Anachoretes

I'm tired, we waste our time, A3 miss lot of feature like draging bodies...

BIS want our feedback, are you a dev from BIS, NO.

Do you win money from BIS, NO you spend it to buy the game.

What do you want that they stop the dev just to fix the bugs, and there's a lot.
I think that they can continu to dev after the release.

APEX is a tool to help devs to have a better work, more efficient, and to use grapkhc card and not only GPU.

OFP was unique, not so advance in the system, it was using DirectX 8.
A3 is missing lot of things from the serie, so we can continu like that, to have better graphics and less features.
A3 has to move a step forward like the others games, so to use the good techs to move on...

The fact that a person who understands the issue will not push the technology he had seen on pamphlets.
He will talk in a broader sense. The fact that you made ​​some crap in the SDK does not make you an expert. Keyholes masterclass. Bravo!

Just stop wasting our time by saing somthing is impossible because of a reason we already explained is invalid.

plutoto74
You are tired because raised too much. Are you sure that in addition to this topic they didnt have a chance to learn about APEX? Guys who can ask support directly from nvidia? Thank God they know now.

BIS, PLEASE! Dont provoke my team to integrate APEX in A3...

@Anachoretes, Быдло (Bidlo) is your grandfather, understood?!

Also, about AMD. Borderlands 2. Switch to CPU. Finish.
So, OpenCL? Yes.

mr.Stepan, go home. $)

Anachoretes

God me, NO! But you...

But maybe with guys like you they are thinking that they can stop to enhance the game...

Why they arrive in others games, and sometime free like PlanetSide 2?

A graphic engine works like the others, the only dif is the renderer, it depends from the techs.

I know that to do a game there's not only the graphics, but we are talking about graphics, and a tool for BIS. I know that they can have info directly from NVidia, they use PhysX.

They work to improve the engine, but we have enought ressources on our computers to handle more PhysX if we use more efficiently it.

Do you want a supercomputer to use less than the half. Power is good, to use it is better...

Go spam somewhere else for fuck sake.

note you pluto

@Anachoretes - shut the fuck up.

@raoul, @plutoto - good job keep up the work you 2

Little update. I made a house in sketchup well a building and imported into Physx. its working and all only there are some issue's on my side not physx. Some collisions and params i messed up il record today and upload it aswell linking in the information section.

Looking forward to seeing it, Raoul. It'd be great if you showed how easy it would be to implement in order to demonstrate its feasibility.

Implement it? In ARMA? idk Bis coding is hard i dont know it. I only know how to write scripts for missions. I can show how easy it is to make a structure fractureize it and import it in this case UDK.

you can use 'Call Extension' for integrate APEX :D

How i say'd few times ago, my mate integrate physX and APEX in our game project engine, its take just a few days, and here dont need to rework ready models, apex calculate it personally in real time. All works good in MP games, BIS please do it...

Raoul, a good idea would be to take an existing structure (preferably a tall one such as the watch tower in the air base, or the lighthouse) and implement APEX destruction. If you could somehow show how long it took as well, it could really motivate the developers.

Well the issue is Bis packs everything in 1 file. Like the file stratis contains files that contains files that contain structures. Im not gona spend time searching for them if i can make somthing close to what bis already has in just 5 min.

@ Kol9yN you have a link for me? A demo? I also do stuff with game dev and im always interested in what other people do :D

Kol9yN if everything you say is true, then why It's not in-game yet? I'm pretty sure that DEV knows about this. Maybe just RV engine cannot handle that, who knows.

@Snipedhunter

It's more a compatibility problem than engine, devs use PhysX software for AMD users.
APEX is just a tool for PhysX, without to do animation for destruction like it is now, but dynamic destruction, it's why NVidia solution with hardware is better.
APEX is just here to set the level of destruction detail, after it's like classic PhysX in game.

im sure there wouldnt be no disagreements if there was a option to enable and disable this feature and also a slider bar to control how many bodies or bits debris are going to be produced etc etc

They have to work on the meshes and make graphics levels for it like for the others options. The time they spend to create destructions.

Best implementation of destruction in this game - the smoke and fire. Rest is particle adjustments. From tons of documentary video I concluded that you'll rarely see the destruction. Just what the building was, soot.smoke.dust.explosion, and then ruins. Everything else is not worth it.

@Anachoretes

You're ready again to bit?

But i understand childrens who want to play with this toys.

Anachoretes, you can say all you want that it's not worth it, but face it, you got outnumbered. Over 82% of people that voted are in favor of its implementation, so stop pretending like no one wants it.

@plutoto74
ArmA needs alot of features. More important than this useless trash. So, when they get to this ticket - it will be ArmA 4.
Baby's are those who load the tracker with questionable features.

0Anachoretes

But imagine that everybody do like you for the features wanted and maybe that you want!

Before A4, they will release some DLC and I hope that they will improve the system, and maybe features.
Remember OFP with T&L, it was release after in the game.

-->you got outnumbered. Over 82% of people

Idon't care numbers. Especially when 82% is 42 kids who like fancy glistening toys.

Are you a teenager? I think so!

--->they will release some DLC
Even 3 or 4 DLC's can not contain all requested stuff. And believe me, wounding systems, extented vehicles, etc. is more important.

Anachoretes, have you been reading the news at all? BIS is going to be adding opening vehicle doors in Arma 3, OF COURSE destruction is more important than that and will unquestionably make it in to Arma 3!

@Dave Zember
Its not are Hot feature. But yes - this is more important. Enviroment destructions in Arma2+mods looks better than anything else. Apex cannot help in this fact.

-->Are you a teenager? I think so!
You think like teenager? Agree. It's funny how fast you run out of arguments and began a verbal diarrhea.
You can be old, but you definetly not are brain-gifted.

@plutoto74
I can't respect you anymore, and for anything. Your behavior is humiliates you.

"Apex cannot help with this fact."

How would you know? Can you even prove it?

Wtf is wrong woth you do you like it when people hate you? you are so fucking childish. Shit every stop responding to this childish cunt hes just a troll and you know what they say about trolls. Dont feed them they just get fatter.

-->It's easy behind a keyboard but facing me...
Isolation of human faces makes you dumber? You want to talk about this?
Adult and clever humans don't have such behavior like you do. Its more like 'Old in Web'! Go ahead.

Is there a moderator to ban this guy?

-->Wtf is wrong woth you do you like it when people hate you? you are so fucking childish.

So if you hate someone who told something unliked for you he is childish?Not you? Education loss(c)

Wtf that sentence doesn't even make sense. Also i had more education then you because i know how to explain myself. As fact you are not being helpfull at all i dont even know why you made a feedback accound. Fuck of back to the getto with your sorry ass because your a epic fail. Should you be robbing some place annyway? Fuck off now seriously where are moderators where you need them. Ban this waste of life.

@Raoul1234
Education of stupid insults? You don't even see simple sense in simple words.
Ok, for special humans.
1.I don't agreed with something.
2.You hate me.
1.More arguments.
2.I'm childish.
Funny, isn't it.

It's not a joke, STOP IT now.
Since yesterday you do that.

@plutoto74
You collect money for this? ^)

I am asking again - show me the game! that use Apex directly on AMD GPU.

HAWKEN MAFIA2 seriously fuck off now you are starting to piss me off. Instad of being a bitch and spamming my post you can do some research yourfuckingself. Shit are you that dumb you cant even use google?.

For your game Raoul are you really sure to use AMD card or CPU?
For Mafia2 and Hawken there's difference with NVidia cards, less effects and particules and it use CPU for PhysX, it's why bad result with AMD for PhysX.

wow.. I think somewhere, this discussion derailed.

@Raoul i don't need google. I know that is not - just forwarding to CPU with interations loss. Only Hybrid mode but this is still Nvidia GPU. This is makes this feature unpresentable.
I use only Nvidia because render on CUDA but i don't want to see frustrated and diminishing community. So it's probably OpenCL way. But again - its not are mistery for game developers.
So better to report something specific: what objects, what buildings, found reference video of destruction, etc.

I find something interesting for AMD owners, if it works...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYKrTvnQhaQ

Working for throwing 10000 teapots in 3dmax viewports.
I see such fakes for games too. Just are fakes.

Serious to all AMD users. Start investing into Nvidia. Truth is not fun Nvidia is taking everything over. More and more games are going on physx and more are implementing APEX destruction. Also Physx was Nvidia locked aswell but still most AMD users can play A3 whitout issues. So whats the issue? Asfor Anachoretes hes just a troll.

HOW THE FUCK DID YOU MANAGE TO WRITE 35 FUCKING NOTES OVER JUST ONE FUCKING NIGHT!?

@pluto Stop talking about fantastic Pin, that not exist, hybrid modes, etc. First. Use Sli\Cross\Hybrid - it's just a waste of watts. One top card is enough. Second. You can't force people to buy something.

Apex don't need any pin's. G80 was released in 2006. Nvidia buy Apex in 2008. But people can use 8800 for apex. PPU name is just marketing. Nvidia don't need any pin's to work with GPGPU.

-->PPU integrated
You need are doctor. 8800 dont have any PPU. Like others cards. They have USA and CUDA support. Thats all.

@pluto
I don't like stupid peoples who spread false information. NVIDIA buy APEX only for SOWTWARE! All Apex hardware were sent to the recycle because they already have G80 and Unified Shading Architecture. Its mean - calculate everything what you want. G80 have NVIO but this chip works in I\O operations. Another story. You got it?

But any educated person know that i'm right. You are not only knowledgeless, but also stubborn.

Educated? Wtf you dont even speak propper english. Also Pluto comes with hard evidence unless like you who just comes here and say no no no its not right because i say its not. Seriously jump of a bridge.

-->propper english
Thats right.

-->no no no its not right because i say its not
It's not right because I have explained why. This ticket is filled with technical and logical errors.

What technical and logical errors would those be?

-->Thats right.
That's right.

And he knows English than you.

can the arguments just stop please?

APEX IS NOT AMD COMPATIBLE.(Technical)
Examples of low-quality UE3 demos do not represent required perfomance and quality.(Technical)
The assertion that the game needs apex.(Logical)

This is enough to ignore these suggestions.Given that APEX is not a secret for anybody.
Anyone would say that this ticket about APEX and its ridiculous presentation. And not related to the subject game.

-->And he knows English than you.
I missed the apostrophe. It's not scary and usual thing.Unless someone decided to change the topic of conversation. Due to the total defeat.

"APEX IS NOT AMD COMPATIBLE.(Technical)": Depends on what you mean by that. It can run on CPUs even if your GPU doesn't support it. We already have Physx implemented to some degree, do you have a problem with that as well?

"Examples of low-quality UE3 demos do not represent required perfomance and quality.(Technical)": Are you saying that Apex won't make the game look/perform well enough? How would you know that? And even if that was the case, we should have the option to disable the effects.

"The assertion that the game needs apex.(Logical)": I personally never said that Apex was needed, I'm not sure who did. The fact is that it doesn't, but it would be really, really nice to have.

-->can run on CPUs even if your GPU doesn't support it
We talking only about GPU. CPU can't handle this sim.

-->Are you saying that Apex won't make the game
I mean, not only Apex can do that. And hard to believe that BIS will use this unique SDK. And realistic destruction in ArmA represented with particles. Its all you can see. Smoke mushrooms, dust, etc. GPU assist for particles - maybe.But OpenCL.

-->really nice to have.
Idea is not in the APEX. Idea in GPGPU. And again it's not are secret. I don't see any reallife reference for conrete, for windows destructions. Anything usefull.
ArmA not needed in simple fractals because its not are kid platformer. Arma need some realistic simulation.

Its funny Anachoretes. Everyone dissagrees with you on every point you made. Not to mention you keep bullshitting yourself in a corner by saying stuff no one said. Also the facts you bring up are bullshit. Stop using Yahoo as source of information. Stop trying to make yourself look smart without showing us hard information regarding yourstatments.

Yes, you live in the World where apex works on AMD gpu, and NV have are special pin. Lucy in the sky.

Everyone it's only people with same level of intellect as you. I live long enough to not pay attention to it.

wtf? Seriously Apex works on AMD. Its just the Nvidia pin that made APEX and PHysx work better on Nvidia cards. Do you understand now? Hell Apex even works on Intel HD grapics Only the preformance is shit. Do you understand it now billy boy? Seriously Stop bullshiting. You are not smart at all. You're the most stupid person if come allong in a while because all of your statements are based your knowledge. Everyone here comes with hard evidence exept for you.

"We talking only about GPU. CPU can't handle this sim."

No, you don't understand. You can have your GPU do most of the processing as usual but assign your CPU to perform its normal duties as well as Physx calculations. Having your CPU process Physx does not mean that you can't use a GPU or multiple GPUs as well.

"I mean, not only Apex can do that. And hard to believe that BIS will use this unique SDK. And realistic destruction in ArmA represented with particles. Its all you can see. Smoke mushrooms, dust, etc. GPU assist for particles - maybe.But OpenCL."

How is it hard to believe? They're already using Physx and can make this happen quite quickly, probably within a matter of days. If you think there is a better solution, let us know.

"Idea is not in the APEX. Idea in GPGPU. And again it's not are secret. I don't see any reallife reference for conrete, for windows destructions. Anything usefull.
ArmA not needed in simple fractals because its not are kid platformer. Arma need some realistic simulation."

Apex is getting us closer to realistic destruction. It isn't just about fractures, as you can see in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=O04ErnJ8USY

-->And when you say that there's no pin on NVidia cards it's totally wrong.
Show me this pin, or something about this pin. He exist only in you small brain.
-->http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia_physx [^]

What i'm saying? "can be accelerated by either a PhysX PPU or a CUDA-enabled GeForce GPU"

-->No, you don't understand. You can have your GPU do most of the processing as usual but assign your CPU to perform its normal duties as well as Physx calculations. Having your CPU process Physx does not mean that you can't use a GPU or multiple GPUs as well.
Basic physics always work on CPU. But for such destructions we need ONLY GPU MULTITHREADING? So AMD's can't work with that. The game should have the same functionality. Regardless of the vendors and the number of cards.

-->They're already using Physx
Main got. They use simple physic engine like PhysX that work on CPU's. Any CPU's. But APEX not working on AMD GPU's. That's mean unique.

-->It isn't just about fractures, as you can see in this video.
But it's still concrete destructions. And still demo. Away of target.

-->wtf? Seriously Apex works on AMD. Its just the Nvidia pin that made APEX and PHysx work better on Nvidia cards. Do you understand now?

Realy. You need are doctor or belt-actions(if you know what i mean). God sake, just ask this on special forum. Let them laugh too.

-->NVidia buy the tech, do yo think that they reveal all of it! And I have always my 8800 gtx, I'm not a lyer for the info that I give. Yes in the option I can see the sony pin for PhysX. With this tech NVidia bring it into the card, it's an enhancement of PPU cards, but it's working with the GPU to render a scene.

You just an idiot. Nvidia NEVER use nothing from Apex PPU except software. Because USA that was coming with G80 much better than any PPU.

Yes, also bus, vram, vrm, pci-e bridge, sli bridge..

Raoul could we have a demo of your work to test it for both AMD and NVidia users?
Thanks

It already has been tested on AMD by me and a friend. I will uploaded a demo soon.

So Apex can't be processed by the CPU? I thought it could just as Physx could.

OK, I've been trying to clean up this thread, but I've given up for today, it's too long and I don't have multiselect; every delete action takes 10 seconds on the FT.

Let there be a word of warning, those abusing and insulting will have their account suspended, specially if it comes down to masses of such comments.

I won't accept further derailing of this thread and will remove any unrelated or uncivil comment.

-->I thought it could just as Physx could.
Apex is name of GPU-oriented part of physx. He can't eventually. But you can force it sometime and see slideshow in Borderlands2, for example. Btw, BF3 use Hawok Destruction 3.0 on CPU and feel good. Just are tools.

"But you can force it sometime and see slideshow in Borderlands2, for example."

What GPU and CPU would that be with?

My apologize to everybody and @Anachoretes with this story of pin, I wanted to prove it so I took my old computer with the 8800gtx to check the driver for PhysX last night, and surprise it was the selection of the screen ( 2 DVI and my old screen was a Sony ).

For my defense my father died last year, a hard part of my life and since I take pills to help me but whose troubling my mind sometimes, I'm so confuse, excuse-me for this, I'm not a lyer and I don't like to say wrong things, I prefer to check or to shut-up. I was convinced to say the truth. I wish for nobody to lost his father, and this damn pills.

However all without this I have said is true, and @Anachoretes check sometimes but anyway, this tread went too further with bad words, Fireball is true on that. I have deleted all my posts with wrong things on this pin or with bad words. It's to be an adult to recognize his faults, sorry.

And PEACE in the community to try to move on...

Its not going to happen in time for release (100% sure about that). So, if it will ever happen, its gonna come with an after-release patch. In my oppinion, this feature will never be implemented (this is what I think. Its just a feeling).

Yes well its cool you have an opinion and a feeling but could you explain why? I mean correct me if im wrong but have you ever worked with apex and physx?

@Raoul1234

No I havnt. We will see what the devs say to this thread.

Look at VBS 3 destruction system...

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VLwMzr-hBII

so they dont put this in arma 3 but in vbs 3 they do.

Reviewed and ignored, right? Just like all the other graphics related feedbacks, after all...

Well, I don't think so. There is a DirectX 12 Upgrade planned for this year for one, so they don't ignore all the fancy tech out there.

But I guess Apex would only makes sense if really dynamic destruction is considered, which would have a huge impact on multiplayer synchronization too. They got enough issues as it is without new features there. So, we'll have to hang in there and see what the roadmap features bring (http://arma3.com/news/arma-3-roadmap-2015-16). If anything, then for APEX update (guess the naming is coincidential though). :-)

PS: Above VBS is mentioned. BIS and BISim are completely separate companies for a while already and while some cooperation between the two companies still can be expected, they can't simply "take" VBS devs or resources for A3 for an engine rehaul. Then again, for basic engine, VBS and Arma are too far apart to simply "graft" such base features easily.

I vote to cloth simulation for parachutes. It doesn't really need synchronization and it would change the very old animation.

Addingt 2 things to this discussion.
Arma 3 uses the OpenSource variant of PhysX(provided by Nvidia) for reasons they at some point explained.
That means everyone is using their CPU... all the time. No GPU accelerations at all.
The actual problem is PhysX itself. The original PhysX can work multithreaded but is only allowed on Systems without a NV GPU. So a server (!) that has no GPU at all is not allowed to use The multicore functionality of PhysX. Arma 3 is a simulator where everything for every player needs to be the same regardless of the vendor that they got their parts from.
A alternative would be the Havok engine where GPU acceleration works on all cards and GPUs. ( Wont happen!)

In T69522#922670, @Raoul1234 wrote:

so they dont put this in arma 3 but in vbs 3 they do.

It's maybe because Bohemia Interactive Simulations is different company?