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Glitch with pond object (aka "Podagorsk problem" or "Beketov problem")
Reviewed, WishlistPublic

Description

Almost all pond objects from ArmA2 looks weird in the almost all custom islands, ported to Arma3. The pond covers half of the screen if appears in the line of sight within the rendering radius.

There is no ponds on Arma3 islands and no pond object in the game resources, so we can't reproduce this glitch without ported/custom objects.

This problem makes the creating of ponds/swamps/small rivers in custom islands absolutely impossible. {F22573} {F22574} {F22575} {F22576} {F22577} {F22578} {F22579} {F22580}

Details

Legacy ID
2220194766
Severity
None
Resolution
Open
Reproducibility
Always
Category
Modding
Additional Information

Event Timeline

Bohemia edited Steps To Reproduce. (Show Details)Oct 22 2013, 3:48 PM
Bohemia edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
Bohemia set Category to Modding.
Bohemia set Reproducibility to Always.
Bohemia set Severity to None.
Bohemia set Resolution to Open.
Bohemia set Legacy ID to 2220194766.May 7 2016, 5:12 PM
Kirill added a subscriber: Kirill.May 7 2016, 5:12 PM

need fix it!!!

Bohemia added a subscriber: Bohemia.May 7 2016, 5:12 PM

If the devs can not or wish not to fix this problem, it would be nice at least to explain the cause of this bug.

Obviously, BI-developers are aware of this problem because they knowingly did not add the ponds to the official maps.

Maybe, if the developers give some explanations, community can resolve this problem by himself.

its making half of the custom maps unuseable... so much wasted quality content!

maybe its because that addon was made for ArmA 2 and this is ArmA 3.....

Dr Death you are a troll.

How so? its an obvious thing, why is this a ticket for an ArmA 2 asset not working on ArmA 3 when this is the ArmA 3 feedback?

StJimmy added a subscriber: StJimmy.May 7 2016, 5:12 PM

Try to ask map makers or .kju how to remove those ponds. That's the only way to fix this now. You can remove ponds with AiA from Chernarus.

Dr Death: because this ticket is regarding the use of arma2 usermade maps in arma3 through the "All in Arma" forward porting mod, an i guess you are well aware of that since you where participating in the realitymod forum with a similar topic, where you expressed your opinion and rejection of the forward porting arma2 content.

St. Jimmy: this ticket is not about work arounds (of which some are impossible) this ticket is about Engine features and forward porting compability.

Dr. Meth, there is not your personal trolling playground or smthn. It's obvious that this issue refers not to the forward-ported addons only, but to each and every island which will be created for the Arma3.

Besides the fact that none of you know what does a "troll" means, this is a feedbacktracker JUST for ArmA 3 stuff, if the glitch/bug is related to any of the ArmA 2 content then the mods will come here and close the ticket, dont believe me? wait until someone like Mad comes here.

Can't wait anyone of devs pay their attention to this report :))

This report IS about Arma3 and its technology, if you just can not or want not to understand it and just want to run around and scream "TROLOLOLOLOLO AD-DOWNS AR SAKS AND EVRITING RELEITAD WITH ARMA2 AR SAKS TU!" - i can't remove your head and put my one instead.

now it does seems like if you are the trolling one trying to make me look like a retard. and this feedback tracker its just about the problems with ArmA 3 and just the vanilla game, it won't try to take tickets related to addons or mods, not even about the other games.

Dr Death: even IF this ticked was violating formal regulations, wether this ticket, that adresses arma 2 as well as arma 3 related issues(i hope i am not overexerting someones binary imagination here), was supposed to be in the arma 2 or in the arma 3 tracker, who are you to reprimand the OP?

This conversation, like any other i happened to witness you participating in, is preposterous.

sadly, there is no ArmA 2 feedback tracker, and if this ticket adresses both ArmA 2 and ArmA 3, its not useful. in this page there goes JUST and EVERYTHING related to ArmA 3. No addons, no mods, no compatibility, no Workshop missions.

JUST vanilla arma 3. i hope i was clear enough

Fine then, i saw mods closing non-ArmA 3 vanilla related stuff, if you need a mod to come over here and close it, fine for me, even if there is no section on the rules that explain so.

We have a modding section on the tracker here. If its not something the modder can solve or a problem that affects modding, the feedback tracer exist for that as well. Kju has reported many issues with backwards compatibility already.

oh, modding section has been added? didn't knew that!

I think it's been there since the alpha.

PLEASE THIS NEEDS FIXING!

MikeTim added a subscriber: MikeTim.May 7 2016, 5:12 PM

Theories/Possiblites to fix this problem, and if it can be fixed:

I believe that for this to be fixed, there are a few ways BIS can go about this.
I believe that there are many different classnames, IDs and models/meshes for the ponds that are used in custom maps, along with the default BI ones used on Takistan. Because not all of them have the same name, properties etc but are still all broken, clearly its the very "concept" of placing a pond object/mesh that renders in a certain way onto the map is what is broken, so BI can't just contact one addon dev and tell him to fix it, nor can they just make some blank version of the files for those ponds because there are different types, for instance the CLA Clafghan map when used through All in Arma or some other method always has the "black line problem", even though it uses ponds that are different from those in the Esbekistan and Beketov maps, both also maps that get the glitch. As far as I can tell, this only happens when 2 pond meshes are being rendered at once, and I am almost positive it doesn't matter if they are visible or not only if the engine is rendering them. If the guys at BI can somehow make a new method to render these ponds that doesn't break it (I believe some guy Aldruic who made A3MP a map port of many maps used a method of a new shader or somthing, Not sure if that applies universally to all pond rendering or just on those maps), if they can do somthing that just fixes this issues root in general instead of temp fixes for maps or just plain removing them, that would be the best option. I am pretty sure that they cannot just use some script to de render the ponds because I doubt the engine can detect what is a pond and what isn't.
Overall, I think BI can fix this if they try, but it doesn't seem to be at a very important priority for them because they are fixing Zeus, which is kind of a shame because I see obviously people know about this glitch and aren't reporting it because no one is ever playing these glitched maps on youtube or something like that unless they use A3MP map pack which seems to only fix it for those maps (Not sure).

nomisum added a subscriber: nomisum.May 7 2016, 5:12 PM

upvoted because of awesome maps like clafghan, which are superb in a3 as well

COuld we at least get some Technical help here please , this is not simply a Porting problem but a problem overall

HEre is a video of the problem

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4Gs7VWXknw

and a vehicle incase it shows more but i suspect its the roadway LOD and engine or something connected thats the prob

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWkGPc_6JGs

Thanks in advance

This may or may not make sense.

This issue reminds me of the issues with A2 bridges that span water...

I have a gut feeling that the root cause of the problem is something engine side, that freaks out when you push a p3d object with roadway into the ground.

For bridges if you adjust the roadway PERFECTLY, so it lines up with the road that it joins, then the issue goes away.

OR, you can create an invisible road above the bridge, and as long as it does NOT MAKE CONTACT with the bridge, that also makes the issue go away.

See this video for an example of the invisible road working as a fix for the A2 bridge issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJLck9o0wug

I BELIEVE, if you do not allow the pond object to penetrate into the ground anywhere, it will work... but have not tested it myself.

A good way to test would be to make a cube shaped small pond, place it next to a wall or stairs, so that it is not touching the ground, and then walk/fall into the pond. Normal swimming should work.

IF it does work, then IMO the best solution would be to create "pond bottom" models that can be sunk into the terrain but have a given size/shape above ground to receive the pond object on top of. This way, you blend with existing terrain, but do not have the pond object and the terrains collisions interacting.

Also if that works, it should make it easier to trace down the root cause of it engine side... Some sort of up spike in geometry or collisions is being created when two objects touch and are over or next to water (similar things happen on Cherno Docks, and Sahrani nabrezi objects)

This is something the devs need to fix in a reliable way, they can't let us wander in the dark without even showing their face and give a reasonable explanation as to why this happens!!!
Regular companies PAY people to track bugs, now we not only have to track them for free (which is understandable, since BIS is a rather small company), we even have to go our own way and fix them? You can't be serious. :D

Well Well

It seems the poinds/ water has been silently fixed (ish) , well done BIS , I hope community efforts helped a little :).

So just a couple of things to fix the first of actually point to a Major flaw in the Engine and possibly help with some future gains .

To repeat the error :

Place a water object such as a DBO_pond in the editor
start game all is good
Stop game and move the object
Start game and you will find that the world space from which you moved the Pond object still has the effect of being there in all manners apart from visually seeing the object.
In essence the engine beleives there are now two pond objectas on the map

Lastly
because the fix has now added Road properties or On surface to the Water roadway lod , Bullets on surface have no effect unless on the very edge ( grenades etc are still ok as expected they calculate from AGL 0 )

Cheers for the progress PLS pLS can we get some technical info on the fix :)

Also worthy of note, the ponds do not interact well with fog.

Any presence of fog makes the ponds turn black and behave bizzarely:

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198085714902/screenshot/700660773127733455

any news from this issue?
date submitted: 2013-10-22 15:48
now we have 2 years later........

other issue with the ponds (watersurface) in A3
http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=24187

or anyone can get us some info how to fix this (if we can!) :-)

cheers

TutSi added a subscriber: TutSi.May 7 2016, 5:12 PM
TutSi added a comment.Jan 10 2016, 5:17 PM

Upvoting, all ponds on all A2 terrains seems to be affected when fog is enabled. I attach pictures :(

PS: Please update/change description, title as there are ansent images and issue was 50% resolved.