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Recoil way to high
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Description

I find that it is impossible to shoot anyone long range or with fully automatic because the recoil is so massively high. It is so big that I can't even manage the kick with my mouse. This makes using any machine gun pointless. This may not be a major issue but annoying none the less. The standing recoil should be more like the prone recoil.

Details

Legacy ID
1135622601
Severity
Minor
Resolution
Duplicate
Reproducibility
Always
Category
Game Physics

Event Timeline

ImTheDrunkTiger edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
ImTheDrunkTiger set Category to Game Physics.
ImTheDrunkTiger set Reproducibility to Always.
ImTheDrunkTiger set Severity to Minor.
ImTheDrunkTiger set Resolution to Duplicate.
ImTheDrunkTiger set Legacy ID to 1135622601.May 7 2016, 11:06 AM

I agree when it comes to the machine guns. I think an actual bipod system would be great. There are plenty of buildings and areas where it would be nice to use an LMG

SGTIce added a subscriber: SGTIce.May 7 2016, 11:06 AM
SGTIce added a comment.Mar 6 2013, 9:05 PM

If they got it to be a little higher than the recoil was on the saw in Americas Army 1, which was pretty minimal if you were prone, but higher than ArmA prone position LMG fire than it would be useful.

When prone with an LMG it should relatively have little to no recoil on most set ups, depending on the gun power, weight of the weapon, etc.

I can't even get a 3 shot burst from the mx200 without the last 2 round hitting 5 or so feet above target(started from aiming at legs).

Ace added a subscriber: Ace.May 7 2016, 11:06 AM
Ace added a comment.Mar 6 2013, 9:24 PM

Firing an LMG in any position other then prone is absolutely retarded, especially if you're trying to full auto. This isn't Call of Duty or Battlefield where you have the recoil compensation of a brick wall. Shooting while standing/moving is very maintanable and is meant for Short range. Crouching is Mid to Short, and Prone is for long range engagements.

At least learn how a rifle would work outside of a game before you complain about a SIMULATOR.

Scoggs added a subscriber: Scoggs.May 7 2016, 11:06 AM
Scoggs added a comment.Mar 6 2013, 9:28 PM

Recoil is not a problem for me. You should be using singe shot on AR's and firing from prone with LMG's

LMGs need to be deployable with the new detailed urban terrain we're seeing with ArmA 3, but the recoil is fine. Recoil is difficult at range with something like a 7.62, fully automatic machine gun. It should be, but there should also be more ways to counteract it.

HVuro added a subscriber: HVuro.May 7 2016, 11:06 AM
HVuro added a comment.Mar 6 2013, 9:34 PM

Recoil is absolutely fine. However I've noticed that normally when you go prone, the LMG would have even less recoil, right?

Sometimes when I lay prone, maybe from a running sprint trying to get to low cover, the game seems to think I'm still standing because the recoil is all over the place even on my belly, so I have to correct it by standing up then laying prone again and the recoil compensation sort of fixes itself. Is this normal or is it just me?

I agree that the recoil is a bit high, considering the fact that the game is 30 years in the future you would think anti recoil systems would be a thing now.

I've got to say I have no problem what so ever with the recoil of the weapons, I think they are spot on. I had no problem engaging and killing targets at 800 metres on semi auto. The roll of an LMG is to provide support fire; if you want a precision weapon may I suggest a marksman's rifle and firing in the prone position when engaging any target at range. Please do not change the recoil settings.

Standing recoil the same as prone? COD much?
http://youtu.be/7c1ktqovxkU look at the amount of sway going on because that guy is stood up. If you were wearing loads of gear standing and didn't have time to brace your stance it would be even worse.

p00d73 added a subscriber: p00d73.May 7 2016, 11:06 AM

"I find that it is impossible to shoot anyone long range[...]"
Recoil has no effect on the accuracy of your semi-automatic fire.
"It is so big that I can't even manage the kick with my mouse."
Just like you can't just "manage" the recoil of a fully automatic firearm with your arms in real life.
"This makes using any machine gun pointless."
You're using it wrong.
"The standing recoil should be more like the prone recoil."
No. When prone, a weapon rests with all its mass on the ground and will only move slightly compared to a standing situation where the only thing stabilising it is the soldier's arm.

its not really a problem, the recoil depends on the guns, not on the game, but yes, i find the guns mostly useless as they are pretty much the same than the SCAR-H on OA. Big battle rifles with Stanag 20 with high damage and high recoil with 7.62 mm bullets, its not really a problem with the game but with the units

I don't think you seem to understand that this is a realistic simulation of weapons handling, not an FPS shooter. The general result of most real life combat shooting is to suppress rather than kill. Especially for automatic weapons and LMGs.

Try changing the fire mode of your weapon to semi-auto and take your time lining up a shot. You shouldn't need more than 1 or 2 hits to kill a target, so certainly not more than 4 or 5 bullets fired down range.

It's actually way too easy to hit targets with the 6.5 mm weapons on automatic, the recoil is extremely predictable.

Assuming that no weapons are being rested or bipods used, I find the recoil to be great the way it is. It is large enough that you have to take time to line up accurate shots yet slow enough that you can control it too some degree by pulling down the mouse in full auto. Most importantly, in combination with sway, it creates longer firefights that require more maneuvering and less "plinking".
Those against it, keep in mind that you probably haven't gotten accustomed to it yet. After a while it won't seem quite as bad because you will learn to control it.

Verox added a comment.Mar 7 2013, 12:00 AM

I sense many people straight from call of duty here...
Also, this looks quite a lot like a troll report.

Devlin added a subscriber: Devlin.May 7 2016, 11:06 AM

Get a deploy Bipod.
Recoil, is a bit to high on some weapons, but whats most annoying is that i miss my ACE features, like deploy Bipod.

I think the issue is not so much that the recoil while standing/crouched/prone is too high, but rather that we lack the ability to rest our weapon on ledges or deploy bipods.

EDcase added a subscriber: EDcase.May 7 2016, 11:06 AM

USE SEARCH 'recoil' AND VOTE ON EXISTING TICKETS

I'm trying to remember from when I used to shoot about 7/8 years ago (so memory might be a little off!) and was a marksman, but I actually think the recoil should go ever so slightly higher in regards to how much the weapon kicks on screen. Especially when shooting burst or fully auto.

However, shooting single rounds, it's pretty easy for a marksman to get the sight to come back down almost exactly where originally aimed. So perhaps the sight should come back closer to the original shot, unless shooting on burst or fully auto.

Yea wish you could deploy bipods.

Recoil on the carbines, rifles are perfect though.

God I pity the developers that have to sort out all the retards posts about the same issue..

Simply, the recoil should match that of reality, end of story.

recoil is fine... no adjustments needed here

Tajin added a subscriber: Tajin.May 7 2016, 11:06 AM
Tajin added a comment.Mar 8 2013, 12:08 PM

Recoil is fine but I really miss the ability to rest my weapon on objects or to use bipods (as seen in ArmA2 - ACE mod).

The main question is... why do you guys even try to use full-auto for anything else than close combat or supressive fire?

Aside from that, I'm sure we will get atleast some of the old 5.56mm weapons later on (or through addons). Recoil on those is easier to handle.

Recoil is totally fine, I think that it should stay as it is at the moment.

Recoil is fine. Just crouch or go prone.

Instead you should perhaps make a ticket to add weapon resting? It's possible within the engine and works great (see ACE2 mod)

ChrisH added a subscriber: ChrisH.May 7 2016, 11:06 AM

I think recoil is fine as it is, it makes it a balance to the high damage.

BLKMMB added a subscriber: BLKMMB.May 7 2016, 11:06 AM

Again with another recoil ticket, come on guys, first use the search bar and second the recoil is damn fine learn to negate it with your mouse.

Wiffel added a subscriber: Wiffel.May 7 2016, 11:06 AM

i love the weapon handling :) - recoil is OK! its not CoD... Deal with It :P

Wiffel, get out of here with that crap.

For those of you who like to go around saying, "Look another recoil thread."

This was posted day 2 of the alpha release, maybe you should learn to read the time stamps.

As a 25yr. Infantryman with a good 10 of those years as a Rifle Company shooting instructor I can confidently say that the current modelling of muzzle rise (notice I didn't say recoil) in Arma 3 is wrong. By the way, it is also poorly done in Arma2 ACE.

Note that I have not fired any of the A3 weapons myself in real life.

We need to assume that the variables that go into shooting any firearm are equal across the board for each soldier in game. These variables are such things as strength, eyesight, training, experience, fitness, etc.

Calibre of round makes very little difference in muzzle rise because (in simple terms) the weapon itself is designed to compensate for the increased power as the calibre goes up. Things such as barrell weight, receiver operating mechanism, position of furniture (forestock, pistol grip, etc.), and many others.

In the prone position, wth a rifle, firing single rounds, and holding the weapon properly (which we assume is being done by the game soldier) the weapon will rise straight up and come back down into the same sight picture. The muzzle does not go up and to the right and stay there as it currently does in game. The amount of rise is of little significance in this case; however, I would cut it in half of what it currently is.

In the kneeling position unsupported, single round, the muzzle will rise and move slightly to the right but then it will come back down into, relatively, the same sight picture. Once again, in game it is too drastic and needs to be lessened in terms of how much it moves horizontally as well as vertically.

In the standing position unsupported, single rounds, the current model is not far off. I could live with it; however, the muzzle will come back down into a very loose ( may be off to the right and a little high) original sight picture.

I am not even going to talk about firing a rifle in automatic mode as, even in the prone position, hitting anything greater than 50 metres away is difficult at best. In fact we rarely if ever trained to fire from greater than 25 or 50 metres distance. At that range you need to aim at the lower left (in sitting, kneeling and standing position) of a man size target to have any chance of more than the first round making contact. Automatic fire is an option on modern rifles to be used in house clearing or short range firefights (such as counter-ambush) where amount of lead down range is more important for suppression than accuracy.

In regard to LMGs, MMGs, and the like, with bipod being used, and firing from the prone position the weapon comes straight back and does not rise in any significant way. The sight picture vibrates for obvious reasons but that is all. I also must add that firing one of these MGs from anything but the prone position or supported in other positions is a waste of ammo. Only Arnie Swartzeneggar (?) could possible hold one of these up for any period of time while firing auto to be of any use.

@squishall Great feedback!!! You forgot Rambo though ;p

Tell me, are safety switches used at all IRL?

jaykay added a subscriber: jaykay.May 7 2016, 11:06 AM

@squishall hit the nail on the head here.

Jukk added a comment.Mar 13 2013, 1:22 PM

@tOBdavian
Safety switches are sometimes incorporated in fire selectors, so they are used whenever switching from one firing mode to other. Also I think it is safe to assume that at least in most militaries of the world, the weapon is kept on safe unless in combat or otherwise specified.

EDIT: For example, with some weapons you have to set a specific firing mode be able to strip/clean it properly.

Safety switches are off topic people.

However with a any bullpup system the recoil will not be anywhere near as intense as a rifle. The whole point of bull pup is the keep the recoil in the back rather than the front thus making it more manageable. The TAR-21 itself is known for nearly zero recoil when used right, with little kick.

Recoil on the Automatic Rifles is definitely much too high,even when standing.

It's not that bad with Assault Rifles but the balancing between the weapons is pretty extreme. The American standard Assault Rifle has a much higher recoil than the Opfor counterpart or any other AR for that matter.
I always stop and try to pick up an Opfor weapon when I get the chance.

A better balancing would be nice.

Play ArmA2 with ace/acre. Perfect recoil.

See #0000599.