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Fatique is unrealistic
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Description

Your latest update has made an already huge problem in Arma3 even worse. Your maps are way too big, traveling in or on vehicles/foot takes too long and now with being on foot the "new" fatique system tires you out in 20 feet or less of running forcing all users to walk which now takes 10 minutes to travel in open level ground 1k. Vehicles are no better since they are way too fragile a small wall which of course are all over the place will disable the wheels forcing all passengers to walk again for a long time. In single player mode everyone uses the 4x time compression to get anywhere even that takes a long time to travel the map. In multiplayer its changing the way people play no longer will medics travel even 1k to save another player because its just too long a walk. Since the AI doesnt suffer from any kind of fatique its creating a system where groups of players cannot support other groups because of the time it takes to walk to other places on the map. Given the horrendous size of the maps the time to run should be shorter. Players must carry alot of items because to resupply it just takes too long, vehicles can only carry a small amount of supplies about 10% of what a real truck even half the size of the ones in ARMA3 can carry. I mean really a truck can only carry 4 rifles and maybe 10 grenades? Rediculous.
Your new weapons aiming system is now even worse instead of making prone positions with tripods rock solid like in the real world they sway and move I guess because Arma3 doesnt use the laws of physics on this planet. On what planet does a tripod stable rifle move? How does a rifle shake so much when its making contact with the ground in 3 different places in the real world a gun using a tripod never moves because of breathing heavy. There are so many bugs in the game way too many to list here why dont you fix some of those bugs instead of making the game more unrealistic.

Details

Legacy ID
1472776538
Severity
None
Resolution
No Bug
Reproducibility
Always
Category
Fatigue
Steps To Reproduce

Decrease fatique by 150% make rifles unmovable while in prone position (except for recoil thats accurate). You should get rid of all sway anyway, I have bob effect set to zero like everyone else but still my character moves back and forth, swats at flies and checks his boots for I guess dog poo. All of these should not happen, in the real world when your at attention you never move even if a fly lands on you otherwise some higher rank is going to yell at you. Make the game more realistic.

Additional Information

I would fix these major bugs:
Nightvision fps lagg, voice of IP in all chats mega lagg, vehicle clipping, vehicle being too fragile, vehicles not being able to carry realistic cargo (not even close), medics not being able to hear players unless sometimes they are moved first, vehicle sounds not being able to be controlled example trying to talk to anyone while riding in a helicopter is impossible turning down the volume then also turns down volume for enemy firing which you need you need a vehicle volume control which of course everyone would set to zero, remove rediculous comments made by squad leaders at timed intravals like regroup or no ammo they have no purpose and are annoying, I would also remove about 50% of all keyboard commands we dont use them so why have them.

Event Timeline

There are a very large number of changes, so older changes are hidden. Show Older Changes

To be honest, a hardcore flight simulator isn't supposed to be fun or even enjoyable. It's usually frustrating, sometimes boring, and always extremely difficult and taxing. But the feeling of accomplishment is unreal, the feeling of satisfaction afterword is great.

totally agree on adding options for the servers so hosts can choose what level of fatigue and sway they want if it all, just like they have recruit servers with crosshairs to hardcore 1st person servers.

B00tsy added a subscriber: B00tsy.May 7 2016, 6:59 PM

Fatigue is okay unless you have to control an AI team. If you have units in your team it needs to be visible on screen what their amount of fatique is. Now it is impossible to see and causes issues if you send an AI team from A to B over a longer distance... they keep running and then go into the slowmo animation instead of stopping to refill their stamina and keep going to the next waypoint.. becomming easy tasrgets.

Well im not so sure you want fully realistic fatique or overally realistic fatique. This is not a fun feature. How does making the game slower and much hardier to move around a better game? Especially with multiplayer, AI never has any restrictions except when they reload, they see through things humans cannot see through. The fatique system puts more distance between COD/B4 users and makes it hard to get friends into the ARMA3 game system as its so alien to them. I guarantee that if Bohemia allowed multiplayer to turn on or off this fatique system it would be off on all servers just like many of the other "features" like head shake. As for reporting many other bugs in one posting the boxes asked me for things I would change so I listed them. Although I have changed my 2nd item from fixing the broken comms to having a seperate volume control for vehicles namely helicopters which is way to loud and makes it impossible to talk to anyone in TS3 while in a chopper. Yes I know you can turn down the overall volume but I still need to talk to people not using TS3 and to hear enemy shots.

i agree with heyvern69!!!!!!!
put us in charge to decide it what we want or need! so everyone would be happy!
let us decide fatigue & sway effect levels on our own like headshake and things like that!
btw i am one of that "more realistic guys" but this point should be make everyone who payed for this game happy!!!!!
also i think that fatigue and sway should dependent on the units skill settings.

The new fatigue system is great and makes you more depending on vehicles - as in real life.

Renz added a comment.Jul 22 2014, 7:26 PM

If people hate fatigue that much, you can always disable it :/
Create a trigger

Condition: true
Init: player enablefatigue false

This will disable fatigue for all players. Simple!

no one hate a fatigue system !!!!!!!
we are all "paying" users and many of us got a problem with that obtruding hardcore fatigue system!!!
and only off or on didn't make sense!
it should be an ingame option!!

gutsnav added a subscriber: gutsnav.May 7 2016, 6:59 PM

The new system is pretty realistic. You do realize that the soldiers are carrying over 50 lb of gear, and running over hills while shooting at enemy soldiers. If you're having problems, try running with your weapon down, don't run in a crouched position unless you have to (usually in firefights, so it doesn't matter there), and drop your ruck before an engagement. You won't have to drop the ruck on patrol, because all you're doing is walking. This update actually causes you to think, instead of just running around in a ghillie suit and an anti-material rifle with 4 anti tank mines in your ruck and a Javelin on your back.

I don't really get why everybody immediately jump to conclusions and thinks that if someone doesn't agree with them he is just some filthy casual coming from one of those public domination servers.
I want fatigue but i don't want it to be as extreme as it is now, it's just as simple as that.
As incredible as it may seem, there is a medium between the armchair commandos playing with just a bayonet and the casuals who go around with the bergen full of ATGMs, and given how this is a sandbox game WE should be the ones to decide how this works.
It's clear we'll never find an agreement, it would save everyone an endless amount of time to just provide us with the commands to manage this ourselves and call it a day.

After further games, agree with the author.
For exampe AT-Soldier after 20 seconds of movement is not able to move on.
Especially if the motion is on the hillside.
You need to give greater strength and endurance for each soldier/

Just give us the ability turn turn fatigue on or off in the game options. Its that simple. Everyone can enjoy the game no matter what side of the fence they sit on.

No, fatigue cannot be turned off in the options!
If you turn off at all, then the game will lose its originality and become similar to all the rest of the games( Simular COD or BF/

I think that all gamers were satisfied, it is necessary in the settings of the player, next to "SKILL", create a new, separate setting - "HEALTH".
It will be a physical health and stamina at the same time.
Note. Today we have only one setting - "HEALTH\ARMOR".
It is necessary to divide these values!
HEALTH - be health, phisical endurance, speed of sprint.
ARMOR - will only external armor(body armour, helmet)

i think we should go back to having unlimited sprinting, you know there is something wrong when BF4 did something more realistic than arma.

Vote here,
http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=20061
I think it there will be the best decision for all simultaneously!

Hey I have come up with a solution. As Bohemia came up with a boot camp to slowly train newbies into the game which of course was needed given the very harsh learning curve. Why cant Bohemia have a PT (physical training) as we say in the military where after successful completion one can run with marathon agility. A sort of increased stamina while those who fail it those out of shape couch potatoes have to run around with their bellies hanging out. Isnt this what Bohemia wanted in the first place to point out how out of shape military personal are? I dont think Bohemia will accept my olive branch as they tend to not listen to any of their users and do whatever they think will suck the fun out of their games. If you want a lesson on how not to make money in computer games examine Bohemia because there is no real fun in Arma3 its more like a job than an adventure.
Small example if Bohemia didnt want us to walk around the battlefield for long distances sometimes up to 30 minutes to cover a sector why would they remove all the civilian vehicles which of course we used in Arma 2 to get around more quickly? Is Bohemia trying to send an anti military message?

Your hypothesis seems to me fascinating)
I hope that all the same BI will listen to the users and later will think up the decision which can satisfy each player.

BI
listen to users

HAHAHA.

This comment would have been taken as a troll post against BIS, but that's not the case, i dont blame BIS just because nowdays, i have come to the realization that even if its not willingly BIS have become a very greedy company, that while making fun of other companies like EA ends up making the same mistakes and dividing their fanbase.

AD2001 added a comment.Aug 3 2014, 5:17 AM

People have just started trolling here. Can someone please close this ticket? It has twice as many downvotes as it has upvotes, so it's not going to happen anyway.

Renz added a comment.Aug 3 2014, 10:43 AM

Yes please close. This ticket isn't very helpful. It's even tagged as pointless lol

You tagged it that. Don't pretend you didn't.

AD, if you mean my comment, i dont consider it trolling

I agree with the OP in terms of the fatigue system being way too quick. I don't mind learning to keep fatigue in mind but with the current system for me it is just unbearable to even play the game.

I really liked the way it worked in Arma 2, but now I feel BI are taking drastic measures to slow down player movement and such.

Can it at least be toned down to somewhat more realistic levels? The time it takes before you can't even properly move anymore is ridiculous really. For me it's a real game breaker.

In the real world we dont carry so much items, but what Bohemia hasnt learned yet is you cannot simulate the real world. In ARMA3 players carry alot to deal with any situation in the real world you loadout for the mission specifics. You work as a team with your fellow soldiers in ARMA3 nobody works together at least in the public servers, if I run out of AT rounds would anyone give me another one doubtfull. Behemia needs to forget about micromanaging the play, and concentrate on the bugs. Like: Why does your pack lose some of its items when you die? This is totally unrealistic, why do some dead players get glitched and cannot be revived unless they are moved? Why does the helocopter glitch out and crash if you eject from the chopper? You cannot eject from a real chopper why is it allowed in ARMA3? Why do the comms barely work on a couple of channels, and not work at all on others? Why does the multiplayer servers lagg so badly even with I7 mega GPU computers, the single player doesnt lagg, I mean fps is way way down. I could go on and on with bugs some of which are hold overs from ARMA2 which agreed is a better game.

Reviving isn't part of the vanilla game. As long the server is good, your game should perform well.

It is on the servers I play on (reviving), doesnt matter which server you pick the fps is slow for alot of people ever since they switched from gamespy to steam.

"Ejecting" from a helicopter is simply bailing out. It's pretty obvious it's not intended to act like actual ejecting.
You must be playing on some pretty shitty servers, because I have never seen that kind of lag on the ones I play on. I always get 30-45 fps in multiplayer, and ~55 on single player medium-high settings.

If you think arma 3 sucks so much and say arma 2 is so much better, then go fucking play arma 2.

Agree with the servers, its hard to find ANY GOOD PLAYER in ANY MP server, and i am excluiding wastelands and altis life, just actual war ones, nobody communicates, they just pick as much of a specops uniform and vest they can get and fill it up with grenades, AT launcher, sniper, pistol, and sometimes an LMG instead. With optics and lasers and suppressors, of course!

ArmA 3 communiti has been actually bad, and the REAL proof is on the MP servers, mostly domination.

I even remember when i got into a server and the pilots were AFK, so i ran back to the teleporter point, when i saw a player running towards the helipads, i stop and say "hi" and he just shoots me. On spawn. For no reason. And then he does the same to everyone, next to him complaining that he got killed by others and wanted the admin to ban people.

gibonez added a subscriber: gibonez.May 7 2016, 6:59 PM

Fatigue system is fine.

Fatigue system is ugly! (v1.28)
The soldier in the Arma3 has a bad heart! Who sent the sick soldier at war? This soldiers are urgently need to be hospitalized!
In the game without transport, it is Impossible to move on the distance more 50-60 meters! Remove sick soldiers!

Developers! Please give settings of soldiers endurance!

I know - it is not a 100% solution - but if you don't want to disable fatigue but don't want to slow down to crawling speed you could place the following code in a init script running on the client:

while {true} do {

if (0.5 < getFatigue player) then {
    player setFatigue 0.5;
};
sleep 1.5;

};

Endurance needs to regenerate while walking not just lying down

giving the ability to do more short bursts of speed while continuing movemnt.

there is NO WAY that soldiers at peak physical fitness are out of breath after 20 feet jogging ....

completely unrealistic.

Also, why not take a leaf from DayZ and implement WATER BOTTLES....
to hydrate and refresh endurance.

you could have a GATORADE - DLC
that you can sell to newbies that want to carry 3-tonne of gear,
for faster endurance regeneration... or addin Camel-Backs (in place of assault packs) for longer running.

"but if you don't want to disable fatigue"
No! I don't want it to turn off! I think Fatigue should be in the game, but the soldiers must have more power, at least Х 2 times!

"Also, why not take a leaf from DayZ and implement WATER BOTTLES....
to hydrate and refresh endurance."

When you're under enemy fire is the most suitable time to drink water!?
In the game should be highly trained and healthful soldiers, otherwise must be special settings.

In real life water and food are just for when you are out for long periods of times, they are not used during combat.

Today fatigue system is bad.
It brings no pleasure from the game. Such realism only for cardio sick people. Today the soldier with ammunition in the backpack ran 30-40 meters and immediately panting from running and is unable to run further.
Further he is not running he only crawling as a worm.

I think It nonsense! A trained soldier should be run more in the 3-4 times before he completely tired.

Dear Developers! The appearance of the soldier does not meet his fatigue!
In the game we see slim soldiers, these soldiers not should get tired quickly.
If you do not want to change the system of fatigue, then redo 3D models of soldiers! Add them a big bellies are!
The weight of a soldier who quickly tires should be more 90-100 kg.
Only in this case, rapid fatigue will be to look realistic!

Now look what you guys have done.

We now have invincible super soldiers that hardly fatigue at all, even when carrying heavy gear. I hope you're all happy, because all you wasteland kids bullied BI into significantly reducing the fatigue.

You can run indefinitely when you're using the right stance :-)

Here are some tips...
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/feral_circus/discussions/0/35221031592918846/

Good tips Feral, I use the jogging method (rifle lowered one hand free) a lot. I think it covers ground quickly enough. Sprinting is really for emergency. This contrast adds depth to the game.

Bohemia added a subscriber: Bohemia.May 7 2016, 6:59 PM

Yep, fatigue is way far behind realism, my soldier cant run even as me in rea with handling (full backpack), he is runing as a pregent woman), while phorne i cant aim beacuse of weapon shakin, like soldier have parkinson. Please fix fatigue, reduce at least by 100%

"he is runing as a pregent woman"

Soldiers in the game most likely is not like a woman, but the man with obesity. I think, such realism only for cardio sick peoples.
Soldiers in the game moves as invalids, but it suits the majority of players.
I think, this issue is buried.

the fatigue system was designed by Bohemia fat asses, that is why it is realistic.

This ticket shows that Arma3 diehards would rather have a game that is highly irritating and frustrating for most people than a game that attracts a wider audience and generates more income for BIS.

Sure there are lots of workarounds to switch fatigue off if you are not playing online. But the fact is now that Arma3 is attracting a wider audience, playing vanilla Arma3 is a highly frustrating and at times annoying process for the majority of people. Couple the over the top fatigue and weapon sway effects to the poor network code and you have the three biggest stumbling blocks for Arma3's growth.

So the big question to the diehards who voted in favour of the current fatigue & sway system - do you want Arma3 to grow in popularity and evolve into a much better game or get bogged down. Because in my mind these 'features' as they are currently executed (Feb 2015) are extremely counterproductive and put the casual player off Arma3.

And before this ignites a whole lot of flames - I've played nearly 4000 hours of A3, a few thousand hours of each of OF, Arma, A2 etc. and fired many real weapons etc. Sure I'm no expert but to me Arma3 needs to find the balance between realism and playability and broad market appeal.

Based on a lot of feedback I've had on the Steam Workshop - there are a lot of people who, shortly after buying Arma3 just give up on the game and or regret their purchase - the primary reasons given - they don't like the fatigue & weapon sway system and the lack of a native respawn/revive option - these 'features' or lack of them are literally a game killer for most.

Everyone I've spoken to wants some sway and a little fatigue but nowhere near where the levels are currently set. The bottom line - BIS will never satisfy all of the people all of the time.

I second the suggestion made above - why not set the defaults much lower in the vanilla game and then add a server side feature that will allow server admins to set these settings the way their users prefer?

This would satisfy everyone and help Arma3 grow at the same time. Hardcore Arma3 players can therefore play on servers where the fatigue and sway are really high for example. Whilst the rest of us mortals can play on servers where these settings are less harsh /realistic?.

I really hope BIS implements this server feature / option it will solve all these issues. Then BIS might be able to get closer to satisfying more of the people more of the time.

Rick, you got the wrong idea, most people HATE the new sway system because its not fun, its not realistic, and its nothing short of annoying, even people who handle real guns can tell you the sway its fucked up.

But lets face it, the reason why ArmA is ArmA is because its not your typical mainstream game people buy and have fun, its a game made for a certain genre just to appeal a certain audience. No, ArmA hardcore fans DO NOT want the game to appeal to most gamers outside of the genre because that means ArmA will lose what made the game so special in the first place. That is also the reason why Arma 3 made part of the players angry, because its way more mainstream and watered down than the previous games.

@Dr Death - suggest you read people's message carefully before responding. I said the diehards seem to be the only ones that support the current system. I did not say most people like the current system.

As you are well aware - the Arma3 player base is now significantly larger than it was - casual players now make up the bulk of the player base. And as you rightly said regarding Arma's roots; A3 wouldn't be in this position had it not been for it's original 'niche' or targeted positioning.

However irrespective of how hard the A3 diehards try to protect the sacred Arma milsim positioning - the game has already moved on, in it's overall appeal and scope. It is a sandbox after all - and as you know some of the modding community seized the opportunity to expand it's appeal and capture some RPG territory.

I am sure BIS has them to thank for broadening A3's scope of appeal and a related increase in sales. The fact is you can make of the Arma3 platform what you will - a milsim, an RPG, a flight sim etc Arma3 is now attempting to cater to all these gaming segments. It must be a very tricky balancing act keeping all these different player segments happy. Perhaps the A3 platform will one day split into different offerings - who knows.

Getting back to this ticket - one has to question why, given the broader gaming style and appeal of A3, does BIS continue to lock down critical default settings like fatigue and sway which are literally game breakers for most?!

Heyvern69 and Mickeymen hit the nail on the head by suggesting that game breaking settings like these should be set server side and/or client side if playing single player. And I would add given the wider appeal of Arma3 they need to add native support for revive and respawn - they need to be simple settings like checkboxes or sliders on the client or server. And obviously keep the revive/respawn scripting functions for mission makers.

It's only by placing control in the players hands that BIS will be able to satisfy more of the people more of the time.

The fatigue is perfectly fine.

It puts an importance on what you decide to carry and on vehicles for transportation.

Only thing that might need tweaking is the Recovery rate it is far too fast when prone.

Not sure why some people expect an arcade game out of arma.

@gibonez - because Arma has evolved and is much broader in appeal than purely a milsim. And it's a stupid argument to say by allowing server admins or the single player control over these settings will turn Arma into an arcade game!

By giving the user or admin the ability to adjust these settings allows for all tastes.

"The fatigue is perfectly fine."
"Not sure why some people expect an arcade game out of arma."

Many people no wants to make A3 arcade game!
For example, I don't like arcade games.
Yes, fatigue within gameplay is great thing!
I can't imagine A3 without fatigue and without weapons, sway!
But the player can do nothing to change these values and people only talk about it.
DO NOT DELETE, BUT TO GIVE THE ANY ABILITY TO CUSTOMIZE!
And most people resent the fact that they can't modify this values, but not off within the game.
Before I even suggested such a setting in the game: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=20061
BIS, Just let the settings and it is not necessary to turn off completely.

When the soldier gasps after every 50 meters and can no longer move, then it is puzzling for me! In real life, I can run for much longer, why can't I configure it for themselves. I am forced to play for the heart-sick soldier, which stop every 50 meters.
Now imagine, if A3 will play a good sportsman!
What he will experience feelings? What to do to him, if in the game there are no settings endurance. This athlete will simply feel hostility towards to this game.

Or sway of weapons, also works as if the soldiers drunk.
This is too exaggerated and and realistic only for drunken soldier.
And again the player can not cope with this.
Even the skill level does not affect these parts.
BIS could eventually make noticeable effect of skill level on fatigue and sway. But there is no way to change these two values.

Renz added a comment.Feb 19 2015, 11:24 AM

Current fatigue and sway is ok

I hated it at first, but I got used to it.
For some strange reason it makes killing people more intense. It's exciting this way.
Now when I switch back to mods which reverts the original fatigue, it feels uncomfortable :(

Settings for fatigue seems unnecessary though.
Admins can use scripts in their missions to reduce fatigue if desired.
I currently have a script for one of my missions which caps fatigue to 50%. Works great

I would create a noticeable dependence on the skill level.
For example, if the skill is 100%, then fatigue and sway only 50-60%

Renz added a comment.Feb 19 2015, 11:26 AM

Lots of Customisability can be done through scripts

Why complicate the game scripts? The game should be easy to manage.
Many people have an aversion to scripts.
all ingenious must be simple...

Renz added a comment.Feb 19 2015, 11:38 AM

I download my scripts from the internet. Most come with clear instructions to implement so It's not too hard.

Skill level idea seems like a good idea

Relying on mods to control critical aspects of gameplay like weapon sway and fatigue (and revive for that matter) is tantamount to suicide imo since this issue is at the very core of user enjoyment and experience.

And the bulk of Arma3 users who exclusively play in single player mode do not wish to use mods or want to learn scripting, and frankly I don't think they should have to - simply to make the Arma3 experience enjoyable.

We all know that many mods are incompatible with each other and cause significant performance degradation and instability, not to mention the fact that many mods are buggy (take a good look at the rpt file when many mods are running).

Arma3 regularly takes the blame (unfairly in this case) for poor performance and instability due to this issue. Mod reliance is a double edged sword, with one blade slightly duller than the other.

That is why I support the suggestion that core gameplay aspects like fatigue and sway be hard coded with the additional ability to adjust these settings to allow for added flexibility at both server and or client level.

And like mickeymen and Renz mention above - these settings can easily be LINKED to player skill levels. In MP a server admin could therefore set the minimum skill level for their server. Users would therefore be familiar with gameplay restrictions based on the skill level required. A high skill level would for example have more realistic (?) fatigue and weapon sway. Server skill settings should not preclude higher skilled players from joining a server with lower skill requirements and visa versa.

In SP a novice user would for example experience very little fatigue and weapon sway allowing new users to enjoy the experience whilst evolving into experienced players. An experienced player would for example have more realistic fatigue and sway levels.

Rick, you basically say that ArmA 3 should move from their fanbase to a wider and more profitable fanbase just because the old diehards fans can mod the game like it was before? Because you are wrong, Arma 3 is not an arcade game, but it moved so much away from the previous serious milsim genre from before that its alienating both old fanbase and people who dont expect to learn how to play the game from 0.

Renz, i respect your opinion about sway and (mostly) fatigue, but i want to know why do you think the modern sway is good, i just cant stand it, even with less than 5% fatigue just walking and aiming can move the gun everywhere, making urban combat just impossible.

Game is a joke with unrealistic fatigue and weapon swaying.... I mean so many times you do a short distance run, then look down weapon sights.. it feels like you are controlling a fat ass who has been drinking all day ...and night.

so stupid and it really does take you out of the immersion with it being so unrealistic.

and what rick says about modding and how it should be customizable it effing well should like that.

Shields added a subscriber: Shields.May 7 2016, 6:59 PM

I'd like to see you run a kilometer in full combat gear. The difference between what you think is realistic and what actually IS realistic seems massive. This is a military simulator not a f""king arcade game so go back to COD if thats what you desire.

Even though I am in favor for continually improving the fatigue system, I generally like the current system and agree with Shields. I think people are underestimating how hard it is to run on uneven ground going up or down hills with equipment.

Just pay attention how steep some of the terrain in Arma3 is, I very much doubt soldiers in real life run in those places unless in short bursts in combat circumstances.

Don't forget that soldier's fitness is also being able to run after marching for hours, standing guard, bad food, bad sleep. You can't assume soldiers start their mission fresh just after returning from holiday.

A final point is that Arma3's terrain is compressed. All distances are shorter, because the game might get too boring (for travel distances) and suffer performance otherwise. This could lead to the perceived effect of fatigue seem exaggerated.

@Dr Death - I'm confused you seem to deliberately misread my posts. I am suggesting that since Arma3 has expanded it's user base significantly it needs to become more accommodating for different game play styles. The only reasonable and safe way to do this without alienating parts of it's fan base is to add a means for players to adjust fatigue and sway (maybe based on skill level) to a level that suits their personal needs. This will satisfy everyone.

"people are underestimating how hard it is to run on uneven ground going up or down hills with equipment."

I do not argue that to run with equipment very hard. Yes!
But why do you all constantly talk about the heavy equipment that have soldier!??
Even without heavy equipment (only with rifle, vest, helmet) the soldiers in the game can't run more than 45-50 seconds!
I specifically noticed the time.
Try to place the soldier (without heavy equipment on the back) on a flat plane and use the running.
Soldiers will not able to run after 45-50 seconds!
Do you think this is normal!? It is not the soldier is a sick man.
Soldiers must be young and healthy. otherwise, this soldier will not get in the army...

Yes, today Fatigue system is not as bad as it may seem, but there are no variations do this ability variable for deferent units!
For me it a main problem!

I will try to do some light weight running in Arma on one of the airfields later today, maybe you're right, I'm curious. I mostly do the running in game in mixed terrain in combat situations.

Don't forget that soldiers carry a lot of their equipment on their body (plates, ammo etc.). No backpack doesn't necessarily mean light weight.

I found this quote while searching for equipment weight of US infantry:

'[weight] Depends on the job and mission. Most of the time rucks aren't carried anymore. Take a simple combat patrol, walking. Over your regular uniform you got your knee and elbow pads. you got your helmet. You got your IBA with plates. The plates alone are damn near 30 pounds. Then you got all the pouches and stuff you add to that. Ammo, at least 210 rounds in 7 magazines for an M4. You got grenades, papers, medical packs, water in your camel back, camera, knife, flashlight, extra ammo if your a machine gunner. The list could go on. I don't even know the exact weight, never really worried about jumping on a scale over there. It's a lot and it's hard as hell to move. Especially climbing over things and getting in and out of trucks. Add in 100+ degree heat and your having a bad day.
Source(s): been there, done that.'

The equipment weight seems to range from 20 - 70 kg, average about 40 kg.

So this veteran says getting in and out of trucks is hard for professional soldiers. Maybe we should be glad BIS isn't putting this feature in Arma3 ;-)

It's a futile exercise - trying to prove/disapprove or agree/disagree with the current fatigue / sway settings in Arma3! For every one person that agrees there's another that doesn't! We need the ability to adjust these settings the way we want them and this includes server admins.

@joostSidy
Thanks for the info.
Yes, try the test on the airfields.

Yes probably weight of filly ammunition is great, But somehow people can have different physical abilities and different training.
I hope no one will argue!
I think, in any case, ARMA3 required variations in this ability/

@RickOShay
Totally agree!

"I'd like to see you run a kilometer in full combat gear. The difference between what you think is realistic and what actually IS realistic seems massive. This is a military simulator not a f""king arcade game so go back to COD if thats what you desire. "

What part of run a short fucking distance do you not get?!?! a short distance is not a fucking kilometer you fantard! I literally mean a run to the other side of a fucking room! Having to endure such stupid and unrealistic weapon sway is not realistic you clots!

Idiots like you only help to keep the game using such stupid and poorly customizable game mechanics. That serve no purpose to immerse the user into the game as much as they do to take them out because of how stupid it is trying to keep a reticule somewhat center, its like a stupid minigame in itself. Compounded by most players average fps problems and netlag in this game.. and you have one unnecessarily stupid feature that most server admins and singleplayer users would love to just nerf or atleast tone down, without the effing hassle of mod scripts.

Renz added a comment.Feb 21 2015, 10:04 PM

(*Grabs popcorn*)

Unless you're running around in your ghillie suit carrying 15 mags and a titan launcher you should not encounter such problems. Sadly there is no cure for stupidity ;)

Fact is you only need a bare minimum loadout to notice the joke that is the fatigue and weapon sway.

You just need to pick up an MX, no need for anything else, go on a tactical jog aiming down sights with the rufle for like 25 meters, stand still, and watch the sight. It doesn't even has to be a scope.

Real life nato here(OF1). the fatigue system is bs. I have been carrying 60 kilos(130 lbs) on my back and did better than ingame(with just a rifle, sunglasses and clothes)

20 feet with light load, and you need to rest? Who the fuck sends someone with astma to active duty?

Our regulear military requires you to have 50 kilos on your back, which is 110lbs. Just to qualify out of first "base camp". AKA When you are 18.

To be fair, i think it is 40 kilos now. (around 90 lbs) To accomodate women.

It is literally easier in real life.

Look, Its easy.

  1. dont kit your unit out with a shit ton of gear.
  2. lower your weapon!!!
  3. use combat pace!!!!
  4. SFTU and play the Fucking Game..

I honestly have NOT noticed any significant change in the fatigue system. I guess only because i follow the step above.

YOU CANNOT run around .....
YOU CANNOT kit your unit to the fucking gills...
YOU HAVE TO USE YOUR BRAIN.

I can have my full ingame kit. on my avatar. and i have NO problem making my movements around the battlefield. AND if i get fatigued... I know its because i was irresponsible with my movement.

Here's another aspect.. most people carry backpacks... wen you get into heavy combat find a suitable place for your pack and drop it. mark it on the map.

The bottom line is it may be "unrealistic" or "extreme", however, me and many people in my group, dont have any issue moving around the battle field.

ps it is actually a part of our recruitment process that they have the patience to walk long distances. So, during our BCT/recruitment we walk from each training depot to the next. These is over 2k from each other.

Secondly, when we approach an ao, we land a minimum of 1-2 k from the EDGE of the marked hostile area. And then WALK IN....

So basically you fanboys like an unrealistic fatigue system.

I dont like unrealistic fatigue systems, but i dont mind that much.

@Lordprimate: I believe there are more casual gamers playing this game than hardcore realism unit type of people. So yeah, I don't think looking at this particular issue from a realism unit point of view is adding to a solution to the problem. Nevertheless, you did give some good things people can do about it. I am using them as well.

Having that said, the fatigue should be an option. I think RickOShay has a very good point, give people the opportunity to adjust the settinmgs the way they want them to be. I for one am running two Arma 3 servers and if I had the opportunity to get rid of this really poorly executed fatigue system I would. Yes, you can switch it off in a mission, but it is a general setting we need, for both local game play and server game play.

Again I repeat - it's a futile exercise - trying to prove/disapprove or agree /
disagree with the current fatigue / sway settings in Arma3!

For every one person that agrees there's another that doesn't! We need the
ability to adjust these settings the way we want them and this includes server admins.

No, "just let the admins decide" its not an universal choice, admins are not coders or actual feedback, the game must be in a certain shape, admins should only influence in server related stuff.

I think they should add an editor module to allow us custom settings.
At least everyone is free to do it their way in their missions without being forced to have either fully punitive settings or disable fatigue altogether.

Relying on mods to control critical aspects of gameplay like weapon sway and fatigue (and revive for that matter) is tantamount to suicide imo since this issue is at the very core of user enjoyment and experience.

And the bulk of Arma3 users who exclusively play in single player mode do not wish to use mods or want to learn scripting, and frankly I don't think they should have to - simply to make the Arma3 experience enjoyable.

We all know that many mods are incompatible with each other and cause significant performance degradation and instability, not to mention the fact that many mods are buggy (take a good look at the rpt file when many mods are running).

Arma3 regularly takes the blame (unfairly in this case) for poor performance and instability due to this issue. Mod reliance is a double edged sword, with one blade slightly duller than the other.

That is why I support the suggestion that core gameplay aspects like fatigue and sway be hard coded with the additional ability to adjust these settings to allow for added flexibility at both server and or client level.

And like mickeymen and Renz mention above - these settings can easily be LINKED to player skill levels. In MP a server admin could therefore set the minimum skill level for their server. Users would therefore be familiar with gameplay restrictions based on the skill level required. A high skill level would for example have more realistic (?) fatigue and weapon sway. Server skill settings should not preclude higher skilled players from joining a server with lower skill requirements and visa versa.

In SP a novice user would for example experience very little fatigue and weapon sway allowing new users to enjoy the experience whilst evolving into experienced players. An experienced player would for example have more realistic fatigue and sway levels.

...if I finally discover a server that doesn't use the defaulty retardo fatigue and weapon sway mechanics, I will have finally found a server worth playing on.

I'd even like an rpg system where it is possible to level up agility and reduce fatigue and weapon sway.... not the other way around

the defaults for this do not make a fun game, or even a realistic sim.

DenisP added a subscriber: DenisP.May 7 2016, 6:59 PM

The fatigue system is affected by the load you're carrying. Let's take a look at what the conventional soldier is carrying (the base uniform weighs next to nothing, so we'll be leaving it out):

First of all, you have the helmet. You can expect a decent combat helmet to, on average, weigh around 1.5kg.

But you need more protection than that if you expect to survive a hit, don't you? So add a plate carrier. Let's say this weighs 12kg.

Now you'e decently protected, and ready to take inventory! You're a conventional rifleman, so you'll get a standard assault rifle, say you're BLUFOR (which is a cliché, I know), you'll get an MX rifle. An ACR (which the MX is based upon) weighs 3.6kg. You'll neeed magazines. Add 1kg for each. Let's say you take seven, which would be the most common amount carried by each soldier. Want a scope? Add 200g for a holographic one.

However, chances are you might run out of ammo, and if you do, it's nice to have an extra weapon at hand. Therefore you'll go with a P07, the standard-issue BLUFOR sidearm. This is based on the Walther P99 9 mm, and adds another 600g. You'll want magazines for it. These weigh 100g each. Take three. You'll also be bringing two grenades and two smoke grenades of different colours. The M67 grenade weighs 400g, and a smoke grenade weighs around 500g, judging by the weight of an AN M18.

Add another kilo for miscellaneous items (watch, compass, map, radio), a kilo for NVGs and 250g for one FAK.

Now it's math time! I use a calculator.

1.5kg
12kg
3.6kg
7kg
0.2kg
0.6kg
0.3kg
1.8kg
1kg
1kg
0.250kg

29.25kg

29.25kg, just for the basic equipment of a conventional rifleman! And that's without a backpack. Let's round it off and say that you carry 29kg. Carrying this, you're good IF you know how to deal with fatigue. Now, there are different walking paces, and each of these have a different impact on your soldier's fatigue. There's the walking-, jogging-, running- and sprinting pace. With your weapon lowered at the walking pace you'll slowly regenerate stamina, and at the sprinting pace, you'll be giving everything. Do you really think you can sprint for long carrying nearly 30kg of equipment? And that's as I've stated before, the equipment of a conventional rifleman without a backpack. There's no AT launcher, no special weaponry, just an assault rifle and a sidearm.

The game bases itself on average soldier performance, which means that fatigue is equal for every character. If two units in-game are set to carry the exact same equipment and do the exact same task, oyu can expect both of them to finish it at the same time, if not accounting for variabels. Sure, there are athletes in real life that can carry an unimagineable amount of equipment and still perform well, but as I've said, the game bases itself on average soldier performance.

So a tip for you, OP, and any supporters. Control your movement. Don't sprint unless you have to. It's a military simulator, a game that requires patience, and exhausting yourself will only get you killed.

Tl;dr: Get the fuck out of ArmA.

I guess now is a good time to tell you that I'm downvoting.

Renz added a comment.Mar 14 2015, 10:29 AM

Fatigue should now be even more managable with the new weapon deployment (ie. bipods) and weapon resting BIS is introducing to vanilla.

Koala added a comment.Jan 28 2016, 8:51 AM

I have closed the ticket.

The fatigue got a major overhaul.

If you have any actual fatigue related problems please use the feedback tracker.