 12:54 PM

Regarding turning speed:

Don't want to slow down reaction speed of mouse. (ie no damping on rotation)

The way it should work is that you can move the mouse quickly left and right but this moves your head and weapon (arms) and your body follows.

So your view would change quickly as it does now but your direction change would be a bit longer as in reality. So in MP players would not be seen to make instant direction changes.

A bit like an auto-centering aiming deadzone.

Lol I made a topic on this, but turns out, you already did, perhaps I can help the OP explain further.

In real life, when you are in a full sprint. You cannot stop immediately even if you wanted to. Your body will have to slow down its momentum, this results in you usually taking a few extra steps before you completely stop.

You also cannot get to maximum speed of a sprint immediately when you start your sprint. You have to take a few steps and gradually you build up momentum before you reach your maximum speed. [^]
Example of character running that uses momentum.

Right now as in game, the player behaves more like a machine than human being. When they choose to sprint, they go at a fast speed immediately, and when they stop, they instantly stop.

During game-play, if you find a enemy soldier standing, he can immediately get into a full sprint. It appears more like a toggle of speed than fluid acceleration.

In real life, if you are shooting at a target that is standing still, you do not expect your target to immediately fly forward into a fast speed. Even if you missed your first shot, you would have enough time to fire another one before he would be able to get into a sprint.

Bottem line,

Player Movement Speed Needs Gradual Acceleration and Deceleration

Crierd added a subscriber: Crierd.May 7 2016, 12:54 PM

This would be very nice. A good example of this is GTA 4.

+1 to gotmiki!

EDcase, your idea is interesting but the main pitfall to implementation would seem to be how... seemingly "we were obligated to do this so we're not going to put effort into it" the current deadzone implementation is.

Haven't they added this now?

I was Ok with this ticket on all, but since they changed the speed of sprinting now there's no real difference visually between sprinting and jogging, I know that there's gear, it's heavy, so actually the sprinting is too slow or the jogging is too fast, in real life you can feel visually more difference between jogging and sprinting. When you jog I'm not really sure that the weight affects the speed ingame, the fatigue yes, the same for sprinting. So I was OK with all this ticket but now I really have a problem with this difference of speed not really realistic, the best think if it's possible is to have a variable speed for jogging to control the fatigue by the speed and a sprinting at the max based on the training of the soldier and the weight of gear, but if not possible, to have a jogging depending on training and weight of the soldier.

What do you think about this? On all other points I'm OK with this ticket, but with this changement of speed it's seems less realistic now.

Speeds were never a real issue. As stated in the description the real issue is f.e. "Hey you can dodge bullets by sprinting and quickly doing 180 degree turns because you lose no speed while doing so (even though even BF3 slows you down for that behavior)? Let's limit the running speed!". Not really a sensible solution.

Alas the way of BIS fixing issues in ArmA3 seems to be about pushing more annoyances on the player expecting players not to exploit the game because of minor inconveniences (which of course will NEVER work) instead of making stuff matter through the gameplay limitations.

Speed "fixes" they did seem to be no different from fatigue "fixes" where they slap blur, blackout vignette and loud breathing which annoy, but not prevent anything - instead of doing it right.

Goomer added a subscriber: Goomer.May 7 2016, 12:54 PM

I think seperating the direction you look and the direction you move to, would properly account for innertia and not brake controls and make it feel like you're steering a 500 pound bag of sand (negative mouse acceleration, brought to you by satan himself). Sort of like as if you're running on ice? Very much like GTA 4's character controls. Just don't fuck with the mouse-controls. Becuase that's where the fun ends.

I believe AI aiming has been improved so that sprinting can't magically dodge bullets anymore.

its not about's about multi-player....and its fucking ridiculous that this isnt one of the most important issues that needs to be fixed with this game ASAP.

I understand.

The issue is that "sprint" is not actually sprint. In stead of these levels:
Walk > Tactical Pace > Patrol Jog > Standard Jog/Slow Run > Run/Sprint
we should add > "Dash" and rename the others. Holding shift doesn't make you sprint. It makes you run. The standard pace is a jog, not a run.
"Sprinting" should be a dash, not a moderately fast run. Sprinting is what you do to cross a street under fire.
Running is what you do when you need to move in a hurry. Typical firefight pace.
Jogging is what you do for normal movement, squad movements/tactics/maneuvers, typical infantry employment.
Patrol Jog is a noncombat speed; it's what you do when you need to walk to base and want to get there faster.
Tactical pace is for stealth and walking with weapon raised.
Walking can either be patrol walk, or for stealth.

tl;dr - we need something faster than a sprint.

I'm up voting this because I aggree that it's just stupid trying to predict someone's movement and hit them at extreme close ranges, something that feels like it should be the easiest thing in the world.

However, I can't imagine of a way for BIS to improve this without making it clunky and frustrating to control. It'll always be a trade off between realism and fun in this case I believe. The arma 3 movement system feels so clean and crisp when compared to arma 2 system, it would be a shame to sacrifice that.

If it's not clunky and frustrating to control in real life, no reason for it to be clunky and frustrating to control in-game, while still being restricted to basic physical limitations of a person. Even if implemented on a rather basic level, something still needs to be done to prevent instant acceleration which allows the unrealistic dodgy maneuvers.

The biggest problem with fixing this is that people are so used to FPS games (which seem to have practically the same character physics rules since the first DOS FPS game), that giving them anything difference would automatically be "difficult to control" and "feel wrong". So much time at the computer would make real life "feel wrong". It doesn't mean that they are. The real test should be whether the changes make the soldier move around more similar to how a real solider would.


EDIT: If you want realistic sprinting, go sprint outside. This is a game, and sacrifices have to be made in order to make it playable.

Nobody wants schfiftyfive different ways of running, and keybinds to go with them.

Leave your sickly obsession with realism at the door and try to understand game design -- You can't make some things too complicated, or implement too many needless features, or you risk alienating large portions of your playerbase.

Reality is not perfection, it's just a model.

tl;dr - Sprinting is fine, l2p.

I don't consider people strafing left and right to avoid getting shot "playable". Sacrifices need to be made to your arcade needs so that the game actually plays like it has soldiers fighting and not 1992 FPS characters.

It doesn't have to be complicated. It's pretty simple physics that need to be implemented to make moving more smooth and less jumpy.

If it's so simple then do it yourself.

This would be a momentous addition. I believe the new game squad has such a system.

scft added a subscriber: scft.May 7 2016, 12:54 PM
scft added a comment.May 5 2015, 10:17 AM

The movement is too much inertious and unresponsive as it is. It is obvious in CQB or in Red 1 firing drill - you need to change your direction quickly, but if you're already doing that, this isn't going to be fast. You can struggle and use mouse, but it's pretty hard.
I was going to upvote a ticket that would call to resolve that, but now that i found a ticket that wants this to be made even harder, i doubt creating my own would be contributing...

Koala added a subscriber: matthys.
Koala added a subscriber: Koala.

Following ticket is a duplicate: T74544

Fri13 added a subscriber: Fri13.Mar 15 2018, 11:49 PM

Still odd this is open.

Adding a weight via inertia would improve the mechanic a lot.

Limiting the turning radius is the way to go and disable side stepping. This way you can sprint full speed but you can't just change direction with flick of mouse. As well adding a speed change when turning harder, so you can do a fairly tight 90 degree turn with example 2-3m radius turn, but your speed will lower while doing so and character will lean inside the "curve". This would allow to sprint fast tight corridors or streets or in forest while avoiding the trees but still slower your speed so you are easier threat, but make a feeling that you are actually sprinting instead walking.

Same way is required for speed changes faster or slower, acceleration should make character lean forward and take a couple smaller steps before going to full sprint.
Deceleration should instead require few steps to come halt and require to stand slightly upward/backward.

Add stamina system so that less stamina means slower acceleration and longer stopping distance. Like instead 3 steps, you need to take 5-6 steps to stop.

So character dynamic as weight/rag-doll is required. Such system would as well later allow to add a mechanic where when you are hit while sprinting, your character might tumble and roll/fall on ground. Or just slow down while taking couple recovering steps before falling down. As many soldiers in real world getting shot has told that they didn't feel the trauma after impact for few seconds, even 10-15 seconds because shock and just incapable to understand why they can't stand or run before pain hit.

But would a such dynamic weight system make the character "less me" and more "3rd person player"? I would like to see a slight leaning and slow acceleration with quick stepping to start sprinting and then need to stop sprinting before street corner or open area so I don't just sprint in full speed in danger.
It would as well make all crossings of open areas more dangerous as you need to get little space to get up to speed instead just sprint right away cross.