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Vehicles missing hit able crew
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Almost all vehicles have a "visible" crew that can be killed by penetrating the vehicle. A few are inconsistent, or lacking them competently.
List of missing crew members:

  • BTR-K Kamiysh: Commander, Gunner, Driving missing
  • M2A4 Slammer UP: Gunner, Driver + All passenger are missing
  • M2A1 Slammer: Gunner, Driver + All passenger are missing
  • IFV-6c Panther: All passenger are missing
  • AWC 302 Nyx (AA): Commander
  • AWC 303 Nyx (Recon): Commander
  • AFV-4 Gorgon: Gunner + All passenger are missing
  • FV-720 Mora: All passenger are missing
  • M4 Sorcher: Commander
  • 2S9 Sorcher: Commander
  • M5 Sandstorm MRLS: Gunner
  • AMV-7 Marshall: All passenger are missing

I can understand that on some variants (BTR-K) it might be hard to hide the crew inside the hull, however variants of the AWC 30X sometimes have a commander, and sometimes they don't.


Operating System
Windows 10 x64

Event Timeline

Yoshi_E created this task.Mar 15 2018, 1:03 PM
Yoshi_E updated the task description. (Show Details)Mar 15 2018, 1:11 PM
Yoshi_E updated the task description. (Show Details)
Wulf added a subscriber: Wulf.Mar 16 2018, 10:15 AM


Could you please explain what you mean by hittable crew. Do you want to shoot at a crew member that is inside an armored vehicle and be able to kill him? Or are you saying that they are missing the turn out feature which would enable you to kill them? Because right now I am not sure what you mean.

Or what gun are you using to penetrate armor.

Wulf changed the task status from New to Need More Info.Mar 16 2018, 10:15 AM
Yoshi_E added a comment.EditedMar 16 2018, 11:37 AM

By default a crew member inside a vehicle can only be killed if he (his model) is present inside the vehicle.
Its best to show it at this example for AWC 301:

This version has a driver and a commander, both are physical present, and can be killed, by penetrating the vehicle (with 12.7mm or 30mm AP)

This variant of the AWC has still 2 crew members, the driver and the commander. Though in this case only the driver is physical present, the commander is missing. Its still possible to kill the driver (with 12.7mm or 30mm AP). It is however impossible to kill the commander.

Another example:
In the fully manned Marid all crew members an passengers can be killed with a 12.7mm or 30mm AP, as they are, as displayed in the image, physical present.

This gorgon is also fully manned (including 8 passangers and 3 crew members). Here again, all passenger and the gunner is missing (9 are missing), making it impossible to kill them using 12.7mm+

Another example:
Here a penetration killing a passenger in the Marid

This is not possible in the Gorgon as the physical body of the passengers is missing.

The passenger don't play an important role most of the time, but the gunner does. A trained sniper or gunner of an HMG can kill the gunner and driver of an APC. Due to very inconsistent presence of the crew in the vehicle it makes this very tricky or impossible.
It would be great if at least all major role (Driver, Gunner, Commander) would be represented consistently over all armored vehicles.

This inconsistency stretches over many vehicles, which are listed above. Is it intended? Balance reasons?

Is that still present in the RC?

Is that still present in the RC?

Its present on the latest version of the Dev Branch and the Live Version. The next RC is still planned, as far as I know?

well on RC is no different from dev branch in these regards

also while we are at the position of the crew. The commander of the MBT-Kuma is still clipping out of the turret near the turret ring:

Yoshi_E added a comment.EditedMar 17 2018, 1:07 PM

I was unaware of the crew collision boxes.

So most of the models above should be fine.
However, it still seems that there is a problem with:

  • AWC 302 Nyx (AA): Commander
  • AWC 303 Nyx (Recon): Commander
Wulf changed the task status from Need More Info to Acknowledged.Mar 19 2018, 1:29 PM


Yes you are right some of the crews are not present when you enter the vehicle, but they do have FireGeometry present so they still get damaged. I will have a look at the rest of the vehicles just to be sure.

Again, thank you for the report.

Yes, thank you. This undocumented behavior lead to confusion from my side. After talking with @reyhard this was cleared up.

He provided a screenshot for the BTR crew FireGeometry ( You can see that the crew is misaligned.
This probably lead to incorrect results during my testing. Together with my testing and previous ticket ( ), I am assuming that the crew FireGeometry is not on the correct places on multiple vehicles.
If somebody check on them, it would be great.

The AWC Variants have still problems with both, the visible crew and the crew FireGeometry. On the AT and Autocannon Variant both are perfectly fine as seen here:

However, on the AA and Recon Variant, the visible commander togehter with his FireGeometry is missing completly.

My understanding so far is: A visible model inside the vehicle is needed, if the unit is able to turn out.
This contradicts with the above mentioned AWC AA and Recon variants, as their commanders are able to turn out, but are not visible inside the vehicle.
On the MBT-Kuma it is similar, the gunner is not able to turn out, but is still visible inside the vehicle.

Tested on:
Build: Development
Version: 1.83.144509

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pcc added a subscriber: pcc.EditedTue, Jun 21, 9:23 PM

Prefer crew firegeometry removed for all tanks and APCs. It would solve this:
It should also boost game performance.
Crew fire geometry should also be removed for UGV too. UGV shows crew sticking out if non UAV crew is added.

pcc removed a subscriber: pcc.Wed, Jun 22, 12:35 AM