Grenade throwing is unrealistic, because it's really to fast. Try binding something to your belt, and then take it, and throw it, while holding a weapon in your other and. You will never to as fast as it is done in ArmA3.
- Legacy ID
The grenade should be similar to taking out a rocket launcher like the older ArmAs, if you ever trained with tactical gear you would know during adrenaline taking something from a pouch isn't instant like it is in this game, especially since these are just NATO soldiers not veteran tier 1 special forces. This is a simulation, we're not playing a generic FPS.
I think it will be implemented just not yet.
Going to post this here, since the thread where i had posted this has been closed as a duplicate to this one. Some people liked my ideas as well, so maybe more could review it here.
"G equips a grenade, holding the left mouse button readies (but doesn't cook), tapping right click while ready cooks it.
This is exactly like america's army 2, if anyone's played that."
So yeah. That's what i'd suggest...
I like current FPS like grenades throwing. Too fast, maybe, but in Arma 2 was impossible to use grenades as i want. It was too ugly. Remember Arma is just a game and most of players want to play with fun and joy. But when you can't control some weapons and regular fails from it it isn't funny. I hope that Arma 3 will be in balance of gameplay and simulation because it's just a game. For better realistic warfare simulation there is VBS and mods like ACE, i suppose.
In ARMA 3's prone position, try to throw a grenade. It is not instantaneous and takes some time. Just perfect amount of time, I'd say.
Also, grenades should be an equipable weapon, like a carbine or sidearm. "America's Army" did this quite well.
+1, as the current system allows for grenade spamming. If anything, grenades should be an equip-able weapon, like in real life. You don't smack them off of your belt or vest like a volley ball, you have to take them off of your vest/belt, pull the pin, and throw. Agreeing with some of the reporters above, you should not be immobile while throwing it, but it definitely needs to be slowed down. Think about it, pulling a pin and throwing a grenade already in your hand is slower than the current system of just magically spawning one into a direction. This needs to be fixed.
Silence you fools do you know how long I have waited to even use a grenade in arma... I still drop them from my gear as a habit caused by fear of killing myself/my team in past armas...
@XxSheepDoggxX, "Easy to use" shouldn't stand for "You throw hand grenades like full auto grenade launcher (MLG 40mm)". They can keep whole "G for throw" concept if they add delay between push of button and throw itself.
For e.g. you press "G" and 2.5 seconds later grenade is thrown because soldier had to take it from hes vest, pull the pin and throw grenade. This way you have quick throw function, so to speak, but you can't CoD spam it anymore.
@SuicideKing There has to be delay if we want to have mil-sim over CoD's grenadespamfests. I would personally take equitable grenades, with small delay between grenades to "simulate" time it takes to pull new from vest, with pin pull animation over this "Hit G to quick nade just like in CoD!" -model that they have currently.
Edit: It made me laugh when I realized, in Alpha, that you can throw grenades out like fucking full-auto grenade launcher. That spam...
True, the CoD way doesn't suit Arma 3, which is why I'm advocating an America's Army style model, which doesn't make it "press button -> instant throw" but at the same time you have precise control over when and where the grenade falls. Plus you can cook it, so air explosions and all.
EDIT: Will upload a video of the AA method shortly.
Sorry, but I disagree with this issue. I was in the military, and have thrown plenty of grenades, flashbangs, and such other items. If you have a proper frag pouch, you drop your weapon (its on a three point sling anyway, or a single point sling). You grab the grenade, Index it, pull the pin, and throw. Spoon detaches, and about 5 seconds later, boom.
For grenades, wounding area should be 15 meters minimum, kill are should be 2-3 meters.
I don't think they should slow down the throwing animation, because that would take a lot of control out of the player's hands. It would make the throwing of the grenade feel disconnected from the player's actions. You would have to hold your point of aim in one spot through the whole animation.
But one way to solve this is by requiring the player to perform two actions, the first would be prepping the grenade to be thrown (getting it off your gear and into your hand, ready to pull the pin and throw), and the second being the actual pin pulling and throwing. This way the player would still retain control over the precise moment the grenade is thrown, while increasing the realism.
I don't care much about grenades, how fast or slow. I want throw it easy and to know where it hit ground. Grenades before Arma 3 were horrible, worst i ever saw in games.
Most of players forgot that Arma 3 is GAME and it has gameplay. Games should attracts new players. Grenades were such things which push much players away from Arma-Arma 2
There is VBS for those who want f*** with grenades.
Pac-Man is a game. Checkers is a game. Arma attempts to simulate the appearance of a real earthly environment, the feel and look of real earthly physics, and the look and operation of real military technology. It may be a game, but it is attempting to simulate.
Authors of Arma 3 attempt to simulate nice gameplay in realistic environment, but not real life behavior. Somebody tryed to create real limbs already, for outstanding realism, i.e. Trespasser game, where all revolutionary ideas were killed by one "real simulated hand". Try to play this game, where you should take and manipulate objects with recreated hand. It was cool when you able to grab rock and throw it or put at any place you want, but impossible to play it long time. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=x-3NnhN7Fis#t=68s
There was much fun, but lack of play.
In real life, grenades are thrown from a stable, non-moving platform, because of the risk of dropping or fumbling a grenade or tripping with it. Instead, it should be possible to abort the animation by moving. Of course, if you are cooking off tge grenade, you stillbhave to deal with its danger.
I still think that (G) or grenade key should equip the "Throw" weapon much like drawing a hand weapon. The player can then position themselves, or run into cover before throwing. The actual throwing mechanic could also include modifiers for over-arm and under-arm - lobbing over hard cover and through doorways as required.
I agree that while it has improved a little, it is still far too arcade in its present form.
I'd prefer it if you had to equip it and have the same thing as BF2 : PR, LMB does the hardest throw, Holding RMB for a certain amount of time gives a certain level of power to the throw. So if you tapped RMB it would drop it just in front of you so you could drop a grenade out of a window or balcony.
Even after adding animation for it grenade throwing is still way way too fast and spammy. Often I just take 20-30 grenades to backpack and when I spot enemies in e.g. fortified position I just spam 10 or so grenades at them in couple seconds.
Why? Effective as hell under new grenade throwing system.
There needs to be time taken to take out grenade from vest, pulling pin, throwing it and pulling another out. You can keep fast key [G default], but this way you don't spam 20 grenades to field in under 5 seconds.
The delay in the dev build is nice but not the right solution. The animation needs to be slower. Now it still only takes less than 1/2 a second to get back to shooting, which is extremely arcadish anyway.
At least you can't throw grenades like it's some automatic grenade launcher like you could before...
I would also like to see this becoming a slower action, where you for example need to hold the button for 3 seconds after which it appears in your screen and then you have to throw it. The 3 seconds makes for a good enough delay which could make you think you actually have to get it out, and the just holding it makes it a easy manouvre (so no difficult g, ctrl etc combo's).
I still don't understand why it can't be a multi-step process? Like, equip and then throw? I mean, the discussion about "ooh does it take 2s or 5s to throw a grenade" is a bit silly (as it'll probably vary from person to person), when the obvious solution (that works for all throw-able items) is to equip the item and then throw it using the LMB.
See my second last post (before this one) for an example video.
That way, you:
- Throw the grenade just as fast as YOU can, after the initial second or two to equip it
- Aim properly at where you want it thrown
- Can't spam because it takes time to perform a multi-step action
- Throw all items, be it smoke, frags, lights, etc. in a similar way
- Can engineer air bursts and other things via modifier keys/buttons like the RMB (to cook the grenade, or maybe CTRL+RMB to switch to underhand throw)
- Can move while the grenade is equipped or being held in a "ready to throw" position.
I can't think of anything else, but i think 6 advantages isn't a small number by itself.
voted up. when using grenades, it takes both hands, and much more that 2 seconds.
-you take it out i.e. remove it from the pouch,
-undo all the safeties (depending on what grenade, this is the future who knows what new safety rules will be in place)
-tell everyone you're throwing a grenade
-throw the grenade.
Grenades should at least have to be selected as a weapon like in Battlefield 2. There is no way a professional soldier will pull out and lob a frag grenade with his left hand if he is right handed, whilst holding his gun in his right hand, in 2 seconds.
Basically it all comes down to the arcadish animation. All you need is watch another player throwing a grenade (especially if done while shooting) and see immidiately how wrong it is. Of corse it would look even worse if you ever actually had a grenade in your vest in real life.
Tajin, you said you would be able to cook the granade?
- Allow us to cook the grenade
That was your nr2.
A real granade (Shock-splint) has a timer for 3 sec before it blows up! +/- 1 sec.
Trust me, you dont wanna cook a granade, thats only for movies.
I did trow allot of granades in the Army, so this I know!
Indeed cooking grenades is very dangerous. So dangerous nobody even does it in movies usually. Only in games because it adds a funny gameplay element, and even that not in most games as it would be too complicated for the average (stupid) user.
But the throwing animation for grenades is too COD-like. As in, it is very very unrealistically fast.
well but its not like you put the safety on on your rifle, put it to the ground, stand straight and send your fingers for a walk for the correct pouch the nades are in.
that sounds like a 4 second task...
Actually, the person who trows the grenade never drops the safety pin before the grenade are trowed. Just in case he have to put it back on!
Yeah, it goes to fast! And when you trow the grenade( in real) you can aim with the arm that is available (pretty good actually).
Putting the safety pin back in is also quite dangerous and we were instructed to never do it basically.
In any case, in real life you have to put your safety on (negligible though), move your hand to the pouch, open it, grab the grenade, pull the safety pin, and then swing your arm to throw it, and of course at the end grab your rifle again. If you can do that entire process in less than 1 second in real life you deserve a real medal of honor (meaning a copy of the game, not the actual medal). If you're super-fast it should take you about 4-5 seconds for the entire process.
Currently even the throw motion itself is too fast, not to mention completely ignoring the whole process of actually picking the grenade out of the vest.
But you don't have a row of grenades in front of you. you are holding a weapon in your hands, and the whole grande trow is just to stupid. It is like BF3 and COD. This is Arma, it is supposed to be realistic.
I understand current artificial delay between throwing grenades has its purpose, however it feels wrong. The fact that you cannot throw another grenade with no obvious reason feels like a bad game mechanics.
I've done some digging. The current action to throw grenade is called "ThrowGrenade". It is fast action and this is why it also looks wrong when you can throw grenades with the speed of machine gun.
However there is another action called "ThrowPrepare". This action is slower and much more realistic and the duration of this action can serve as natural delay reducing frequency with which you can throw grenades.
I have made a proof of concept to show it in action (it is not even a mod just few script commands):
Looks much more natural. BIS, why not use this action instead and drop the silly delay?
Well, to get the actual grenade throw to work like this would probably require BIS to enable this animation instead of the current COD one. What he's trying to say is that the animation is already in the game, but simply not used.
With a mod I'm not sure how hard/easy it would be to switch to the slower animation.
As mentioned previous an extra key to pull the pin(R)with animation, then left click to throw would be an easy solution prevent accidents also. So G R & LM would look quiet realistic also
I really dislike the current solution of artificial cooldown between throws. It looks weird and non-intuitive, and for a single grenade you can still throw in unrealistically fast.
We need a new proper animation rather than a cooldown or other bad solutions.
Actually Frank, I think you just made that up! It's simply extremely dangerous and thus never taught as something that you should be done. In basic training if you mention it you will get some kind of "are you crazy?! Do you want to get yourself killed?!" response.
In any case, grenade cooking should probably be a separate feature request, not a comment to this, as it's a completely different feature/issue.
Cooking a grenade is not very smart, since the fuse only last for 3-4 (+- 1 second) So you should not cook a grenade. Learned this in the military, thought there is different fuse time for each grenade!
Cooking grenade is for and only COD!
Randomizing the fuse time a bit would be a good idea too, might be worth its own feedback ticket. Though need to test first - This might already be implemented in-game.
Cooking a grenade IRL is not some fantasy, though. It's just not really safe (for the reasons mentioned) and therefore they teach you to not do it.
In any case, the animations are still ridiculously fast for throwing grenades. The delay was nice, but it really isn't a full solution.
I never claimed that cooking a grenade is smart, but it is possible.
ArmA allows us to play different factions and different roles, including terrorists, fanatics and what not. Some of which may have use for that feature.
It's also not very smart to try to rocketjump by shooting an RPG at your feet, yet the game doesn't prevent us from doing that. ;)
Grenades in ArmA3 should as a priority be able to bounce role and ricochet off walls, as they do in quite realistically in ArmA2 I think the animation or pin pulling is really a secondary requirement.
Dear developers, what do you think about the solution of Killzone_Kid?
I mean, it can't be that difficult to exchange the "ThrowPrepare"-animation with the actual (Call of Duty like) "ThrowGrenade"-animation .
Just think about it.
All we really need here is proper pin-pulling animation before the throw. Just a longer animation really.
The workaround that had been in place for months (delay for throwing 2 grenades in a row) is just unacceptable in terms of realism.
Iven if they add animation while you are opening inventory it will take 1 sec longer, will you be more happy? This isnt so important, "reverse"command is most important issue beacuse commanding vehicle is unplayable
I definitely would like to see the grenade (and explosives) completely overhauled. You should be able to throw it multiple ways (underhand/roll, toss, and throw). I would also like to see the ability to cook the grenade. Now you just chuck a grenade, theres really no roll or physics to it (except gravity), and usually watch the AI have plenty of time to run away from it. IMO frags are really kind of useless (better than other arma series though, at least you have some control over them).