The wheel is still spinning even if the guinea pig is long dead...

Rogerx, making humour is difficult as it will be eventually someone to take it literaly... it is a common fate for humorists, so please keep smiling :-)

For the arguments about "how impossible" it is to design a valid female model for BIS developers it looks like the Dunning-Krueger effet (google it) strikes back. I love when taxi drivers try to explain quantum physics at a nobel prize, dudes. I think at BIS they aren't that in need of your consulting for 3D modeling...

And back to the ring, Jazon... "The immature players thing..." as he said. "People who are going to be immature are going to be immature anyways,..". So true!

"I exaggerated to make a point clear, which is: The hitboxes shouldnt be different at all, not even if the difference is as petty as 1 pixel. If we are going for equality in this game we should be going for it on the whole line.". What can I say that isn't sarcastic?

"I hope i made some of my statements more clear to you." Something is clear but is not related to the statment. With school holidays come back the teens...

Last but not least Scorcherdeath message... It is well-written but I think ArmA is more a game than "a piece of popular culture and as such it has a role in shaping society's outlook and attitudes". Sorry about that... and including female models because "The mere inclusion of female soldiers in Arma 3 would be a powerful statement on its own." seems, at the end, completely out of the scope of BIS.

But the fun never ends, so thank you all to be here.

Thanks God, the fun never ends...

#0032878 (Meratroma):
I prefer not watch videos on youtube with female soldiers in obscene positions.

Don't look at those then... problem solved :-P

#0032833 (ElfinNullia):
It's just the Arma team should not devote time and effort to modelling a female counterpart to each and every class, as well as implement new animations, hit-boxes and even clothing and stances. If you guys didn't already know, the male model for Arma is what everything is based on in the game so far as far as all these things go. Adding a female equivalent would not be simply, rather time-consuming and incredibly laborious.

It is always good to have the point of view of some person able to develop 3D modeling, animations, stances and the rest. Certainly, to speak with such emphasis, you know all about the process. Being a retarded moron myself, I like to hear about softwares you use and to see some examples of a working 3D model, animation scripts and all the rest you developed. Or maybe, just maybe, you are lvl 100 Master Of The Big Mouth, trying to show to others how great you are?

#0032833 (Same folk)
If you guys didn't already know, the male model for Arma is what everything is based on in the game so far as far as all these things go.

Well, as I said before being a retarded moron myself I didn't know that. But by showing the comunity examples of your hard work in 3D modeling we may see better what you are refering to. If no examples come out we will see better what you are.

#0032833 (Same folk again - the fun never ends)
... I sort of have to play public servers...

Poor dear... too busy with 3D modeling to find a good private server or to setup your own?

@rogerx

Thank you dude! I was laughing so loud that one of my contact lenses pops out. It took a quarter of hour to get it back in place. Me start singing with you :-)

@NodUnit

As usual very valid answer, I agree fully.

@JazonVoheeS

It seems something was (hardly) learned here: "So now that i think about it this may as well have been my last branch." and admitting it is respectful. Also, knowing I can be pretty pesky you never used insults, something that I also respect. I hereby promote you to level 2 and let you go, little padawan.

It seems that a standard goldfish can remember information for 3 seconds. It seems that some people can remember maximum three posts. This leads to some funny nonsenses... extracts are from the post number in title and weren't changed. Easy enough for any goldfish to check :-P

#0027611
1.: The majority of the players got annoyed by the radio commands of the female character
#0028837
A female player is teaching me how to play Dota 2 right now because im horribly bad at it haha

:: To be annoyed or not annoyed, that's the question... haha ::

#0027830
Literally the only upside of adding female characters is that some players (probably the minority of Arma players) get to play as female characters instead of male characters. The negative things outweigh the good things.
#0028837
In Saints Row The Third, for example, im playing as a female. I dont even know why,...

:: Do as I say, not as I do! ::

#0027611
2.: Some player would go out of their ways to protect other players with female characters, just because they were female.
#0028837
In Saints Row The Third, for example, im playing as a female. I dont even know why,...

:: Protection issue, maybe? ::

#0028264
Even if female soldiers get implemented you could still make servers where you cant play as female.
#0028837
Anyways, did anyone of you actually ever see a player who had a problem with females playing games

:: Hmmm, let me guess... ::

I rest my case.

@Leah

One of the best answer yet, thanks. But I have some ideas about the remark "women come in different shapes and sizes in real life ya know lol.. any female soldier in the game wouldn't have to be some short little skinny hobbit that's hard to shoot"

The real problem is that most of guys against women in game are afraid to have to admit they were owned by a woman, and more humiliating: a girl! They have the feeling that all the internet will gossip "Hey, look! Jazon was owned by a 14 years old girl in ArmA3. What a dope!".

As a pre-emptive strike they push forward "arguments" like the "pixel of death", "horrible sound pitch of the 14 years old girl","that problem would be solved if you could simply turn female voices off through the ingame options.", "why we need a female character if you wont be able to tell the difference anyways?", "...abuse of female NPC", "Even if female soldiers get implemented you could still make servers where you cant play as female" and other nonsenses.

One very positive thing about this: it will certainly be servers where females are forbidden. It looks bad, but it will become easy to pinpoint those servers and their population, and also these guys will no more pollute good servers.

Jazon, I don't want to discussing WITH you -it is pointless-, I'm discussing ABOUT your ... "arguments" and behavior. Frankly I like the "pixel of death" alot and the very mature reaction [And believe me, if there would be any issues with the female characters i will not hesitate to make such a server.]

Also [I just hope that the developers want a two third majority, which would be the only logical thing if it comes to such a big decision.] is funny. Developers will do as they see fit and would certainly not play the 2/3 rule for decisions like this.

Did you said "mature"?

[My first statement was "The female characters would have to have the same proportions as the male characters, making them look not female at all."] (post 0027611 - already discussed)
This statment is incorrect and pushed to the end has given birth to the hilarous "pixel of death". Re-using it will not make it less incorrect, and doesn't give any new opportunity to laugh.

[You wont see any difference unless you look at the face. And to be honest, who looks at his characters face while playing Arma?]
So, let's use the same model everywhere, wearing googles, because nobody will see a difference! But wait, now all pictures of the avatars look the same... to witch one did I ask to get there? Bummer!!

[... just yet another example of how the characters could possibly be abused.]
To arms! It was done with ArmA2! We need to protect NPC from being abused in Arma2. But wait... women are in the "afraid" stance, pilot in the "wait" stance and juvenile imagination does the rest. Yes, indeed, what an abuse!

[He probably doesnt like high pitched voices, which is a reasonable thing to say.]
To say it is his own problem and there is no one who cares is also a reasonable thing to say.

[And believe me, if there would be any issues with the female characters i will not hesitate to make such a server.]
Good boy!

About an hypothetic human Egyptian race:
Egyptians(Modern and Ancient) with the exception of the Black Nubians/people of Kemit(southern lower 1/4 of Egypt and the Sudan) conquered by the Arabs(Middle Eastern), are Semitic White like the closely related Jews(Middle Eastern), as proven by both DNA tests(haplo groups) on mummies and modern Egyptians(Semitic White) and Nubian Egyptians(Black) as well as skeletal points and measurements(mainly the skull).

About Egyptian Mau (a cat, I love cats)
Egyptian Maus are a small-medium sized short-haired cat breed. Along with the Bahraini Dilmun Cat, they are one of the few naturally spotted breeds of domesticated cat. The spots of the Mau occur on only the tip of their coat. The spotted Mau is an ancient breed from natural stock; its look has not changed significantly as is evidenced by artwork over 3,000 years old. Unlike other spotted cats such as the Ocicat or Bengal cat, the Egyptian Mau is a natural breed.

The only Egyptian race found applies to cats. People from Egypt are mainly white or black people... or a mix of these races. Models already exist...

About Korean:
According to recent scientific studies, there are more identical DNAs between Koreans and Japanese than there are between Chinese and Japanese.
Our DNA and Koreans' DNA match on the order of 97% or more. That's what I read on Yahoo! Answers Japan.
As far as the languages, there are strong similarities between Japanese and Korean, while Japanese and Chinese are radically different from each other in a linguistic sense, though Japanese borrowed a great many words from Chinese more than a thousand years ago. So the Japanese language looks more similar to the Chinese language than it does to Korean, but the truth is the opposite.

But, to be fair and to inflate my ego, I already suggested to insert Asian models, both male and female. But now if the Korean average model has only one pixel of death difference from the Caucasian bullet sponge and the Chinese two or more, I have no problem if only a Korean model is selected.

NodUnit, what you said is definitively correct and I agree fully. The problem is that this thread has gone outside the boudaries of evidence and logic a long time ago...

RogerX is quite humoristic in his replies, so don't get it too serious. Frankly, what's left when a hitbox discussion goes to "the pixel of death", apart some laughts?

I bet my shirt that someone will point out that Mass Effect is NOT a simulation so it can NOT be compared to ArmA because blahblahduh pixel of death blahblahduh female weak blahblahduh real life...

Roger, I'm afraid I don't get it...

I rather play the doctor into the bushes with a woman. I can imagine a woman may play the same with a man. I can imagine the same with same genders. If they both agree what's the problem.

But I have a personal concern if it "should remain a man only world" as you said. So please let my character die alone, I will wait the next turn or load a previous saved game instead of being "healed" by the Village People Paramedic Team.

Heterosexuals should have they share of care also, don't you think :-p ?

Yes! The total nonsense is back, thank you so much.

Jazon (0028043) told us that "... i say that even a pixel can make the difference between alive and dead". I thought that maybe it will be the difference between reloading a saved game or continuing... but maybe it is because I still make a difference between a simulation and the real live?

Jazon also said "i wonder why i didnt see a thread that complains about the lack of asian characters". That's true. So I suggest to add asian women to the game, so everyone will be happy... if Kumeda can calculate the difference between the hitbox of the standard american bullet sponge and the average petite asian woman.

Do we have an unfair advantage in this case of two or three pixels that will make all the huge difference between alive and dead?

The asian people will use sticks instead of fork & knife, so do we have an unfair advantage of five grams for the package weight?

Are fork & knife still used in the U.S. Army, BTW??

All those important questions MUST be solved before we can play!

Scrim is right: more realism! For US Army...

40% of the time, when looking through binoculars the screen should go black, because in real fife:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/worldnews/3274186/George-W-Bush-in-pictures.html?image=20
http://www.sott.net/image/image/292/medium/clinton_binoculars.jpg

60% of the time you shoudn't hear a thing at the radio, because in real life:
http://www.paperstone.co.uk/News/2010/Incompetence_Confidence_Correlation

70% of the time you shoudn't get clear directions, because:
http://epiclolfail.com/bush-fail/

20% of the time you should have a stupid accident when driving because:
http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/funnypictures/ig/Fail-Pictures/Bush-Segway-Fail.htm

Frankly, when playing ARMA the most exhausting exercice you have to do is to push some buttons and you don't take the risk to receive a real bullet. The "realism for realism" road may encounter a dead end when applied to a simulation.

They are back! I was afraid that after a modertator note the trolls will flee, but no... they are too dumb to be afraid. So the show can go on...

PBLJake (0026122) tell us that ... "the majority of the down voters are complete fucking morons, and some of the up voters are too." The question is to know if Jake's ego fells now a bit better? Is the self-esteem still low, or does it climb thinking that this remark puts him high above the rest?

Jake is a troll, a forum clown; and he participates to make this thread less boring! Refreshing, thanks Jake. Please feel free to answer for more fun!

@Stalker 1

"I am an active duty infantryman"... I assume in US Army, or only in the bar down the street? The only one I know for sure IS in the infantry is Corona2172. Others I have some little doubts, they look far more dumber...

"The amount of torment new recruits get, hazing, and there are even cases of rape in male only companies." Ouch! So much for the US Army.

"If you want a new front line on how to reduce the amount of rape in the Army, vote no on coed infantry companies". Ouch again! What's the favorite occupation in the infantry: [censored] any passing-by human being?

I just wonder what could happen if I ask if the message draws an accurate picture of the US infantry, by example here http://www.hrc.army.mil/?

Think twice before posting messages like this one, dude!

Psst Stalker1, look at ExploitedYouth: that's the way to write an intelligent message to expose a point of view. No need to rape nobody ;-)

"But to try to get a job that you are physically unfit for because you're still "equal" is no different than someone with no college education trying to apply for a high level management job at any corporation." For the first part of the sentence, OK, but it seems you never met my manager, the Pointy Hair Boss. (Sorry, I'm out...)

Poor Stalker 1, bashed by a mole... that's SO unfair!

"This is a forum for improving the fundamentals and accuracy of this game..." really? Should we include torments for new recuits and even cases of rape in male only companies in ArmA III? Duh...

"Strictly for game purposes only, the truth about what happens here in the army, and even the marines, is obvious." Ouch! Now the marines also. And in the Navy? Answer here-> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InBXu-iY7cw

"I'm not going to sit here and waste my precious free time talking to someone who disrespects others in an unprofessional manner. You, my friend, seem to be lacking." When did we become friends? I wasn't in the last rapist routine dude! And what has my profession to do with all the crap you said?

Frankly, I will not report you. I let any soldier in the infantry, the marines or any other corp. with some pride for his profession the priviledge to do so.

You are pathetic.

A small resume may come handy.

All persons agreed (included the person who submit the request) that the request has nothing urgent. But when (wrongly) set to one level it is not possible to change it... Well, mistakes happen.

Most persons agreed ARMA3 game mechanic and bug fixes should take precedence on features, this one included.

Opinions now diverge on several points:

1. Having or not female combattants with the squad the player is in. It is the most discussed point, opinions diverge regarding immersion, close to reality or not... you name it.
2. Same discussion to have or not the possibility to impersonate a woman.
3. Concerning the usage of properly implemented female models (with voice acting...) for use OUTSIDE the player squad (like allied pilot to save, support, medic, civilian, hostage, spy, you name it) a majority of people are in favor of it, because it will offer more diversity and best immersion than what is currently possible in user's scenario (woman with male voice...)
4. IMO a lot of time was lost on pointless discussions about "absolute" stereotypes (woman = weak, if you want woman model you're a f...g whatever). Discussions like this were as constructive as peeing in a cello.

A topic quite similar has been discussed on bistudio.com with quite similar results:
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?119587-They-better-have-female-soldiers&p=2326970#post2326970

Hope this helps.

@Corona2172: same here, and I hope you (had)-(currently do)-(will) build scenarii to get a view of what you-team have experienced. Keep us informed... and come back in one piece, Old Bullet Sponge!

@SGTIce: good question with several answers:

First, adults has already sort out passionless arguments and get a clear view on what are the pro/con of the proposal. So continuing will not change this.

Aslo in message 7190 Kumeda posted a link where a close issue was discussed, with the same general results: for having woman models (look at the votes).

When reading the post you can see the very same nicknames reacting the very same way on both:

• Any of these messages starts with insults
• Arguments are of the dumbest stereotypes
• Virulent agression to different way of being and thinking
• Call for regrouping and ganging

In message 6808 LadyBrecky expressed distress for being harassed, followed and wrongly exposed to the internet community.

• Do you think it is funny?
• Do you think acting this way is glorious?
• Do you support this?

If the answer is "no" to those questions you are still human and maybe you will mourn with parents that lost a child who commited suicide after being harassed.

Do you think hearing "Oh, I wasn't alone to harrass the f..k feminazi faggot feeble teen... I didn't press the trigger when he commited suicide" is acceptable?

Should I accept this to continue to such an awful conclusion or should I face the little gang of mobster and show them a mirror of their souls? I took a decision...

Nothing to do with the primary subject, but maybe very important also.

Look who said this: AussieStigius Trolli...

In such need of attention he sniffs its genital and pee as soon as he's posting a stuff. Well known on bistudio.com to be a giant brown nose, without telling what most members on usecforce.com can tell you about him.

Here he told (message 7104) to an US army trained professional that he is soooo wrong when the before mentioned professional spoke about his experience.

Unable of compassion and short of any intelligent argument he goes now to "Ad Hominem" attacks. The worst insult you can tell to a human being is "You look like an AussieStig".

@disc: you have a point... Dunandan has understand but other people surely gets this wrong because it become a private discussion in a public forum.

Please let me explain: in post 6928 Dunandan explained how woman are feeble compared to a trained soldier. The exact sentence was (with capital letters unchanged) "Western Soldiers can carry more than 50kg of equipment for kilometers in Afghanistan."

I took that on the second level to propose to use those "supermen" to carry stuff instead of vehicules, because it will be cost effective on material and gazoline, and even to push the tanks to the engagement point. I was mocking the "absolute" of arguments used in the message, not any real soldiers of any army, hence the use of capital letters.

Anyhow, thanks to draw my attention on this.

@Dunandan:

"That got to be the stupidiest comment I've read so far, and only proves how ignorant and blind you people are."

That's only because you never re-read yourself. Western Soldiers... what a jerk!

@SiegHeil25: Kumeda is using something called "intelligence", often mistaken for arrogance by simpleton who can eruct insults but are deficient to understand complex words not directly related to sex or scatology. I already told him, but he cannot stop using his brain... Bad Kumeda, bad!

UltraJake said "To think, this almost..."

To think? Really? What a refreshing novelty. We should try it more...

Don't worry LadyBrecky: you can't expect that any new person posting will read all the thread from the beginning. Also most of them are just inputting their point of view because they can do so, not because they have something useful or pertinent to say. Don't take it personally.

Apart of that, anything to say different than what was already said Steve5513?

Does someone sees the kafkaian situation here?

Corona2172 is against having female models included in front line scenarii, but for different (and far better) reasons than sexist stereotypes.

Now when this trained professional expose clearly why the stereotypes mainly do not reflect reality, the trolls against having female models are telling they know better than that. Is it to be against for the sole purpose to be against?

Allo, McFly????

The AussieStigius Trolli is back, equal to himself... unable to assimilate a fact even if the fact is given by someone far better informed and close to the subject.

Pathetic.

STDRepository: currently no developer has been mistreated. I said twice: no developer mistreated. Currently they are laughing about this thread saying we are all a bunch of... but this is not mistreatment.

@Apo: May I suggest the addition of "sharp objects" alongside with "gun". With that type of feeblemind better safe than sorry.

What a funny joke, so mature... If you're a good boy I may have a coloring book for ya.

What is the best army in the world?

The Belgian army (small european country) because when the ennemy see the Belgian infantry men fully equipped they all die laughing in terrible spasms.

On a more serious note I'm convienced that the infantry is far more than just pulling a trigger.

How about that one:

Albert Einstein goes to haven. Sadly there are no single room available, so he has to share a 4 persons bedroom with 3 other people. Being polite, he introduces himself and ask to the first one about its IQ...

• I score 174 (proud)
• Good, says Einstein, we can discuss about general relativity together, we have now plenty of time.

The second introduces himself:

• I score 126
• Good, says Einstein, we can discuss international politic, or business...

The last one introduces himself:

• I'm afraid I just score 23...
• Ah, says Einstein... what's new in the infantry?

+1 with what you said Corona2172.

On the same vein aren't you afraid to be taken for a f...g feminist if you are seriously speaking to me? (Humor...)

OK, back to nonsense messages starting with words like "f...g feminazi faggots farting in fear inside the fog"; far more amusing. I personaly like cannon fodder used as mule to carry the heavy stuff to make substantial costs saving on petroleum. And it is green, good for the planet!

Corona2172, cross messages.

No need to post pictures, I beleive you and I will re-read your messages with this new fact in mind. I was thinking you were just joking so I was playing dumb...

I appreciate also what you wrote to cheer LadyBecky up.

Corona2172, you seem to really be part of the army.

I was kidding before but between adults aren't you concerned that what you say here, on an open forum with international presence can be used against you? You are representing your army by the simple fact to be part of it. Some of your writing here can be posted elsewhere with negative comments, as a proove that the army is "this" or "that"? Let me be totally out of all logic to give an example: "I've been gone eating small children for the past few days" may be take for real by a uneducated fanatic who will gossip "See what does the army when they capture our spouses and children".

Even if you need to also be a seriously uneducated fanatic to beleive it, it will be too late to withdraw it and you will have a hell of explains to do.

Please consider this message as a kind warning, not something againt you. I do not want to have persons having real problems for a game or a simulation.

Hi Corona2172, how does that therapy worked for you, buddy?

"Anyone who doesn't oppose women being on the "frontlines" has obviously never been to them."

Did you go to the front? If true tell us more about your unit, place you see... if not, well, what a joke!

@dunadan:

Thank you to draw my attention on a very valid argument:

"Western Soldiers can carry more than 50kg of equipment for kilometers in Afghanistan."

If true, this offers an opportunity to enhance combat efficiency: no need to bother anymore with vehicules and carburant: western soldier is the solution. Charge them with all the stuff and let them run. They will be sooo happy. Maybe they can also push heavy armor to make substantial costs saves on the carburant?

If only the sole problem of an army was carrying stuff... but you certainly knows better, hell, you're a mouse veteran!

Sorry to hear that LadyBrecky.

But it was something to be foreseen, as reporting is part of bullying. See some video on YouTube from people placed in humiliating situations.

Don't give it too much importance... by doing this to others they just want to be acknowledged by someone, preferably by their pairs, because their lives suck so much they are socially transparent.

• Do you ever fighted at 10 againt 1?
• Yeah man, it was a lass and we get her raped!

Keep in mind that if they want the ultimate simulation they can enlist themselves. They will never find something more close to the real thing than the real thing. Problem is they hardly meets standard requirements when it come to the only part of their body their never get trained: the brain.

Ultimately if some of them told you they are currently part of any army, thus knowing best then you do, don't bother: it is often a lie. In rare cases they are really in the army and they have a codename: "cannon fodder". The army uses them for simple "KMD" missions where it don't worth the risk to send a highly trained, thus costly, professional (of any gender BTW). They are totally expandable.

Oh, look it is back... cool.

I'm a bit disapointed about the lack of words like "feminazi faggot" this time, but the poor thing should be exhausted after all these emotions. Is it why it is repeating the same question again, even if it has been several time answered?

Fascinating.

@Kumeda: OK, I let the specimen go... as it shows clear signs of fatigue, the nose is a bit warm and blood pressure is high. And we have a Soldierman113 ready for study... or should I let this one alone too?

Hi LadyBrecky,

As it is your post I would like to ask you a favor: I rarely have the opportunity to examine such a pathologic case as AussieStig. Rarely because Australian are in a vast majority good persons to go along with, so it is the provenance of the specimen that makes it so precious.

I would like to include the "AussieStigius Trolli", also known as the Deep Australian Desert Troll Bush in a cursus for students in psychology, so continue the current study.

But the specimen may do some noise in the bottom of the discussion. But most members has already said what needed to be said, votes are clearly on the "for" side, so I presume it will be not that a disturbance.

But the ultimate decision is yours to take: do we let the specimen go?

I frankly don't know what to do now with the can of dog food I just won... but it is too easy to play with such simpleton personalities.

Okay okay, I will be kind with AussieStig by answering one of his questions, because it seems important for his mental sanity:
"Once again, I'll ask you to tell me how women add to a military simulator."

Answer: in this 300+ long thread you will find why more than 313 persons voted for having female models included in the game. My only point of view is one of those 313.

As you can see AussieStig is exactly in the same situation as Soldierman113. He wrote one phrase, but because answers he received didn't go the way he planned, the poor subconscient becomes verbally violent, having no other choice left.

"Anyway, I'm out." Really? I bet a can of dog food he'll be back for more.

A new case... quite interesting.

One harsh phrase that tells soooo much about him.
"Soldierman113"... how serious. With such a name the guy has eradicated the army of Virtualstan alone, only armed with his mouse. Please respect that :)

The "you f..g feminist" label he gave to other clearly indicates how he envy normal personalities that have fruitfull relationship with woman. Thus this group should be lowered below his perception of his own twisted personality by being labelled "f... feminists".

He assumes all would react the same way he will do: "...going to play as them and run around naked". It is the sole purpose his subconscient can think about... again because his relationship with woman is unsane.

He wants other to react, to be conforted that if someone reacts it is because he hits a nerve, getting right about "f... feminists" thus comforting his psychological representation of himself.

If you don't react the way he planned to he will become verbaly violent, trying to impose his views. He needs it to continue beleiving in his mental scheme.

First sceance is free.

Hi Kumeda,

You know that I highly respect your opinion because it is emotionless and based on facts, as opposite of members who try to disguise their fear of woman inside facts or pseudo-facts but are unable to set emotions aside.

These persons having the argument "There are no woman in the front lines" blown up try to find another (feeble) arguments to proove woman models should not be part of the game. The best example is the medic letting the all squad dying to first take in his arm the poor sobering woman. Why not sharing factually the argument instead to become irrationaly emotional?

It is a shame a person cannot expose an idea without being immediately flamed or worse, harrased for her gender by puny personality with inflated ego.

It is a shame also that even if the person does a mistake (by not setting correctly a priority flag) a pack of howling morons get amused to mob the person instead of kindly asking why having this set up this way.

It is a shame that the bashing is perpetual and include all person who tries to honestly evaluate the proposal.

For these reasons I try to serve those sub-personalities their very own medecine, so they can also feel the bad taste of it.

And it is why you are better than me, Kumeda my friend, always trying to plant the seeds of logic and fairness on such unfertile minds. I cannot...

Ah, Reiber keyboard back to normal, even if the brain is still in unstable stage.

It seems I hit the nerve of AussieStig a bit too harshly, the few brain cells available didn't stand it.

OK, I'm sorry lad, please pat your dog for me, willya?

@Reiber: Maybe more !!!!!!!!!!!! after "... if you want it Implemented!!!!!!!" would have helped?

"I am a Woman, and I have enough control over my emotions...". So it is the keyboard that autorepeat "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" not your fingers. Also are you German you put a capital letter in front of words or does the shift key play bad tricks on you also?

@Turtle: the more you try to explain yourself the best you expose exactly how immature you are. Why do you feel the pressant need to justify yourself in front of me? I'm (happily) not your daddy...

@Dialn911: "the medic consoling the sobbing woman while under fire when there were troops with legitimate mortal wounds in need of medical aid"... the movie seems interesting: may I have the title, I'd like to rent it?

"Israel experienced this very issue, and pulled women off from front line combat roles shortly because of the chaos it created among the front line infantrymen." ... any source to share about that??

"Out of respect of the fine women who serve in armed forces around the world!"
+1

A small resume may come handy after such a (too) long thread:

1. Stating "No woman are present in the battelfield", the main argument against having female models because it will break realism, is untrue. Numerous members reported woman presence at the frontlines of their army, and the US army has recently accepted that woman can postulate for any role, included infantry (see the press for confirmation).
2. Most people agree that implementing female models is NOT URGENT, bugs and game mechanics fixes should have precedence.
3. Even if it is something to be foreseen sometime in the future, most people reported to be indifferent or positive with inclusion of female models (281 votes for - 172 against)
4. Several persons reported having voted AGAINST because they had the feeling the request was to have female models RIGHT NOW. They are not voting against having female models, but against immediate implementation (see also 2.)

Hope this helps.

@beardedcap: most people already agree with your statment.

@rogerx : :)

@Turtle:
"Also why does everyone think that there will be more female soldiers in the future? Where are they getting this idea from, there is nothing that suggests this."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/24/us-military-lifts-ban-women-combat
Already discussed... maybe it would be fair to also read what other people wrote before building a theory on wrong facts.

"This issue would be breaking realism for me and some others".
Polite form will be "some others and me", but placing you first denotes what importance others have in your view: peons.

"...if you can't understand that then you are not in my opinion mentally mature"
Yup, but your opinion is just that... not relevant.

Maybe retreat in the carapace is now the wise move to do, Turtle?

Because we understand that the proposal goes far more from just feeling satisfaction, and this extend eludes the redneck mind of an Australian herdsman dumber than his dog?

Glad too to have you onboard nes4day.

To extend what was said adding a new topic to the forum may help ease the current process. The proposal done in this topic by LadyBrecky is obviously linked to the fact that it is the only one that was available.

But if we have a new topic where to debate players' proposals for specific contents, to be implemented ONLY if BI sees it fit WHEN BI sees it to be the correct time to do it; it will be far more efficient.

"Hard core" testers like nes4day will no more be overwhelmed with messages not directly linked to game mechanics and BI will have a pool of suggestions already discussed between users, ready to use. And maybe BI will use this topic to have users' opinion on their suggestion.

Hope this will work!

Thank you nes4day, your position is cristal clear.

I agree fully that now game mechanics and engine optimization should be the top priority.

Right noted also you are not AGAINST the proposal, just proposing a better timeframe for implementing it.

But the proposal done has also importance, in the way BI will be aware of LadyBrecky request now and thus have plenty of time to properly plan when to include female models, instead of having it falling just at the end of development when the right spot is already in the past.

I'm also pretty sure that LadyBrecky will agree with the fact including female models should not be done today.

So we agree to agree... fantastic!

nes4day I agree with your point of view, except respectfully for "...there are people here who are claiming (implying in some cases) that BI is committing a hate crime of some kind by not having female soldiers in the game. Well, let me ask these people something..."

These people aren't at all interested about BI position, or whatever is not linked to them directly. They are just here with the aim to flame the thread, and are not mentally equipped with enough brain cells to properly answer your question. It is a total waste of your valuable time...

Do I resume your position right: this topic (and the request) has no immediate importance and better concentrate on the bugs and features?

If it is the case do you think that the final version will have lower quality if woman models are added at the end, when bugs and features are solved?

On a more seriuous note I saw the "100 barrier" has been lifted for votes, showing BI interest in what is said around.

So my personal point of view about LadyBrecky proposal, after reading adults input from this thread is:

1. Having the possibility to impersonate a woman character is a plus for the gameplay. In campains like "Harvest Red" where the main character stays between mission user may have the choice of gender. In campains like "OA" the leader may be sometime a woman.
2. I will like diversity by having some women NPC present in the player squad, providing it doesn't go to "GI Jane Harem".
3. Having woman models available is a huge plus for user scenarii.

OK, just my personal point of view that may change if any adult better proposal is made.

Reiber, do you know the term "loghorrea"? It is a diarrhea from the tongue, with endless sentences without structure or ponctuation signs. Simply put it is expressing emotions in one shot, without re-reading. Young childs are prone to loghorrea, but it tend to disapear rapidely when logic and sense of organisation emerge.

Please fetch a stick and go play with naizarak (he is somewhere below a rock, growling)and let adults discuss seriously. Thanks little buddy.

@Kumeda: as what you say also takes in account others arguments it is a proposal that may be accepted by all (exeception: morons, trolls and sexists, but who cares about those pathetic beings?)

I hope at the end a bit of your proposals + a bit of my proposals + a bit from their proposals will become a solid request LadyBrecky can present to BI, supported by a majority of members.

@Kumeda, regarding the future development of ARMA3 I don't fear too much they will take the right decision, even if this thread has its share of trolls.

I also think that most adults will agree with the following: currently US Army opens for woman all positions, providing that there is no change in current standards. At the beginning very few woman will meet those standards, but after 5 - 10 years there will be woman presence on the field, in a supposed 1/5 ratio.

As pointed out (STGIce) woman may prefer some roles to others (let's say marksman as opposite to heavy machinegunner) so the ratio may vary depending on situation.

So for a simulation that will take part in a 10 year future one or two woman per infantry group isn't unrealistic. It will not break the immersion and will be somewhat accurate.

Also for some scenario woman can be more present in desperate situation like what was seen in WW2 in russia. It will be nice to have models correctly implemented to do so.

Last but not least if anyone (man or woman) prefers to impersonate a woman in game it can be done without breaking the storyline.

And for a fun scenario if someone wants to create a harem of GI Jane it is afterall the creator problem and responsability.

naizarak please stop trying using basic manipulation tricks to troll again. It is so obvious that the "we" you're using is just a puny try to conceal your poor personality and revengeful arguments.

Do you really think people do not read your previous posts and cannot forge a clear view about who you are?

Time to find a rock and to hide below, troll!

I really think that with input from the players (minus the "Girls are so weak" pack of brainwashed) a consensus can be drawn. Frankly I think having female models will add immersion and possibilities for scenarii.

I assume that adults like SGTIce will agree to have those models available if it doesn't turn to "women everywhere" world and all may have useful suggestions about a wise use for great time in game.

Then let the developers decide what to do knowing what we think about it :)

After all using those models or not in scenario or servers is a matter of taste.

SGTIce is correct on several points:

1. Women in US Army MAY apply to combat position (like infantry) but standards will not be lowered for the cause;
2. SGTIce wants ARMA3 to be more a simulator, close to reality than a FPS game. And why not ?

Also STGIce doesn't stupidely bash other arguments, a contrario he takes those in account to refine his point of view.

So even if personaly I rather prefer ARMA3 to be a game than a harsh simulation, I understand also SGTIce point of view.

My only problem with this thread is definitively about the bunch of morons trolling around...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jan/24/us-military-lifts-ban-women-combat

Naziarak,isn't ARMA a game? Does any army train their men on ARMA??

Fascinating!

+1 Kumeda

So true that "[..and change is somthinge that often doesnt comes wanted]" when you read "There is a reason for male dominance throughout history..."

Corona2172, a so long answer... why? I'm certainly not "that" important, do I? Maybe if you get help you can get a better grasp on reality and quit the delirious world you constructed for you alone.

I really try to help you, and if you still feel the need to answer me and proove your point, please do. I won't be hurted.

BTW tell me why you fear woman so much?

Corona2172, there are specialists who can propose you a therapy... drooling on your keyboard like that doesn't do you any good.

Hope to see you better soon.

What a fight for nothing...

C'mon, LadyBrecky has the right to make a suggestion and maybe the severity level is not properly set but her suggestion isn't in anyway aggresive to someone or group of persons. Also she never said "All, use female models"

This threat is now a troll farm far past the Goodwin point...

So if you think that:

1. LadyBrecky can make a suggestion without being harassed,
2. Female models (or any other models) can be useful for further user scenarii (like resistance or any other purpose),
3. You can expose a point of view (like severity is too high, maybe better to see this suggestion later in development...) without flaming other's arguments,
4. You FULLY SUPPORT the right to everyone to make any suggestion without having a pack of morons taking pleasure to flame it

... then please let's discuss.

Others, like the brain dead who suggested to LadyBrecky to mod herself the models maybe they should be told that they can do their own scenarii without using woman or whatever skin color they dislike while eating a cheeseburger (and in the meanwhile real humans can have some holidays from that kind of *-/$).

Against stupidity the gods themselves fight in vain!

Gentlemen I must say I'm a bit surprised by some comments against woman. IMHO you guys must be a solid pain in the... neck while playing on a server and I hope never meet you in game.