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New technique for rendering grass at far distance
Assigned, NormalPublic

Description

After all the positive comments I'd like to start a feedback about the technique I describe here:
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?148861-Rendering-grass-at-long-distances-My-thoughts-about-it

It would basicly soften the transition between terrain and the soldier in prone position and thus make it harder to spot soldier hiding in grass even at far distances.

Details

Legacy ID
3709877742
Severity
Feature
Resolution
Open
Reproducibility
N/A
Category
Feature Request

Event Timeline

There are a very large number of changes, so older changes are hidden. Show Older Changes

i do really miss grass, when looking through optics and see an enemy sucked into the ground, and no grass around him.

Great Idea. The curren "sinking into the ground" camouflage makes it extremely hard to identify uniforms at high distances, since most of the body is completely invisible.
With this method it should be reasonably easy to identify friendlies/enemies without sacrificing the camouflage function entirely.

I have had problems with the current sinking system where areas that aren't grassy still lift up to sink units and make them totally disappear when they go prone!

great idea, totally agree

What about viewing soldiers from a high angle? It would seem strange if a grass mask was rendered starting from a 90 degree angle to the horisontal level and going 90 degree over the soldier. Like grass growing over the soldier, but starting from thin air.

I know it is nearly impossible but it would be perfect when the grass is rendered at all distances. This would make it easier to be shoure that you are really invisible to the enemy.

Well worth voting up..

Woo! It's been assigned!!

Great idea. However, when looking through scope the grass should be visible instead of the blurry long distance texture (if possible).

i voted up for both this, this is just to say that this issue has much needed attention.

I figure a much more efficient way to do this would simply be to simplify.

Character models seem to be too detailed in both complexity and texture at long range, and the terrain texture at long range really just are poor, see ticket 0003505, hopefully they work on that too.

But anyway, the contrast between model detail and texture compared to the terrain makes the model stand out like a sore thumb, so what devs need to do is to simplify the player model with less LOD complexity, as well as drop the texture resolution of model to that of the terrain, an you will find that the player model will easily blend in with the terrain. so much simpler and not so resource hungry.

also as a side note, when scoping in on said character (sniping or binocs) grass should be able to be rendered perhaps, since the FOV decreases when zooming in, less grass should be visually generated, which too will not eat so much resources. I have seen this being used alot before, one example was ye ol farcry (the first original one) if you looked into the distance, you would have flat textures, but if you used binocs to zoom in, grass would be generated, this worked fairly nice without any overhead on performance and could work in ArmA3 just as nice.

Huron added a subscriber: Huron.May 7 2016, 12:03 PM

I think adding some depth to this effect is in order however. They seem to melt into the ground texture in the demonstration, and there is a lack of shadowing which is generally the real giveaway to the human eye. Camouflage is not generally this effective within 500 meters.

This may just have been a side effect of the mushy looking distant terrain textures (there is a mod on Armaholic for this already, makes the game look really nice).

Val added a comment.Apr 19 2013, 5:36 PM

If the alpha-layer will use the color of texture that is under the soldier instead of just being glassy it will solve the problem Kolins told about.
Applying such alpha-layer to other objects not only soldier models will make the ingame picture look better as well.

The problem with ghillie suit is that the current method leaves the ground visible and the suit "needs" vegetation in order to have a successfull camouflage. This new method is by far very good but wouldn't fix this problem since it obscures the player with ground textures (color) and not with the original vegetation's color. The solution that i think would be the best is to not show the ground by cutting the prolongation of vegetation and it should add the ground some kind of soft quality's grass texture above the current ground layer (if there's vegetation). What i try to say is that in both methods, the current one and this one, the grass is still dissapearing from our sight and it's forcing the own men's camouflage to blend with the brown ground... Sorry for my bad english.. Cya!

cychou added a subscriber: cychou.May 7 2016, 12:03 PM

http://s1.directupload.net/images/130309/iyqh868j.jpg

this picture is from the BIS forum :

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?148861-Rendering-grass-at-long-distances-My-thoughts-about-it

the author claims that it's a technique to render grass at distance.

it's not a solution to render grass at distance. it only allow to camouflage units with the ground color.

What is needed is to see the grass itself at distance, the exact same grass rendering you can see near you should be displayed whatever the distance.

when you see through scope you should see the exact same vegetation, and not only a flat ground.

@cychou, what you're suggesting isn't at all feasable performance-wise. If it was, they would simply do exactly that.

Great Idea, it should beimplemented, because it seems to be way better than units sinking into the ground, somehow I always think it's a glitch to see those "submerged" models.

this lack of foliage rendering at distance is the last major hurdle to turn arma into a full fledged simulator. i really hope it is addressed soon

bez added a comment.Jun 21 2013, 12:07 PM

I just wanted to post about this:
http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=8157
only to find it is closed because apparently it is not a bug.

Well the thing is, the AI is not partially buried it is often
COMPLETELY buried underground, how is that a feature?
what kind of a feature is this that I walk around and all of a sudden get shot,
only to find out the enemy can not be seen AT ALL, and I see them only after they get up!!!?!?!?
And I don't mean half body is not visible, I mean everything from head to toe completely.

I would post screen shots, but it would be of an EMPTY TERRAIN!!!! and I don't have FRAPS or something.
If I don't get a response about this I will open a new ticket regardless.

Actually, the "distant characters clipping into the ground" issue is precisely because of the current distant grass technique, which makes units sink into the ground to simulate being partially obscured by grass.

In other words it is not a bug, but rather a "hacky" workaround to solve the same issue (distant grass rendering) that this ticket aims to solve in a more elegant way.

So yes they are absolutely related, and no, there is no reason to re-open that ticket.

bez added a comment.Jun 21 2013, 12:19 PM

I understand they are related, but often they are completely buried.
I just played,and some AI were totally invisible, I mean totally.

i didn't even know what the hell happened until I saw them stand up.
I couldn't even see the head, is this not a bug?

EDIT
if this ticket is the only way to solve this "feature"
well OK. upvoted anyway a long time ago, I think.
I just hope this will fix the AI from completely be invisible
since this is really stupid.

Going prone in high grass (or other ground clutter) should certainly render you (almost) invisible, except perhaps to someone with an elevated vantage point. Yes, this is an issue with the current method, since distant units will still be fully concealed even if you view them from above (or on the side of a hill), but that's simply a symptom of the current hacky solution. Fixing it would not be easy.

So in that sense, yes, what you describe could be defined as a bug, but it's not something BI are going to solve by hacking around even more on an already half-assed feature. Instead they will hopefully find the time to implement something like this, which will provide a much nicer solution.

Btw. I wouldn't say this ticket is the "only" way to solve the distant grass issue, but it's certainly one of the best ideas I've seen.

bez added a comment.Jun 21 2013, 2:44 PM

I understand that completely. It's only that they were totally under the ground from head to toe. I mean if this current method will stay, it should at least be fixed that you see a head stick out, at least.

otherwise lets just make the AI invisible at all times and call it a day, why not.

This bug is also present in Iraq and Afghanistan. Soldiers will often be shot at, and will be unable to see the enemy even if they are looking straight at them because their bodies are sunken into the foliage.

I gotta admit, playing now I've noticed the same, i understand why, and what it compensates for, but players end up too deep that they actually completely disappear, and even if you know where, it seems that the ground obstructs your rounds, cuz i can't kill the AI in the ground, so technically, it is a bug yeah, and partially an exploit too.

I really do hope the team does d fix this, mainly because most combat happens at long range and so this actually becomes an integral part of combat... That and the mid range textures, need to improve that too.

What if you're looking from above? Like from a chopper...

Well the simple solution to that i would imagine, and would solve the rendering of unnecessary grass, is to apply this grass technique to the player model itself. That way its only rendered around the character, and not in the terrain. So if this as effect is for example a square wall like object around the models feet parallel to the ground terrain, then no matter the players position, it will remain parallel to the ground. This wall like effect will do what is required, but only applicable to this invisible wall. Since this is only around the player, the top could still be open.

Also if this wall like object could obstruct view for AI then it could also help with remaining hidden, even at fairly close, unless the AI stands up close to see you from above and not on the side.

Shit, i hope that makes sense lol... I could better explain it with pictures though to show it instead.

i feel like this is an immersion killer since an enemy could be running and then just suddenly hit the deck, and you'd have no reference points or anything to shoot at. If it was really grass, you'd at least know which clump of grass to supress.

Well based in the theory, you would still be able to see a little of the enemy poking out. But even still, muzzle flash will still give away position as it does now.

This is one of the most important things they should focus on - it always bugged me out in arma2 so hopefully they will have a fix for arma3

For the issue of people in cover in front of objects: reducing the transparency slightly and adding some of the color of the grass onto the masked parts (which can be done with minimal additional performance impact) could help with that. It would make the unit look less like a ghost in front of rocks and such.

This is not fixed so easily!

What if the far away soldier is in very low grass? Giving him big camo options will also bring nearly invisible to that. Also the moving aspect isnt good calculated, in high grass a crouching soldier will make the grass move like a tank when he kills a tree. This is very noticeable from a higher distance, this is not like wind will move gras.

And how to find out where the soldier is? On the Hill there is never high vegetation, on the side can be but more directed to the hill, so a crouching/low moving person would be (better) seen. Only inside the valley there a good spots where to hide is a option and balanced. No view inside the spot, no view outside the spot on the horizontal line.

i76 added a subscriber: i76.May 7 2016, 12:03 PM
i76 added a comment.Aug 22 2013, 2:09 PM

Some guy came up with the same suggestion back in Armed Assault, he called it 'texture masking' I think... if your issue is not script/mod/mission making related and is gameplay related its often ignored sadly.

This would be much better. Upvoted.

Fri13 added a subscriber: Fri13.May 7 2016, 12:03 PM
Fri13 added a comment.Oct 4 2013, 9:01 AM

There should have been functionality in graphics engine to have Voxels. Then just draw voxels where ever you look. It is quick, low impacted on todays computers and gives a great use of camo/staying still.

hire this guy, bohemia.

Why is this even assigned?

Its been half a year since its been assigned and theres no single sign that it will ever get implemented.

Status of work?

It is really a shame that Bohemia , to this day hasnt told us anything about this. This technique could potentially solve on of the biggest problems of the ARMA series and what does Bohemia Interactive do ? Appearently nothing ...

I think this grass rendering method looks great.
How tall is the grass in this example, and can you change it?
Will grass still be able to lay down?

izaiak added a subscriber: izaiak.May 7 2016, 12:04 PM

Awesome dude ! BI has luck to have fan like you.

That's sad....still no progress.

pops added a subscriber: pops.May 7 2016, 12:04 PM
pops added a comment.Feb 12 2014, 9:08 PM

I guess it's unrealistic to expect any change after a year. The "sink into ground effect" is so ugly and doesn't fit the overall visuals not to mention that it somtimes even obscures whole vehicles. One of the many things that are probably going to be fixed in DayZ first.

I'm hoping that they fix this issue soon as it's one of those features that increase realism and immersion by a huge amount. I mean seriously, this issue was reported almost a year ago!!

Has this not been implemented yet? Is there a mod link for it?

Again i think this is job for modders beacuse AGAIN BI have their own way of thinking. Above all i would set highest priority to tanks and other vehicle that cannot do "reverse" command which is absolutly unacceptable. Renedering grass was better before some update. I remember Arma I, Arma II have same issue AFTER some update. I think this is very important issue, but be honest - if they didnt fixed this untill now, do you thinkg they will fixed this till next year? Someone must create mod for that and thats the only way

This option must be applied ASAP! Game must start to be playable at least after 2 years! I dont know how any company be so crucial to treat players like that

Great bohemia, you showed how you treat customers - without any warning, without any reason you blocked my account (vlad_8011) after what i was doing (6 months of helping other players FOR FREE). Thank god there is other games. Arma 3 will be never so cool as Arma 2 - too futurealistic and still unfinished and this greek islands.....

Sorry for the vlad, idea about grass is great, +1, for now game is unplayable when "grass" is shooting to you (you dont see enemy - he is sinked in terrain)

I hope this is gonne be fixed in this year......

This feature would have a great potential in the Apex update. The Taona's jungle and vegetation scream for this as a platform update.

TutSi added a subscriber: TutSi.May 7 2016, 12:04 PM
TutSi added a comment.Feb 7 2016, 11:59 AM

Playing on Takistan (desert-mountain terrain) is terrible. There is no grass, but Ai is sinking in ground as well.

*bump* - lack of concealment at distance is bothering. Sinking into the ground isn´t really a neat solution as it looks kinda a funny when you have heads sticking out of the ground.

Roddis added a subscriber: Roddis.Jul 1 2016, 12:09 PM
EDcase added a subscriber: EDcase.Apr 3 2017, 3:22 PM

120+ subscribers and BiS ignore that. Years later.

The worst thing in Arma, a game of concealment where you cant conceal over 150 m, where you become a drop of oil in water.

Incredible, absurd, disconcerting!!!

ruebe added a subscriber: ruebe.Mar 23 2018, 2:41 PM