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AI needs building usage routines
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Right now, it is impossible to perform any sort of building-related operations. A simple room clearing is out of the question. You can assign a building position in the waypoint editor, but that is pretty much it.

Arma is going in the way of the small-scale spec ops game, in which CQB/MOUT type operations are going to be quite common. AI behaviour in an urban terrain has always been a problem. It severely breaks immersion in single player gameplay.

Some suggestions:

  1. Building entry techniques (even if scripted) as a team
  2. Room clearing
  3. Exiting the building as a team
  4. Garrisoning houses as defensive position and shooting out of it

This should be implemented both in the editor and in the in-game order menu.


Legacy ID
AI Issues

Event Timeline

Tolya edited Steps To Reproduce. (Show Details)Mar 13 2013, 5:37 PM
Tolya edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
Tolya set Category to AI Issues.
Tolya set Reproducibility to Always.
Tolya set Severity to Feature.
Tolya set Resolution to Open.
Tolya set Legacy ID to 3571668007.May 7 2016, 12:30 PM
Tolya edited a custom field.

A must have... if there are going to be bigger buildings on the main island.

Yes indeed. It's frustrating to see a team of AI move to a building that they know they're being shot from, and just circle around it from the outside while never going in. The amount of depth AI moving into and clearing buildings would add would be astounding.

Upvoted, but I doubt we´ll ever see this. It does not work with the current AI, never has, and never will. The best we have right now is the modules that automatically spawn Units inside buildings. But that´s about as good as it´ll get, I´m afraid.

Though, I´d rather hope for a pleasant surprise later.

SGTIce added a subscriber: SGTIce.May 7 2016, 12:30 PM

Been done via mods, i'm sure the devs can figure it out at some point.

Tolya added a subscriber: Tolya.May 7 2016, 12:30 PM
Tolya added a comment.Mar 15 2013, 7:43 PM

@SGTTce: the only mods I am aware of for Arma 2 is for automatic building filling. There is also a script that just assigns different positions for units inside a building.

That is everything I am aware of.

Have you tried the AI overhaul mods?

There's been a lot of them since ArmA 1 that had AI using buildings.

I've seen a script that makes teams clear buildings. Silly to go to the trouble of modeling buildings but have AI that can't make use of them.

I know that whenever I plotted waypoints in buildings in OFP:E is was a bit of a hit on the old black XBOX's CPU.

It would already be great if they would just stay inside the buildings if you set a waypoint to hold that position. You can place AI in buildings as much as you want, but if they are alerted they start running out of the building almost instantly. A new kind of waypoint order "hold building' that makes them stay in the building would help a lot.

Also of course agree with OP suggestion of clearing buildings. So maybe an other waypoint order like "clear building" should be added.

Helari added a subscriber: Helari.May 7 2016, 12:30 PM

AI movement and positioning inside buildings is managed by nodes which are already there (though should probably be increased and tweaked to allow for smooth movement and more freedom for the AI inside buildings), the AI just has to be configured to use these spontaneously and according to the situation.

AI should have configured behaviours that they would decide to use depending on the situation, if they come under attack near buildings they should maybe take cover inside them and use the windows to scan the area around and if they spot enemies in a nearby building they should try to flush the enemy out with hand grenades, breaching the building or even at launchers depending on threat level.

Anyways please BIS do something like this and improve the AI's responsiveness at very close ranges. These are two things that have been missing from arma's scope to this day.

I second this idea, we need to be able to execute proper CQB missions. Especially with the new diving system, this lends itself to special ops missions.

This is the time to implement this, with the game in alpha, and it also should be easier to add units to buildings in the editor, without complicated scripts. I was trying to make a mission for ARMA 2 and this was one of the issues - it was nearly impossible to set up units in buildings easily and have the AI execute CQB operations. One thing you could do is have a module that would populate selected buildings w the desired AI units, and either lock them into the building or allow free movement (i.e. for hostage missions, you don't want the OPFOR to leave the building as soon as you approach). A 3D editor would be perfect, but the next best option would be a way for the mission maker to walk around in the preview mode top where they want to place the unit, and select a "copy data" option from the menu. Back in the editor, you would just place a unit in the general area, copy the data into the init field and the unit would be put into that place in the building - and stay there.

Ideally, one should be able to point to a door or whole building with the in-game command menu and select a "clear" or "breach and clear" .etc type command, which would then have the ai clear the building.
This would also lend itself to the use of flash-bang grenades and other non-lethal weapons for taking prisoners and hostage rescue missions.

Tolya added a comment.Mar 18 2013, 3:59 PM

It seems that the AI is using predefined paths to navigate the buildings right now, because when they finally enter it they mostly go to their preselected spot exactly the same way.

Spycho added a subscriber: Spycho.May 7 2016, 12:30 PM

Id say honestly getting AI to operate cleanly and smoothly in Urban locations is one of the most important things the Arma team can do. As a person who spends more time playing their own custom maps then anything else i know im bias but the AI ever since Arma 1 have bin amazing snipers with absolutely no idea how to clear a city. If theyre going to make AI able to take up proper positions in buidlings it would be best to have them auto orient to where gun fires comming from or find some way of quickly telling members of your squad where to take up in a building. That being said after making meny a cqb map ive found unless you tell an AI where to be looking out of a building in the map editor they will look where ever is convinent which means often youll run into a building to clear it and half the enemy soldiers will be looking at the closest wall and wont turn around and your entry into the room not to mention ive rarely ever seen an AI shoot from inside a building through a window

Spayd added a subscriber: Spayd.May 7 2016, 12:30 PM
Spayd added a comment.Apr 2 2013, 11:16 AM

This would basically complete the game.

ceeeb added a comment.Apr 2 2013, 11:43 AM

Closely related to #0005848
(both reports have high number of votes)

Drekk added a comment.Apr 13 2013, 2:27 PM

I support this!
Agreed, closely related to #5848

For years now, we've had to put up with poor implementation of how the AI interacts with buildings, with fantastic mods such as GL4, SLX and ASR AI skills we've had mere glimpses in to potential of the AI actually using buildings. I can't stress the immersion peak I had when an AI soldier actually went into a building for cover and then proceeded to return fire out of a nearby window. Please BIS, I beseech you; AI Garrisoning, it needs to happen. We have some semblance of it with the new OPFOR and BLUFOR sites, but I'm asking you to go a step further. Garrison Waypoints in the Editor, Garrison Waypoints In-game, let us tell our AI to enter a building, only for them to choose intelligently what positions to choose rather than choosing every little position ourselves in a prolonged act of tedious micro-management. Even the micro-management is something that is plagued with issues that simply should not be a part of a 2013 vision of ARMA: the way AI seem to forget that they have any kind of clipping and simply walk through walls and other AI to get to that very specific spot you've chosen for them (they'll even stand inside eachother!). The way AI forget that their highly trained killing machines, losing any desire to effectively fire on the Enemy, and seem to lose all semblance of awareness once they've passed between the frames of a door.

Let's face it, Buildings are a vital part of how Soldiers interact with an environment, and right now that isn't being simulated well with the current AI, and I feel that it's such a fundamental part of the game; such an important aspect that is pivotal to the experience of immersion with an ArmA game, that it warrants BIS's, rather than our (excellent) modding community's, attention. Please, as a long time fan (OFP:CWC and beyond)it's time to up the building game.

I've had countless squad members get "lost" stuck, whatever in buildings in the Alpha- totally like in Arma 2. This is constantly a problem and in combat it results in time and team members lost. One of the problems I've found is that the AI will walk themselves into a structure (or random object) but then not be able to find their way out. In the middle of a firefight, it's beyond game-breaking to have to backtrack and deal with an idiot squad member who can't walk out of the building he walked himself into.

I have to say it- this is really really frustrating for those of us who're big fans of the series and loyal players since OFP days, but for a lot of players who're first trying out the series, or people reviewing the game, this is going to be a deal-breaker. I say this with affection for the series, but AI pathing simply cannot break so often, or so badly.

There is a great script bundle (it does have some bugs but it does it's primary mission perfectly) for Arma by zorilya called simply "garrison script" that resolves a huge number of pathing issues with AI in buildings- so it's not impossible to do. The script is a little buggy I think, in part because it's added on top of the game code and the other AI intelligence mods and not integrated into it.

EDIT: Zorilya has updated his awesome garrison/CQB script that fixes many of these issues so that it's available in Arma 3 (Armaholic should have it if you search "garrison script" & look for his name). An integrated solution/upgrade of the AI is still the better solution and very much needed, but I wanted to give Zorilya credit and offer a good stop-gap solution to frustrated reporters landing on this report.

Upvoted. I want to be able to recreate battles like the Second Battle of Fallujah, severe CQB!

ABSOLUTELY! I'm not satisfied with what the maps have right now. I want to see more URBAN settings like on the old FPS mods of Quake3 and Unreal Tournament. City streets and buildings, large mansions, industrial complexes. All we've seen now for over 10 years in Arma is fields, grasslands, and tiny huts. Enough of that crap. Give us some real Urban Terrain, CQB, and MOUT.

Can I add my ticket we could be in a way related to this ticket?

A simnple /command, clean house should help a lots

I really wouldn't mind this, even if it was HEAVILY scripted.

Alex72 added a subscriber: Alex72.May 7 2016, 12:30 PM

Adding eAI on the map atm you can always hide in buildings as you know they never come after you there. Even if you fire at them and they "know" you're there. Hoping BIS gets them to go through buildings in final release.

I kinda did not explain my ticket here properly:

Basically my ticket is regarding the inclusion of Navmeshes into the game. This will allow AI Build Usage routines.

Basically the polygonal meshes will...
Identify Rooms so you can say "1, move anywhere in that Kitchen"

Use Maneuver Positions such as an AI in Aware Mode would lean round doors, or open them slowly, or even tell the AI they can jump out of the window if it is broken.

Move to specific Memory Points for telling the AI to stand by a specific window within building.

But my idea also allows the system to be used outside of buildings.

Infantry using buildings for cover? a must be +1

This is URGENT matters. We need to have proper buildings fights.

First step may be to forbid AI to go prone when inside. ATM they just prone and wait when inside a building....

Same for AI in buildings that were manning it, but do not run a single shot from the inside out. Have I stumbled several times with enemy bots that are paralyzed with gun-toting half expecting the player (I) passing in front of him to shoot. The same applies to the effects of explosions, which should alarm you - or even kill them - when inside buildings, but they act as if a flock of birds were walking in the sky.

I have uploaded an automated AI test mission "AI_VS_Buildings_R1.Altis". May require 1.55 dev build, uses the new _pos getPos [_distance, _bearing] command.

I've been looking at the capabilities of AI and buildings, and created this test mission. It sends AI off to explore nearby buildings, and highlights any areas they have trouble moving to/from. Unzip and open in 2d mission editor. Move the player's starting point to test buildings in different areas.

Player has several subordinate AI. Units 3+ in the players group will automatically explore all buildings with defined positions within 300m of the player's starting position (modify init.sqf to change radius). The scripts monitoring their movements may fail if player gives them orders.

Unit 2 can be ordered around as normal, and is useful for manually sending an AI into reported troublespots through normal game commands.

Building positions are indicated with marker arrows, cyan for defined internal buildingPos, and blue for empty positions outside each building. The number of successful moves, failures and scripted rescues of completely stuck AI is reported via hints. Also reported is the cursorTarget building, and the number of times each internal position has been tested, failed and got stuck for that building type. AI leave trails of orange dots when inside.

Scripts generally use posATL and may not work well near the ocean.

Scripts do seem to detect some "false positives", especially around balconies, where scripted explorer AI frequently fail to reach a position that can successfully reached by unit 2 when given orders to move to the same position. See #27569.

AI Issues found:

  • The AI's success rate when moving to/from building positions is significantly affected by nearby objects other than the building they are trying to move to. BI environments feature many adjoining buildings and scenery/clutter objects near buildings. This looks nice, but causes a lot of the AI problems.
  • AI get stuck in the same type of building objects frequently. Suggests troublesome BI buildings could be improved to make it more AI friendly.
  • AI cut corners and enter solid geometry, which can cause them to get stuck (often entering falling animation)
  • AI can walk into building along the ground surface rather than the floor, which can cause them to become stuck.
  • AI generally have a 90% success rate moving to internal positions.
  • AI struggle most with large buildings, such as the cargo towers, ghost hotel, barracks, airport etc.
  • AI sometimes walk off balconies.
  • AI frequently walk through doors, and occasionally walls.
ceeeb added a comment.EditedJul 22 2016, 12:43 AM

Uploaded new version of AI VS Building. New version displays AI path markers again, map markers, handles buildings on water and better movement failure detection.
Known issues:

  • script errors if AI explorers die.