listening or transmitting voice over global chat channel almost everytime stutters. just right now i tested it with some guys on official ZEUS server (my ping was 70, the guy i tested with was 7ms). and it stutters beyond any recognition.
- Legacy ID
- Operating System
- Windows 7
join a low-ping server
notice that you can't understand anything because it stutters a lot
it doesn't matter if the server is 60 people or just 20, it stutters everytime.
From what we've gathered, Desync seems to shoot up when the chat starts getting laggy. As far as we're aware it is not to do with server load because it was working fine when we spawned 100+ AI in before the patch and afterwards, it's still choppy. We also tried it under various numbers of players (5 - 20) and the results of people who had lagged VoN were inconsistent.
I can confirm this as well. The weird thing is that you'd expect the server to be maxed out on CPU because it only happens past a certain number of players, but the task manager was showing none of the cores maxing out. We run a heavy mission: "BECTI0.97 (modified)" and it starts acting up for some players at ~ 15 players on a 4 core 3,2 GHz / 8GB / 1GBit server.
Server frame rate was ~ 8 to 12 fps at the times when it occurred.After the 1.18 patch I had expected that the multi threading might increase load in order to up the frame rate to something acceptable (20 fps+). One would expect that the load would to go up to ~ 90%, but it was running at ~ 60% CPU load.
It might be that it's the clients that have the problems transmitting, not the server relaying. On the whole I'm a bit surprised that Arma 3 is not running a bit more greedily to aid performance after the MT update.
BTW, it's not just global, it's all the channels on our server that send to one side as well. (commander and side)
This is not restricted to global chat, we use command chat extensively and group chat. This was definitely not an issue before the 118 patch.
Your probably trying to reproduce this issue in a LAN environment, try reproducing it on Dwardens CZ servers in a WAN environment. The higher the player count the more likely this is going to occur. Some players do not suffer, I personally don't but I do have a good connection and plenty of bandwidth, so this may be caused by limited bandwidth on some players.
I have a query on voip too.
Once the server has passed initial data from and too the clients, their IP etc, is von then purely peer to peer or do von packets still pass through the server ?
I don't see any difference.
I'm expecting a busy public server tonight which uses only VON while ingame.
What data do you want collecting ?
I can do wireshark logs etc, any partcular filter you need applying?
I can also do a text log dump from Freds Arma3 server app
I would say no difference, but our server doesn't fill up to this level every day, so I can't just go on and verify this right now. The times that it happened we were using side/com most of the time.
in my case, while playing zeus on official servers, the global chat stuttered but the others were okay. when playing wasteland, both global and side chat are stuttering but group/direct works okay. It's not like it starts to lag and every channel goes stuttering.
When a player initially starts to speak, its very stuttery. If the player continues to transmit after about 5 seconds it starts to improve. After 10 seconds in most cases it then comes through clear and unbroken.
It's as if the packets are trying to find the correct path and then eventually they do or the bandwidth they require for von is somehow being adjusted from "not enough" to okay.
This could explain why (am assuming you are testing over lan) you are not seeing this on your test rigs
I've started doing this during the unit selection screen phase before the mission is launched. So that should rule out missions having an effect on this.
I ask all the group leaders, one at a time to continuously speak until i request they stop. Eventually they come through clear and unbroken and this seems to work every time. (Who the hell voted against this ?)
Does that same mission yield the same result on different server configs? How about user configs?
Missions can be set up in different ways making the load they put on servers very different. Maybe under low load situations it resolves itself, but under high load situations it might not.
Some more information on this, whens its worse and when it gets better. This information relates to the same server Terox is on about. We usually do pre-briefings before we start missions, during role selection. At this step VOIP is horrible for 90% of the players logged on, while one or two players could have perfect coms for everyone. When pre-brief is finished and the mission has started, all players spawn at the same location, within 20m of each other, VOIP chop continues at this stage but can better it self at this stage. What we noticed, which may help you resolve this quicker, was that if we moved our squad away from direct coms range of the other players, our team leader which none of us could make out before we moved, was suddenly clear on group channel. This correlates with other reports, where the issue gets resolved or better when the different sections deploy and get spread out across the map.
Edit: Also, this has been the case on two different servers, different hardware, different world location, same mission or different missions, doesn't matter.
This is still an issue, any update on a solution?
a few days ago, the voip started acting incredibly oddly, it was like slowing down the speed of a record then speeding it up. Every client experienced the same effect.(Kids wont understand this, only knowing about cd's)). This happened once for a few seconds at most. It may have a bearing on the issue raised in this ticket, it may not and it hasn't reproduced itself since.
This is quite a major bug for us and i believe for a lot of others who rely on
ingame VOIP during gameplay
@Ocf, you need to reread my replies. I stated this occurs before the mission starts, and it is for every mission on 2 different servers.
It occurs during unit selection screen before the mission is launched, during the briefing screen and also in game
Typically with somewhere between 30 and 50 players.
It was not a problem before the 118 patch and it still exists in the 122 patch
Also got VON Problems since the latest patch. Only affects the Group, Side and Global Channels though, Direct and Vehicle Channels still work great. The sounds stutter a lot if someone uses one of the mentioned channels, no matter how many players are connected.
I purchased the game a few days and have had the same experience. Side & global severely stutter regardless of server or ping (problem just as pronounced on 30 ping servers as it is on 100 ping servers). Once in awhile 2 or 3 people on a server are able to speak perfectly clearly while the majority continue to stutter.
I hope you can find a solution - KoTH is incredibly frustrating with broken voip.
I just came back from a few months break time from playing. I am on my normal co-op server (it restarts every 6 hrs to maintain decent performance) and lots of people are comming through as stutterring really bad and other times they are fine. Normally I attribute this to people who don't use push to talk buttons but it seems to occur to anyone intermittently.
- The stutter seems to occur in any of the channels at random
A fix for this issue may be too much load on the voice server; it could be as simple as reducing the codec quality in terms of a quick and dirty fix.
At least until something can be done to fix the underlying issue; besides, voice comms don't need to be as clean as they are.
The encoder settings are definitely set to high quality / bit-rate; it's like listening to FM when all we really need is Shortwave or AM.
By contrast even SiriusXM Radio's music channels doesn't sound as good as the comms in Arma III and we don't really need to broadcast music over side chat do we? lol
Just wanted to confirm. It's still there, it's very common and very annoying. Seems mainly (only?) global and side channels are affected.
It's since 1.22 and has never been there before.
It may appear on every server, no matter what ping, fps and number of players.
Join a server.
Go into the middle of nowhere (out of direct range)
Populate one side with >= 20 players.(the more players receiving the worse it gets)
Speak on sidechat/global/command (broadcast channels)
VON is received choppy.
Server side Settings of Von Quality in steps of 1-0, 11-20 and 21-30 seem to have no effect on choppy/stuttering VON.
I use to frequent a co-op multiplayer server where you'd get this one guy who would lead the charge using in game audio comms. It was a pretty cool experience with him coordinating with the mortar team, ground forces, and air strikes. Why is a feature that worked fine, what a year ago?, since become a huge failure. I'm old enough to know that things go wrong and bugs occur. I'm patient with these things but come on. You've been busy with adding DLC's and fixing issues but this has been left in limbo.
Dunno. Maybe they sliced network optimizations right through globally defined chat somehow? All other chat channels (I think) are defined locally. Hence, maybe the global/side playback function is somehow checking intermittently for a return 0 from all players on the network during playback?
I don't have the code in front of me, so it's not like I can tell you, or even guess for that fact unless I could read hex or binary. ;-)
Ah, the Seven Wonders of closed source code! You never know what you're going to get! (Except you're always assured to always receive the never ending phone calls from phone solicitors, wanting to gut your heart out. And I've yet to hear a phone solicitor stutter.)
A good reference for this is to check out one of the EUTW servers (use filter in server browser.)
There is usually one of them at full capacity starting from late afternoon (GMT+1).
You can observe lagging voip in the following channels:
- Global channel
- Command channel
- Side channel
It will work fine for:
- Group channel
- Vehicle channel
- Direct communication
Please try to fix this for the next patch. As mentioned by lot of people, this kills teamplay on multiplayer servers.
We've been using that "Fix" if you can call it that for a while now.
It's as if the packets are being queued up (Which doesnt make sense unless they are tcp) then all of a sudden a burst comes through as if you've speeded up the recording, once the burst comes through everything is then fine for that player.
By holding the microphone down you are basically transmitting "Quiet noise" so its not obvious that this occurs.
One other pointer is.
A player suffering from this can have stopped transmitting several minutes before you actually hear their transmission end. This we have verified over and over again via teamspeak.
This has now got to be one of the top priority MP bugs surely.
Take the hit for once and buy a teamspeak license and integrate it into the game. It would be a fantastic feature to have the Task force radio or ACRE system in game with preset voip channels
I previously already mentioned here or elsewhere, this seems to have started occurring about the same time they rewrote code for optimizing execution due to the popular slow framerate bug. Therefore, you can likely see the optimizing occurring within the globally defined variables, while there is no problem within locally defined variables. Likely this further has to deal with optimizing automatic intelligence (ie. AI), as those would be globally defined variables. If you also notice when you see similar network lag or "desync", the sound on global/side chat is also similar on playback, or stutters.
I do not think TeamSpeak is a viable solution for communications per the following:
- There's no indication of who is speaking. Nobody knows how to talk on a real radio system by first indicating who they are, and who they're talking to. (ie. Amateur Radio)
- TeamSpeak creates odd or strange activity while using alongside Saitek's Profiling software. I forget the bug as I've stopped using the Saitek Profiling software, but I think it has to do with direct access somewhere and will cause a blue screen or operating system crash and reset when encountered. Many bugs seem to persist and go unfixed.
As such, TeamSpeak is great for listening to the girls chat away.
Personally, I'm biased toward vanilla solutions and at most scripting. Requiring a player to get many other XYZ plugins and/or applications, significantly deters player involvement.
There's already an open bug concerning integrating something similar to ACRE within ARMA 3. I gander, this might be a possible next feature to be implemented as it is quite popular.
I am guessing, because Arma 3 using UDP connectivity in multiplayer, the laggy voice chat might be the result of lost packets and Arma 3 doesn't have a packet tracer to ensure that every data packet sent from a sender has reached it's destination. Easy solution would be to move voice chat to TCP connectivity, a harder would be to implement CRC for current UDP connectivity.
Also, implemintation of compressed data would be nice, this would make voice chat flexible, in case sender gets slow connectivity (for example Skype is really good at reducing sound quality when sender gets a slow connectivity)
I was messing around a few nights ago monitoring up and down bit rates of my network interface.
If I'm not mistaken, I saw similar up/down bit rates when talking within ARMA 3 voice chat as compared to TeamSpeak. So one should expect voice chat to be as clear as when using TeamSpeak with those bit rates.
On the flip and I keep forgetting to mention, I doubt if many have utilized digital two-way radios within a wide area network (ie. 5-10 square miles), but the audio quality within the game is still far better than that of real life digital radios! (Aside from this bug concerning packet loss.) Fact is, most do not know how to talk on a radio, which further creates over use (or stress) on the voice chat engine within the game.
Can we all slander the guy whom invented the script to hurt/injure players whenever they activate chat when tuned to Side/Global chat? (ie. Two accidental chat key presses while tuned to Side chat and the player dies.)
I encountered this script on Engin/Ingin 69 server.
This is exactly likely why BI will not provide hooks for disabling the channel for (child) server owners, as doing so deters socialization and makes game play worse. (Give's BI's game a bad impression for players.)
Although as irritating as Global/Side chat channels being broken, it's even far worse to implement a hack that is not well tested or engineered correctly! And using or abusing the injure functions is a bad response for when more experienced typers whom always have their finger hovering above this key on the keyboard!
And to think, some servers are not effected by this bug nowadays, while some are or some individuals are. So likely something within the firewall settings of players and servers is the cause, and something with optimizing the runtime executable provoked this bug even further.
its all to do with the number of players on the server RogerX, not many servers have 40-50 players on at any one time, this is why I suspect some servers report no issues and am not sure if it is actually packetloss, as just before the voip clears up, the voip chat from an individual comes through at an increased speed, like speeding up an old record on the record player. That to me looks more, like a queue of data backing up and then suddenly surging through.
This all started happening when voip started to use the game port, initially it used its own port
Isn't this fixed yet?
Every update so far has failed to fix this trivial bug!
Bug #25342 "Possible fix for laggy and choppy VON/VoIP channels" looks like a duplicate, but at least provides a possible solution.
Fixing VON should have been a very high priority task.
Note I say should, as its been broken for so long that the ArmA playerbase has already been dented by such a deteriorated ability to socialize ingame. I personally have a friend who stopped playing for good, after being shouted at to "Get off side! its lagging! shut up!".
Any (good) MP game designer knows how important it is to be able to communicate with one another, in terms of player retention and game popularity.
'The social' is a very important principle to nurture in game design, and a broken VON really impacts beginners and newbies from getting connected and socializing in the community.
Sure us 'vets' know about Teamspeak and related plug-ins. But I first entered 'the community' through VON chat in the beta, before it was broken.
For 18 months now, the state of VON and in-game CHAT actively discourages communication between newbies more experienced members. Try to speak on VON, no one can hear you and you get yelled at. Try to type, and BattlEye swallows up your text with its systemChat spam.
We are two years after game launch, so it's history now. Still worthy of a fix, but the community has already been heavily impacted.
I say this as someone who has 'been there done that' as both a server admin (christmas day 2013 there were over 200 players on our community servers), and as one of the core developers of Invade & Annex with AhoyWorld.
I myself am too much frustrated about this bug. Immersive Tactical Gaming in ArmA on Public servers (Where not everyone is on Teamspeak) is not possible anymore. IMHO There could be another 1000 great DLCs and beautiful new Islands. I don´t care - as long as the main gameplay is disrupted by this Communication issue, i won´t join anymore. Staring at the chatbox typing and reading while flying NOE etc.- no sorry. It´s just impossible. I personally gave up hope.
Again as I just remembered when reading the recent comments just now, this bug occurred just after the developers publicly pushed it's initial attempts at coding optimizations, to try to satisfy the number one voted bug concerning the game not making full use of system resources.
I recall the rise of this bug specifically due to extensively monitoring the developer's log during Alpha, Beta then early Stable releases. And then the initial push/commits of optimizations within the developer branch. And then just after the push to stable branch, this bug arose. I now recall I also likely made mention of this scenario as a possible cause of this bug likely early within this bug's comments as well.
This bug is also tagged along with Bug #15987 "Multiplayer Issues Central Hub", and also lists de-sync map and 3D reality issues. Hopefully with a little noise, this gets fixed for Christmas's stable patch.
No, its been stated its too hard to fix and time spent on finding out what you are playing is more important (2nd bit my dig;) ). I suggest the VON feature is removed completely rather than a half baked faulty function that no longer works and just annoy everyone telling everyone else not mto use it...
Year 3 no fix in sight.
Removing VON is not an option for us. It would crucify any public server which is the first point of call for anyone new to ArmA.
It is vital that comms works in the vanilla package. Once a player is established in the ArmA world, typically they migrate to teamspeak anyway. But trying to play organised milsim on a public server when not everyone has teamspeak without VON would be a tragedy.
If you are used to working woth the bug, then you can just about cope. But this big absolutely needs fixing and the sooner the better. The product is broken without it
No people do not migrate to TeamFart. They migrate to Task Force ARMA 3 Radio. (AKA TFAR)
TeamFart is nothing more than glitter and eye candy. A real man's application needs no front end, except the current open sourced essentials and a good open source codec of choice! TeamFart is still something required by the open sourced Task (ARMA) Force Radio module.
What's even more humorous, some of those TeamFart servers, have 100+ channels/rooms where beginners cannot find their default respective channel.
A casual player who becomes a regular arma player does migrate to teamspeak. The reason being, this for a lot of communities is the central gathering point and when a player finds a community he likes, he gets more involved with it and then ends up on their TS server being sociable.
If that server runs TFAR on one or more of their servers, that then takes him one step further into being part of that community
and you cant run TFAR without teamspeak, (or Teamfart as you put it)
(I have no idea why you have such disdain for teamspeak)
I fail to see what your point has to do with the VOIP issue anyway
VOIP is essential to good comms on vanilla servers which are the first servers newcomers to arma join
A great solution would be an internal TFAR type system, but as VOIP isnt working as it should at the moment, thats just too far fetched to start thinking about
and when voip did work as it should it was okay
I formally contest your rationalization, as I never really did get involved with TeamFart or the users of TeamFart, until Task Force Radio was implemented. ;-)
I do agree the ARMA 3 internal voice communications needs to be stabilized, as it is the default communications for most, if not all beginners, and even seasoned individuals. (ie. I tended to use internal communications over TeamFart due to beginners not being able to hear my communications on TeamFart.)
I agree whole heartedly TFAR should be integrated, with the option of upgrading externally. The ARMA 3 internal communications should be additionally configured for either better sound codec, or give the users the options to increase the quality of internal communications sound quality.
I can easily this bug being more popular than weapons emplacement, as this bug tends to affect everybody, whether flying, driving or just on foot!
I think I mentioned previously, that this bug's likely source of breaking was during the initial attempts for optimizing the ARMA 3 binary for increasing performance. I think others mentioned UDP or other network protocols as a likely source. Either or, it was during the initial attempts of optimizing.
If this does not motivate developers, than I would further infer fixing this would allow me to better yell at the last gamer who shot me in the butt!
Just had the issue today aswell, I was playing some KoTH and yeah people talked on side chat telling some intel about Enemys and few times they talked just fine and sometimes it just lagged out horrible. It was side chat only.