I have been testing all the weapons available in the Alpha, and almost all of them have an INSANE recoil that makes the semi-automatic mode useless, it almost seems like you are shooting with just one hand.
- Legacy ID
1- Take a weapon
2- Stand Up
A significant reduce of the recoil is advised
Always fire in bursts, the recoil in this game is amazing.
It actually claims patience and self-control when firing upon a target in the distance. Instead of spray and pray hold fire, repoint your aim and refire again.
Its not like cod or whatever and thank god for that.
Let me see if I can explain this better. First, we are not talking recoil here. I wish people would stop calling it that. If you were to mount any rifle on a roller skate and pull the trigger the RECOIL will cause the roller skate to go straight back until the energy ran out. Recoil is straight back so were not talking about that.
What we are talking about is muzzle rise, barrel lift, or what ever you wish to call it. The reason the weapon rises up is because the butt of the weapon is in your shoulder and because your shoulder cannot absorb all of the recoil energy the remainder takes the path of least resistance which is upwards with butt as the pivot point. The reason the muzzle moves to the right (for right handed shooters and left for left handed shooters) is due to the rotation of the shoulders/upper body while in the kneeling, standing position. In the prone position (as long as your position is correct) the muzzle does not move to the right is because there is more body weight and back strength behind the weapon.
The reason the sight picture comes back to the original (or close to the original) is because when you hold a rifle properly (remember we are assuming the game soldiers are trained properly) your muscles are (for lack of a better word) locked into place. This locking has tremendous strength and resists allowing the weapon to move as much as they can. So when you fire they naturally, and without conscious effort by the shooter, bring the weapon back into its original position (or close to it).
I don't mean any offence to anyone but you do not have to consciously bring the weapon back into aim in RL and therefore you should not have to do it in a simulator like Arma.
Sorry, I wish I was a little more knowledgeable about the scientific aspects of Physics but there you have it in as simple terms as I can use.
After firing weapon, under its own weight, down anyway, but only with the hands, as they will always hold a gun. Its a question of the gameplay - leave it to the conscience of your mouse\hands, or use a combat experience of your soldier. The lastone can lead to the fact that you simply specify the target and your soldier will do the rest.
The higher is the soldier, the softer his body, so at long cutoff accuracy drops. Why put something else in this simple and realistic scheme?
And I found that the accuracy is not as strong and. Be understood that the shooting from the shoulder, standing, weighted weapon with a high rate .. is a series of inconveniences.
Vertical muzzleclimb in that strength is stupid. Do you guys really want to play babysitter for your soldiers arm instead of going for mission objectives? The enemy AI is laughing about things like recoil or muzzleclimb.
Yes, we do want to babysit stuff like that, this is why we play Arma/OFP for the last 10 years. Besides that, we want to "basysit" things such as having a choice of tactical reaload; manual or realistic if automated, cocking of the gun; interactive sights, which you can adjust; reload and fire speed depended on a type of the feed, not some archetype of the weapon and etc.
Enemy AI in Arma2 was quite ok and challenging before tons of winnings on forums turned them into a half-retarded half-blind automatons. Their accuracy is one of the few handicaps that they have against players.
Being USMC SF we spend a lot of time shooting (CMP shoot, CQB shoots, etc.) We shoot, shoot, and then when after that we shoot some more. People trying to compare the in-game recoil to RL and saying it's fine have either never handled a 5.56 caliber AR before or they did and they simply had no idea what they are doing. The recoil in ARMA3A at the moment is absolutely ridiculous. Shooting the assault rifles in game on semi is like shooting a 7.62 one handed in RL. I can easily fire a hammer pair with an M4/M16 in RL and keep my sights on target with absolutely no problem, so I don't understand why ARMA 3 is trying to portray these high-speed operators and the weapons handling resembles that of a 12 year old. The current state of it makes the game almost unplayable (or at least extremely not enjoyable) in my point of view. I want to play A3 for it's realism, not it's blatant disregard of it.
I'm sorry if you disagree with me and think that the recoil is just fine and that's your opinion / preference. I'm just saying that from a very experienced view on the subject there is nothing "realistic" about the recoil.
Lets say the muzzle climb is realistic . I've never fired these specific weapons in real life so lets pretend these armys chose weapon systems that are less manageable than their predecessors(ARMA 2 weapons). The fact remains that if (IRL) someone fires a single shot at a target ,yes the muzzle will climb but the only thing preventing the muzzle from coming back down would be the shooter not allowing gravity to do its job.So the game currently has us fighting our soldiers unnatural decision to prevent the muzzle from returning to its original level.This needs a fix.
I believe that the recoil should be both screen movement and aim dead zone. When the radical moves separate from the screen, it's called aim dead zone. You can adjust it in your settings, but when it reaches its threshold, it gets choppy on the screen
recoil is a bit high for the calibre, having fired various rifles in real life the recoil is a bit excessive especially for the 6.5, 7.62 is fine but 6.5 is way too high, especially for semi auto.
the 6.5 rifles kick like shotguns, realistically a small calibre like the 6.5 shouldnt be kicking as hard and should be accurate to 300-500m, please reduce recoil on the 6.5mm
I seriously can't understand why so many people voted against this horrific muzzle climb. Seriously shooting the weapon should be the most realistic thing in a military simulator and it doesn't simulate it well at all. Period.
The reason is simple:
in real life when you fire a gun your body reacts to the recoil and puts the muzzle back to where it was before the shot (with some error threshold).
In the game this body reaction must be done via mouse input.
Old ArmA builds (ArmA1 and 2, for istance but also OFP and VBS) had the auto-recenter feature that simulated this body behavior.
In my opinion, as well as all the other down-voters, that behavior has to be an user input and not an automatic mechanism as it was in the previous games and in most of moder arcade-ish shooters
I understand that but when you shoot a gun you don't have to think about that stuff. Nor do I want to when I'm playing a video game. If a "arcade" game like bf3 can have more realistic muzzle climb than a military simulator then something is wrong. I'm not saying by any means that bf3 is more realistic as a game but when it comes to firing the weapon it actually feels more like shooting a gun. We shouldn't be making excuses ( drag the mouse down) yeah I do it, and its annoying as all hell. Gun should fire, move slightly up and to the right and come back. It's just that simple.
Edit: This is about the amount of muzzle climb anyways. Which is ridiculously to high to be a simulation. If I HAVE to bring the mouse back to the original place than so be it, but i don't want to have to do it from 8 feet over the guys head after a single shot.
BF3 isn't more realistic !!!
It's an automatic counter-recoil, how can it be realistic ????????
Try shooting a weapon, even a 9mm without putting strenght in your hands and see where the weapon ends up to ..
How about you assholes stop bumping this Issue? If the Dev's want to use his suggestion then so be it, if not then sucks for us now stop bitching. I am getting like Emails about this everyday.
+1@ OfficerHotpants & +1@ squishall:
I am a former marine myself. I was not any type of special operator as I was a FRO with SCCo/HqBn/2nd MarDiv (Now deactivated). However, I do have much experience with belt-fed machine-guns, in addition to selective-fire rifle & carbines. That being said, the muzzle climb in this game is insane.
I see people saying that the current level of muzzle-climb is "just fine" along with suggesting that we use our mouse to fight the recoil. There is a huge problem with this... You are not supposed to fight with your weapon. The control issues presented in this game (As well as the previous ARMA releases and the OFP:CWC/RES releases) are highly unrealistic.
Dragging your mouse down in order to (attempt) returning to your NPA presents a couple of problems... The first is that you will eventually run out of mouse space. The second is that you have to lift your mouse off the pad in order to prevent it from going off the edge. This is ridiculous especially when in close quarters (up to 25 yards +/-) and on semi. Sure the prone position is a much more stable firing position in comparison to standing, however in the CQ scenario; going prone will just get you killed.
The muzzle-climb issue needs to be fixed. I am not suggesting that there should be zero muzzle-climb, or that the projectiles from the weapon should continually impact the same exact spot. I am suggesting the weapon should “return” to its approximate NPA especially when on semi. In addition to that, the muzzle climb needs a severe reduction.
Totally agree with Lighthammer!
I can understand the climb when fired full auto but in reality youll never get to the point of facing the sky while shooting semi auto/burst. Also the weapon should return to its former position within like 1-2 secs after the climb, or rather least close to it instead of facing upwards
That damn unrealistic recoil of ArmA3! I don't want to compensate for it like soldiers do, I want to be like these guys!
What is this - they end up with a gun pointing at a sky and even hitting them in the nose after only one shot? Unrealistik!
Ok, I'm going to try to clear things up here. The recoil in this game is unrealistic, but the way the muzzle climbs makes you have to re-acquire your target after each shot just like in real life. So, on that note, the muzzle climb isn't a bad idea to leave the way it is.
When you shoot in any position other than prone, your rifle naturally sways back and forth. I've been taught to create sideways figure 8s while qualifying in the kneeling position. I honestly think it's just better to shoot when you get the target in your sights, but what ever.
In real life, there isn't as much recoil as there is in this game. For machineguns, we fire in 3-5 bursts because the gun shakes so much that the bullets will spray all around the target. When you lay in the prone or have the machinegun on its bipods, after every shot it will return to its original position after you fire each shot. If you fire more than 5 shots, the cone of fire will increase and you will lose the sights on the gun and it will be impossible to re-align your sights until you let go of the trigger.
We went to the range 3 days ago and took video while firing an M240B 7.62x51 belt fed machinegun. Enjoy.
After the very first shot is fired, the recoil in the weapon pushes the individual off his original sight alignment. The weapon comes right back down to the ground. After the first shot, the weapon oscillates vibrations and causes the next round to be fired with different acoustics effecting it. Causing the bullet to have a different trajectory. Each bullet has an unpredictable flight path due to a non-freefloating barrel, and continuous vibrations in the barrel. After the 3-5 shot, the sight alignment will be lost and bullets will land even further.
The cone of fire for a beltfed machinegun looks like a sideways V.
The cone of fire increases after the first shot, and normally the 5th or 6th shot. Recoil only comes to play when not in the prone. It is not possible to accurately fire the M240B from the shoulder.
United States Army Infantry
First Cavalry Division
2-8 Cav, 1 BCT, 1 CD
Ft Hood, Texas 76544
@squishall its called all recoil in german and im sure in many other languages too , thats why people type recoil but we all know what they mean.
@OfficerHotpants yeah made the same feedback report about this completely unrealistic muzzle climb and it got downvoted by idiots who never fired a weapon or dont know how to do it properly...
@kid arma 2 didnt have what you say , it was the same bs you fired whole mag mith m4 you were looking into the sky (its in all BI games cant remember about flashpoint but im sure it was the same) and you dumbass and other downvoters just dont understand that this muzzle climb after each shot is extremely overdone and not realistic and yes bf3 is more realistic recoil wise even bf3 has to much climb on some weapons the g36 for example...
@metalcraze your vid shows girls children and guys who dont know how to shoot a gun properly and they all fire a much larger caliber
"The recoil in this game is unrealistic, but the way the muzzle climbs makes you have to re-acquire your target after each shot just like in real life. So, on that note, the muzzle climb isn't a bad idea to leave the way it is."
The problem is, game muscle reflex does not come close in comparison to muscle reflex in real life. Additionally, the muzzle climb in game does come close to the muzzle climb in real life. Especially when the MX series is considered.
The following videos show rapid fire and full auto with ACR's (The rifle that the MX is based on):
Little kid with an ACR:
The bullpup rifles & carbines in this game demonstrate muzzle climb characteristics that are just not seen on bullpups in real life. Bullpups are VERY stable even without a compensator. As for machines guns... When I saw the muzzle climb on those (in-game) I just left them alone.
I was with Small Craft Company (SCCo/HqBn/2nd MarDiv). We operated on boats... RAC's (Riverine Assault Craft), Raiders, Zodiacs (Handled by our LF6F element). I was on a RAC as a port-side gunner on an M240G. The first volley I fired out of the LMG MX took me back to the first time I fired a 240 from a boat...
That was dealing with a moving boat and swells... About the only time I had to fight in order to make the weapon keep firing in the approximate target area.
Right, but that's the problem with having games with too much recoil and not enough. In real life when you fire at a target in kneeling and standing, the recoil puts you off target, but you don't have to adjust downward as you do ingame. Normal muscle memory buts you back in the approximate area where you previously shot, but not at the exact location due to the unpredictability of all the factors in play. Ingame, the recoil puts you up and to the right of the target but does not account for natural re-adjustment.
I propose a half Aim Dead Zone, half Screen recoil affect which puts you back to the approximate location of your last shot, but the screen has moved which causes you to have to readjust for longer range shots just like in real life.
In the Prone and/or when a weapon is supported, the recoil puts you back on target most times when firing in semi-automatic. When firing full auto in prone and/or in the supported position, the rifle/gun will come back to ground level but the second, third, fourth round, etc. will jump around in a cone, called cone of fire
Guys need A.C.E.K.I.D. - do not touch the basic game. Strange, but in good position, when the hands on knees and your body became hard spring - i dont feel recoil. When pron - too. So whats the point?
The arguments about muscle memory funny to read but the developer can peck on this nonsense.
For anyone that has presented a case in support of the muzzle climb in this game... How many of you have experience with firing suppressed weapons? This is one point where I can really take the wind out of your sails when it comes to muzzle climb within the game...
I agree on way too much recoil, atleast for the 5.56 weapons. I've been shooting most calibers in my military service and we rarely fired just one round at a time, more often atleast 2-3 rounds in a fast speed for each target and the recoil climb between those rounds were negligible for short and medium distances.
Yes! Thats why I stated the following:
"The muzzle-climb issue needs to be fixed. I am not suggesting that there should be zero muzzle-climb, or that the projectiles from the weapon should continually impact the same exact spot. I am suggesting the weapon should “return” to its approximate NPA especially when on semi. In addition to that, the muzzle climb needs a severe reduction."
I spent four years in a recon bn. I fired M16A2, M16A2/M203, SAW, BARRETA M9, MP-5, MEU(SOC).45 COLT 1911, and the M60E3.
I have yet to find any game to capture exacly how these weapons fired in my hands.
I do feel however, that the Arma series does not come close to my personal experiences. I am sure when the devlopers went to ranges to get the feel for how weapons work, this is how they experienced it.
Now maybe the developers can do 40 pulls ups and a hundred push-ups and their upper body strength is off the charts, but I kindly don't think so.
Soldiers have strong upper body's for a reason. One of reason is weapons handling and control.
This game doesn't represent it accuratly. doesn't mean the game isn't fun, after all it is a game, but no, it is not accurate.
Lets see if they decide to listen to the community and address it.
I would bring it down about half of what it is today.
As stated in this entrance - its not the recoil per se thats to hight - but the fact that the weapon doesnt fall back.
I dont want to see a weapon which resets at 100% the same spot as it was before since i like that you have to adjust after each shot- but at least it should drop back a bit.
It seems this shall simulate that the soldier himself is the one who forces the weapon back at the target - and therefore the player should do this too. But your weaponcontrol in reality is much much greater than whats possibly with a mouse.
So in the end: I am all for high recoil but I dont find the current system 100% satisfying.
Especially the LMGs are ridiculous.
I would actually like to see the 'fall back' feature, especially when playing with lower fps it takes over a second to get the crosshair on target again even in low crouched position, only prone is doable atm.
I kinda get laugh from all these "It's fine as it's because it's realistic!" etc. comments. Why? As a person who has military training and used 7.62 RK62 (Finnish army's AR, based on AK47) as AR for whole service time I don't see anything "realistic" in ArmA 3's recoil model.
It's clear that devs want players to 1. Use prone / "sitting-prone" all the time so we can shoot fast and accurate shots to over 50 meters away 2. Constantly keep pulling mouse downwards so we don't aim at sky after 3 shots from 6.5 mm rifle becase of "realistic" recoil. Maybe recoil is borderline realistic, but that is thrown out of window when player character has zero intention of keeping weapon in level without A) Certain stance that removes recoil as a whole from the rifle B) Constant player input and mouse dragging.
If we want to talk about "realistic recoil" then there should be very little of muzzle climb even on 7.62 rifle when single firing and standing. It doesn't kick like mule and is easy to control. Full auto sure causes trouble handling wise, but at least we were trained that full auto isn't really option outside of suppression situations.
TL;DR: ArmA 3 dosen't have realistic recoil modeling because even 7.62 rifle dosen't kick like that when fired, while standing, if trained soldier is firing it. Is it better than e.g. Bf 3? Yes. Realistic? Hardly.
I posted on the weapon sway issue this same comment. I have had the pleasure of visiting the weapons range at marine air station yuma and putting a lot of rounds downrange of many of the weapons, basically every type the USMC uses including L/HMG's. I have a friend with an M4 variant which I have personally purchased and fired hundreds, if not thousands of rounds (So expensive!!) I have also spent thousands of dollars and years visiting closed ranges and shooting attempting to shoot every weapon ever made. I can tell you standing up using an acog type scope and looking at a target anywhere within a couple hundred meters and whilst controlling my breathing I can keep barrel on target quite easily, after multiple shots. Using the M4 I could hit a chest sized rock at around 200 meters mountain top to mountain top using nothing but a ACO and firing about 1 round per second or two seconds. Recoil was negligible after I had fired enough rounds to account for it. I find after I have gotten the handle of a specific weapon recoil is automatic and my sight picture always returns without any effort whatsoever. Its natural.
If you try to get an RCO in game on one of the rifles, zoom in on a target less than a hundred meters away while standing or crouching the figure 8 weapon sway is so exaggerated it makes it ridiculous. A trained (US) soldier can maintain most of this focus whilst under fire IRL. Yet in-game I am about as accurate as I would be standing with one leg. This is very much my opinion and up for debate, but I believe the sway and recoil, is a bit exaggerated.
I did 3 years in ROTC and have fired a couple of different military rifles and pistols. Recoil is fine and realistic.
If you want to hold a rifle with no recoil, play Crysis or COD.
Though I agree about the weapon sway. It is a little extreme
I would also like to note that anyone who hasnt should watch the vids lighthammer posted. There are a good insight into how an active and practiced operator handles a weapon. Very much different to what we have in game.
Im noticing all the people who have really handled weapons are saying how unrealistic it is, all the people with limited/no experience are saying its fine. Well since there are far more people playing this game who have never put significant rounds downrange I feel this issue is destined for failure.
"Im noticing all the people who have really handled weapons are saying how unrealistic it is, all the people with limited/no experience are saying its fine. Well since there are far more people playing this game who have never put significant rounds downrange I feel this issue is destined for failure."
I wouldn't say that. I'm an experienced firearm's user living in Texas. I also own an AKM and a Colt .45 . I haven't had much time to play this game, and need more time to really judge it, but recoil seems pretty decent for now. I'll give it another look.
"I agree on way too much recoil, atleast for the 5.56 weapons. I've been shooting most calibers in my military service and we rarely fired just one round at a time, more often atleast 2-3 rounds in a fast speed for each target and the recoil climb between those rounds were negligible for short and medium distances."
For those who don't know, these are NOT 5.56 weapons. They're 6.5 Grendel.
They aren't 6.5 Grendel. It's some caseless round with a 6.5mm projectile. Could be anything.
I think the problem with the recoil is it's too slow. It's just not snappy enough. It's also too unpredictable. There's really no problem with the amount of muzzle rise the way it is.
once again nord shows he's got taste and insight into realism, not just "gameplay" and balancing philosophy that anyone can pull out of their ass.
the recoil needs to drop automatically, definitely not at the same spot, but it needs to drop. everything about physics, the way soldiers are trained to fire, and the nature of rifle recoil supports this suggestion.
but once again butt monkeys will neg down anything if it destroys their fantasy image that harder=more realistic.
@Logan either you are extremely weak or just a kid who wants to impress with his fantasy military experience if you say that the muzzle climb is fine ... it is not
even if the rounds are 6.5mm grendel (never fired them myself) i fired a G3 7.62x51mm and it has less muzzle climb and wikipedia says that the grendel round delivers more energy and a more stable flight path at the same or slightly higher recoil as the 5.56 round.
Tovarisc sounds like a guy who had real military duty and i agree with him
3 years in ROTC eh? Thats pretty hardcore... You fired a couple different military rifles and pistols eh? Wow dude... Color me impressed! LOL!!!!!
OK I'll stop joking now... You have what I call LIMITED experience. Of course this is based on what you have stated. I own an AKM variant as well... I also own a .45 ACP pistol. Additionally, I a former marine. Which AKM variant do you own? Which "Colt" model do you own?
The fact that you are not specific with this stuff leads me to doubt your statements (as well as your statement about the in-game muzzle rise being realistic). I have a 95 Maadi RPM (One of the better AKM variants imported into the US - http://www.ar15.com/mobile/topic.html?b=4&f=81&t=143966) and a PO P14 (Upgraded). The muzzle climb on my RPM does not touch the in-game muzzle rise, and that's even when my 9-year old son fires it. The only way someone would consider the in-game muzzle rise to be realistic is if they are terrible shooters with absolutely no sense of balance... And no muscle at all.
i strongly agree that the muzzle climb on the weapons in ArmA 3 and (2 not to forget) was way to strong, a 66% decrease in muzzle climb would be more realistic to ArmA if not more, i have never been in the military and most likely never will. but i do have experience with firearms in Serbia m70b2,m85 5.56x45, m72(8mm), m84(pkm, ags 17 target ammo gp 25 target ammo, cz 999,cz 83(i believe), m4, f2000 and the m93 12.7x108. even the m93 does not touch the muzzle climb on the ArmA 3 weapons, m84 pkm was still more controllable in a standing position then a 6.5mm ArmA 3 weapon in crouch, even the m72 which is in 7.92 (8mm) still alot more controllable then Arma3's weapons. and if you don’t believe me there are video all over YouTube with people firing weapons even full auto where the weapon does not jump to the sky like it does in ArmA 3. i hate people who say this and that is unrealistic or realistic with only the assumption and with not first hand experience what so ever
i just have to add that the weapon will fall back into the "normal hold" by itself simply through using gravity!
Think about it: If you fire an mg while lying on the ground in Arma 3 - your aim will rise up in the sky.
Now imagine you would lie on the ground in real life and stop after shooting.
For sure your weapon would not stay in the sky. It would naturally fall back into position.
Same goes for shooting while standing allthough one has to keep in mind that the aimpoint wont be 100% right after each shot.
But in summarization your weapon will rather bounce around a certain aiming point then simply climb up.
Recoil is not fine. Why does the MX SW recoil more than the smaller MX rifles, for example? That shit is backwards, trying to fight with that gun puts you at a disadvantage even against a pistol. If it really is supposed to be 6.5 Grendel, then there's no way it should ride up like that on semi auto. It was ineffective at less than 75 yards...
References: I shoot. Lots. How many of the people saying the recoil is spot on have any experience with multiple calibers of firearms?
Funnily 3rd person shooting is A LOT easier than 1st person or while aiming down sights. Recoil doesn't make 3rd person aim jump that much, almost at all, and this allows fast double and triple taps to even greater distance. Especially with MXM 7.62.
Thanks for saying what I really wanted to. I didnt want to offend anyone but I was thinking exactly what you said. Back on topic, I have been following this and for all the combat/non-combat vets with more shooting experience than myself, I really respect your opinions in here and I do hope BIS is watching this and tweaks the game to a more realistic experience.
Shooting and moving shouldnt be impossible. I die at least 90% of the time when I'm trying to assault and shoot and its because it is simply impossible to keep the muzzle on target even while at the combat walking pace. In real life I know that I shoot much better than that.
Even if it is a 6.5 Grendel (or the ballistics are similar), a 123gr Grendel goes 2600fps out of a 24 inch barrel. That means the 14.5 to 16 inch carbines in the game are doing around 2400, to be generous. Chances are, you'd be firing a light slug out of such short barrels too, so as not to require insanely high rifling twist rates. If I, a 140 pound skinny-ass motherfucker, can fire a 6.5 Swede bolt gun with negligible kick, how much do you think a lighter, slower slug from a semi-auto is going to shove?
Ironically, the M14 kick is pretty reasonable, maybe even on the light side.
+1 on the combat pace sway, too.
I would like to see the ArmA 2 recoil when crouched. For standing the recoil can be insane as it is now I don't care, but you can't even shoot properly when you are crouched and low crouched. The mandatory sit or prone stance to fire a few rounds on a target is getting a bit annoying as you can not use those stances in every situation. You simply can't shoot properly from out a window (for example) without looking at the sky after shooting 1 round through your scope, bit impossible to shoot out of a window in mandatory prone position right.
Now I have never fired a real weapon, but there is plenty of footage on youtube available showing military units firing accurately in normal crouch position, even on target bursts, thats not the case in the alpha.
In TVT/TDM is is not a problem as everyone has the same recoil handicap, but against AI it sucks now.
@Huron, how much time and adjustment between shots when crouched? In-game, not guerilla shooting middle of desert in real life :D
As a person with military training and 7.62 mm AR as service weapon, like mentioned above already, I find recoil modeling in ArmA 3 to be joke and far far from realistic. It's overkill and promotes use of prone when shooting at target that are further than 50 meters away. Sure soldiers favor prone often, smaller target and what not, but shooting when crouched should be more feasible option.
P.S. What you mean with M14? MXM or ERB? ERB is kinda joke-ish when it comes to accuracy, but MXM rocks. Recoil on both, for being 7.62 rifles, is huge joke and even half of current recoil would be overkill.
many people have been downvoting the change to reduce arma 3 muzzle climb, yet those who do downvote these post, are people who have no experiance with firearms in real life and just go on there assumation of what they think is right, one can easily see that they do not know what there talking about, they never make a good statement to why it should stay the same, at times they sound inane.
Vertical recoil is insane, common sense tells you that if weapons behaved like this, wars would be fought like BF3 Metro nade spam, no one would use a rifle ever again! ofcourse standing won't let you fire that accurate and you will have a bit of muzzle-climbing, but you wont stop shooting and find your rifle in a 90 degree angle towards the sky!
@Deli, Even when standing vertical recoil isn't that large as you would think. Most of the recoil pushes into yours shoulder when rifle is handled right and allows surprisingly fast rate of fire to short-ish distance while maintaining accuracy.
I hope that devs really think recoil modeling through and decrease vertical recoil by noticable amount. Current recoil modeling is aiming more to arcade than to the realism and we, who has experience with assault rifles etc., find it silly.
ArmA, game series that promote themselves as ultimate mil-sim, cuts surprising amount of corners and does stuff to be very arcady or just has straightforward mistakes. One mistake, along the recoil, is handgun handling and rifle carrying while on back.
if anything increase recoil but, as mentioned in another thread, let the weapon reset to original position (just vertically) instead of climbing higher and higher even if u shoot just 1 bullet a second.
Weapons need to come somewhat back to the original position after firing, with your stance affecting how "accurate" that return is. As someone pointed out above, soldiers are trained in this. ARMA2/OA has the weapon returning to position almost perfect (note I did not say muzzle climb or the recoil, just how it returns and how it is affected by your stance) - please mimic this in A3.
Recoil may need reducing slightly. If a full auto AK47 only has about 1" muzzle climb for a full mag, it's not unrealistic to believe that a modern assault rifle, with fore grips would have even less.
There is a problem if the recoil were to be reduced though and that is that all rifles are super accurate.I can put single bullets in a window at 800m with any rifle in the game from LMG,assault,carbine etc it doesn't matter.All fire and hit at exact same spot and you have to only account for bullet drop.So what would happen then is that you would reduce the recoil and now your firing massive amounts of bullets into windows at 800m...not good.
What needs to be done is to give rifles actual dispersion.I can put a bullet thru a window at 800m with an RPK mod I downloaded but if you read up on RPK though you will find its accuracy is terrible from all accounts.This link explains how bad RPK's are.
""I thought the bore on this one was really great, strong rifling, passed the "bullet test" in the muzzle no problem. Finish on the remainder of the kit was easily 85%+. I built it and found out trying to sight it in that it will not even hit a 24' square sight in target at 100 yards! Groups 3" at 30 yards, but I've given up until the winter snows leave before I try again. Looks good though, and fun to shoot, virtually no recoil.""
TL;DR....rifles need dispersion so bullets are not lasers that you just need to account for bullet drop.......then you can tweak the recoil.
I also feel that recoil seems fine on everything but machine guns.
A weapon firing the same round as an assault rifle, which weighs more, should have a lower felt recoil per shot, and a greater resistance to muzzle climb, though it will probably be more difficult to hold upright and point straight forwards without any sway unsupported.
Machine guns in ARMA2 and 3 are pretty pointless weapons, you get a bigger magazine, but everything else about the weapon is a disadvantage, you are better off with an assault rifle, even when you're prone. It makes no sense for anyone who doesn't possess AI-magic-accuracy to carry one, in ARMA.
Perhaps run recoil and muzzle climb through the new physics engine? Or calculate some values before giving the properties to the weapons' files - muzzle climb = k * ammo * 1 / weaponweight?