Helicopters are loud, deal with it.

Shrugs. I live next door to an airport. I already do. ;-)

Think I figured this out though.

When the chopper fully powers-up, the sound levels emitted never really vary based on throttle and rotor rate. The level of sound emitted is that of a chopper fully throttled and moving at greater than 200 MPH or full speed. When hovering, whether above ground a few feet or approximately 500 FT, sound levels should be greatly diminished!

Think it may be, sound effects are still in their infancy. I'll add the aforementioned data to the bug summary once I get confirmation.

You should also consider blade direction, that plays a huge part in how they sound, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZDOkDPFLxw

Community members have reported that helicopters currently have a few sound samples missing than they did in Arma 2, this may be a contributing factor, we'll just have to wait until beta to find out.

Good video. Five seconds into the video, is exactly what I experience with one of those about 500 feet above in the air. Notice everybody can talk and hear just fine? (Actually, the video is still a little louder from what I experience here when they're costing at about 500 ft altitude and 30-40 MPH overhead.)

I think what the poster is describing about blade direction, is when the underneath of the rotors are facing torwards you, as described within the first five seconds of the video. (ie. Rotor wash) However, at about 500 feet in the air and while flying overhead, the video after the five second introduction pretty accurately describes (DB) loudness -- maybe a little loud than I experience most times. The first five seconds is particularly loud. I would judge this distance about 300 feet. (I live near the end of a runway. ;-)

I agree, probably something again to sit back and watch. (Might be able to do more testing once parachutes are implemented and/or I'll spend some time on the ground.)

Awesome post. Nailed what I experience almost on the head with real life being able to talk and clap versus the game simulation drowning all sound out. ;-)

I'm just curious, but do you know why they wear headsets with microphones to communicate with each other when they are inside of a helicopter?? ;-)

I actually really liked that fact about ARMA 2, in that the sound effects are actually loud. It does add to the immersion that when you're near a helicopter it'll make it hard to communicate. Also, I think someone made a mention of this, but modern helicopters can alter the pitch of the rotors, so when it's landed and idling, while the rotors are spinning, they are relatively flat, so are not chopping the air. In this mode, they are actually relatively quiet. But when they change the pitch of the rotors to take off or when they are actively trying to add lift, you'll notice a significant increase in the decibel level...

Pretty much, helicopters are loud, that's just the way they are...

DemonMustang: Sort of already knew there were quieting features or sound reducing technology, but didn't want to spend time elaborating on it.

As far as the helmets and headsets for passengers, maybe somebody should advise BIS about this and provide them for passengers? ;-) Not too also think, do the darn pilot helmets even reduce any noise for pilots?

They should be quite loud as they are in real life, it comes down to just another challenge soldiers can face in real life with communication as you said you do ingame.

They should. They need to use the radio to communicate while flying...

In Arma 2 i always use the radio with ACRE to communicate with my group while being airlifted. This is both a more effectiv and more realistic way to communicate. Sadly ACRE aint integrated in Arma 3 so guess this aint a great solution of your problem.

Well, not yet, remember it's still in alpha...

I dont think ACRE ever will be integrated into arma but install it and it will solve your problem for all future and enhance your experience greatly! :)

I just did some testing and the helicopter rotor loudness is exponentially louder than in real life. Think approximately at least two to three times louder than real life helicopter loudness. So likely can reduce the helicopter loudness by two or three times, while still allowing the helicopter to still be loud when nearby. I cannot believe how unrealistically loud the game simulation is when comparing the loudness of the helicopter to voice (VON) chat.

Just tested with and without a helmet and no difference in loudness. Depending on the types of flight helmets, unknown if this one is suppose to muffle, silence, or enhance radio communications.

Guessing the sounds are only stencilled in and still require DB level adjustments.

ArmA 3's helicopters are so loud, they drown out ACRE radios too, unless you turn the radios up substantially in Teamspeak. As an example, the team I play on were standing on the tarmac a few nights ago getting ready for an op, when a helo was powering up, some 200 meters or more away. As this bird was powering up and then sitting stationary on the tarmac waiting for us, quite a few of us could NOT hear our radios, because the helo was drowning them out. Raising/lowering headset in ACRE didn't help. I had to turn ACRE up in TS to be able to hear over the helo, and keep in mind that helo was sitting a good 200 meters away.

I realize that in real life, helos are extremely loud; Chinooks and Blackhawks fly over my house all the time, sometimes so low I can see the facial expressions of the soldiers riding therein if they come over during the day. The Chinooks, especially, shake everything. But even when they're directly overhead, one can still hear and talk just fine. It's not like when F-16's fly over and you can hear nothing but the roar of the engines.

It really does sound as though the audio parameters in Arma 3 just aren't finished yet, when a helicopter flies overhead you don't hear the "woosh" that was present in Arma 2.

This is how it sounded in Arma 2 OA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aLHOExYXH4

If however you are very close or IN the helicopter then it's going to be much louder, here are some examples (actual lift occurs at 3:10) www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa_AINPYdEY

This is another good one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4s1T0uztF8 (begin at 4:20) due to being able to hear and see what occurs when the blade pitch changes at a very close distance, you can also hear people speaking on and off during the time but most of all it also gives a great case study of how direction and heading effect the sound since the helicopter turns, taxi's, lifts, flies off and then flies back.

And with a big ole chinook http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjNYUN8PxM8 I'd say the problem in A3 is that from a distance you hear the aircraft as though you were by it, all sounds rather than simply the blades beating against the air.

That said however, Beta is coming up and this being more vehicle oriented, SHOULD be addressed there...if Arma 2 had these functions then I can't see why A3 wouldn't.

I believe paravbs also has some experience here. I too have experienced F-16's at 0700 in the morning, and helicopters are nowhere near as deafening.

For simulating reality DB levels or to be able to even begin to hear radios, have to reduce Audio Effects to about 10% or so. To be able to hear the radio and TeamSpeak (or ACRE) within any noise environments being simulated, need to reduce Audio Effects further to 5%. Reducing Audio Effects may have side effects for people on the ground listening for foot steps within silent environments.

For game play, the game should also likely assume once you enter a chopper, you have also been given adequate noise suppression and a means for communicating via radio upon entry. A given, pilots likely already have enhanced noise suppression and/or communications? And then DB levels further balanced so helicopters are realistically loud, allowing for radio communications. Chopper loudness then should significantly be reduced at approx. 200-500 ft away -- enough to hear foot steps. ;-)

The more I think on this, the more it looks like things are stencilled in and require balancing for realism.

Crewman have helmets and radio equipment built into them for sure, not sure if grunts would be given any such things however.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEYtLCsJUgA interior with audio begins at 03:32, not sure if it is due to the training or standard practice but they have earplugs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7dFdkKrOAA seen again at 4:32
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taRK1UUXEYo again at 0:20

I can't seem to find it but a long time ago I saw a photo of a UH-60 pilot helmet, upon the back was a patch that read "Sit down, shut up and don't touch anything" Perhaps that is applicable, maybe helicopter rides are akin to the quiet game for passengers.

Or as one guy I met online said.. "If you're not part of the crew then fuck you." Charming fellow.

A moderator just closed my ticket which requested helicopter headphones, by saying that it was duplicating this issue. However, I didn't just say: "Helicopter Too Loud", I specifically requested a new OPTION for "headphones".

An ON/OFF keypress for Headphones could partially muffle the rotor sound and make voice comms (TeamSpeak 3 and/or in-game VON) clearer. Since wearing the headphones would be an OPTION, you could chose to use it, or NOT use it, based on your personal audio preference.

*I sincerely HOPE they get the message.

I think the common denominator when searching, "Helicopters Too Loud" is more easily found using a search engine versus terms limited to expertise. And further more, the choppers are still too loud when compared to realistic similar aircraft profiles. (Thinking they just have templates are stubs in for focusing on debugging.)

But now I understand your request. I do like your solution as it would provide some usefulness for the pilots helmet!

Think some maybe confusing the sound effect quality with loudness. Yes, the chopper blade effect sounds awesome, but it is too loud compared to other sounds within the game compared to foot steps, and most will have ear phones or headsets for radios.

I agree, they are too loud, well certainly the AH9. sitting in the KA60 with rotors spinning and have a KA60 land near renders comms useless for the KA60 crew as you can't hear.
I find the KA60 ok, volume wise.
Yes helicopters are loud, but not that loud inside that you can't hear comms. If it were the case that you couldn't communicate whilst flying, helicopters would be a pretty ineffective military tool.
As some others have pointed out, the pilots have helmets with headphones, this should negate the helicopter noise.
also, it would be nice to have headphones, as I like to fly when not wearing the helmet

Check your Sound > Effects setting and make sure it's set to default. (Should be around 80% or so, since there is no numbered interval associated with the slider.)

At defaults, both of the choppers are extremely loud and are far louder than communications here. To be able to even to begin to hear communications, I need to reduce to somewhere around 10% for effects. To really be able to hear and understand effects all the time, as if I had a headset or ear piece in, the effects volume here needs to be further reduced to 5%.

Some have stated, this seems to be dependent on your sound setup. And I can tell you, I'm hearing the sounds likely as the developers intended if they're using TosLink/HDMI through a home theater system. If you're using one of those tiny computer 5.1 sound system speaker systems, I can only speculate at the sound quality that is only possible. From what I'm guessing here, I'm pushing sound from the game through to the Dolby Decoder unaltered and hopefully unsampled. But you know how Windows is with sounds, everything tends to get resampled. But resampling should have little effect on this sound balancing issue.

My Sound Setup:
ASUS XONAR STX (with software frontend using generic/default settings)
TosLink
Yamaha RX-V375
5.1 Bose Speakers

It seems to me that if you are actually viewing the interior and not in 3rd person it is a reasonable loudness.

I'm not keen on the loudness of the immediate vicinity and within the interior of the aircraft. You maybe fairly correct on this. We've suggested ear plugs and audio headsets, which should be extremely effective for enhancing voice over network or radio communications.

I do know the external loudness is extremely excessive from the distances I've stated previously. Albeit, earlier than 1970's era aircraft maybe this loud from these external distances as well, but not our era of aircraft. The previously posted YouTube video dramatically demonstrates the ability to hear oneself extremely well including footsteps.

Guess the moral here, communication is still key within any circumstance. ;-)

It is so loud, some get extremely irritated as they're upset with the inability to hear foot steps and other communications, and tend to blame the pilots as they're unable make the balance within the Audio/Sound Level Options. But after I examined the levels more closely in comparison real life helicopters of this era, it was similar to comparing day versus night to me.

there could be a solution, using side chain compression here is a decription what it is http://www.soundzone.info/content/what-side-chain-compression

So for example, if this side chain compression would be implemented, the helicopter sounds would be reduced, when someone is speaking. Applues inside the chopper ofcourse.

My main gripe is that the sounds block out the engine failure/lock-on alarms.

I could be imagining things but I swear it sounds as though the third person view (from pilots perspective) is more quiet in some aircraft than inside, as though they have no muffling from helmets or the inside.

I never knew there were engine failure or lock-on alarm sounds!

As far as third person view vs inside sound, just guessing they've been tinkering with the sound volume levels within the latest developer releases.

Going to be tricky simulating ear plugs, or pilot headsets, or providing a good balance in favor of VON. Shrugs.

Just guessing, any soldier wearing head gear should be automatically provided with hearing protection or headsets, while civilians have an extra option for ear plugs and headsets, etc? Dunno.

If the sound levels are any better, I still find myself decreasing the Effects volume to 5%. Some people have really low microphone recording levels.

I think in current beta they're in more reasonable volume, when you're inside the helicopter. Can you confirm?

Yeah helicopters are more muffled from the inside now, if anyone tries to voice chat from the outside then they are just doing it wrong.

Thanks, marking resolved.

I cannot confirm as to whether volumes are more reasonable since my motherboard is in the shop for repairs. I have not been able to monitor this for the past two weeks, but two weeks ago, I think I noticed some subtle differences in volume. As to whether they're more realistic db levels when on the exterior or interior I'm not sure. The changes more than two weeks ago was a start in the right direction.

Think the overall issue though is VON usage here. People were in conflict with using the default Effects Sound level and trying to use VON within the chopper. VON was unusable, irritating people because they knew they chose to fly and, as such, couldn't blame the pilot for their choice.

Another point of conflict was the exterior chopper sound was excessively loud. (Albeit, sounded nice.) People likely using the default Effects Sounds level for listening to foot steps, were unable to hear foot steps and VON while on the ground and the choppers were hovering above at an apparently far distances. At this point, people would start blaming the pilot for flying too near, when in fact, the chopper was quite a distance away. This is debatable as choppers prior to 1970's were loud, while newer choppers are quieter due to technological advances. As to how to what levels they should be, people will likely need to get some db level readings, but can pretty much say people should be able to hear their own foot steps when the choppers are at a certain distance including having a normal discussion or using direct chat.

Another side note is implementing ear plugs and headsets, but this obviously adds an entire another level of slight complexities. I say, if the above previously mentioned issues are resolved, then no ex-Army guy is going to try to knock the pilots for the inaccurate db levels. If I have time after I reinstall my motherboard, I'll try to follow-up with any additional comments -- as I now see people can add comments after a bug has been fixed. ;-)

How far would "Far away" be? The blackfoot is louder than the ghost hawk and I'm checking other birds right now but overall unless it's right over you or you are right in front of it, it's not very loud.

Think most of this has been estimated already within the above history of this bug report. Somebody also amazingly submitted a video demonstrating some minimal DB sound levels. Anything more would require a DB meter. I have no computer to see if anything has been improved over the past two weeks.

Another thing to look at, loudness may be more at a chopper's lateral positions versus above or below it. I'm not sure if the game engine will display sound waves to this level of detail. Sometimes best to use good judgement and see VON or direct chat (audible voice including hearing enemy footsteps) features as a little more important or needed, versus the want of a nice loud chopper. (Else, going to be coding in and balancing ear plugs and headsets to provide a more accurate simulation.)

rogerx, VON should not be used as reference, since it roughly depends on the other player's microphone input volume. OTOH, our clan uses TS all the time and yes, if they're really next to a chopper (<10m), some can't hear other's talking, but as soon you get in, it's fine.

I think current levels are perfect and can be refined with individual minor sound adjustments. I'll close the bug in 2 weeks roughly (you can only add comments while it's not in closed state).

It's true, and I went through several tests in the airport, standing at one end of the airstrip and sending each helicopter off to the other. The ghost hawk was the most silent, the kajiman had the loudest thumping (to be expected for 3 blades), the blackfoot was a bit loud in its rotor downashing but nothing too serious.

All in all the sound faded to soft beating of rotors fairly quickly, and I could barely hear them when they reached midway on the runway.

Two weeks ago before my computer went to get fixed, VON versus Chopper effects were getting better. Now that I have my computer motherboard back, I checked the volume levels and the volumes are back to the volume levels prior to two weeks ago, if not louder?

I'm back to turning down my Effects volume to < 5% to just be able to hear people on VON while piloting or gunning for the AH-99 Blackfoot. Albeit, there is a slight difference between the exterior and interior of the AH-99, but it's negligible still requiring turning down Effects to < 5%!

(Many agreed that the chopper volume was loud making VON unusable, and further stated the volumes have been continually adjusted within the past weeks.)

2013:08.08 20:20 UTC- I just tested with and without headgear just to verify if the volume levels were tied into the headgear, and headgear had no effect on volume levels of chopper rotors/wash/noise. It should be noted, Chopper rotor wash or chopper rotor noise is controlled by the Effects volume level. The effects volume level controls many other effects such as foot steps and surrounding noise. I also haven't tested exterior db or volume level of the chopper rotor wash/noise at certain distances. Two weeks ago after some adjustment to chopper rotor noise, the db (volume) rotor noise level sounded better, but this might have changed since. (During next week, I'll again be without a computer for testing.)

From what I see, there are several solutions:

1. Screw the pilots. They don't need to hear all the whining girl passengers or other girly ground chatter anyways.

2. Reduce the volume of the chopper rotor wash/noise in an effort to make VON usable for pilots, co-pilots, and passengers without having to require them to reduce the Effects Volume levels.

3. Implement ear plugs and head gear with noise reducing features, and maybe implement the realistic noise db levels of chopper rotor wash/noise if realistic chopper rotor wash/noise db levels hasn't already been implemented. (ie. Add a middle mouse button menu item "ear plugs".)

4. Another solution, continue to require people to reduce the Effects Volume, which controls chopper rotor wash/noise db/volume levels, but we will continue to not be able to hear bullet ricochets, foot steps, and other surrounding effects noise controlled by the Volume Effects level. And, people will continue complaining they cannot hear while riding in choppers.

Sun, Aug 11, 2013 01:33 - Spent some more time with default volume settings and noticed VON is barely usable when flying the quieter Ghosthawk, while some low volume VON was inaudible. The Blackfoot AH-99 is so loud with pilot/copilot, VON is unusable unless Volume Effects is adjusted to less than 5%. I had trouble replicating exterior loudness as the server had few players. I'll try a little later. It is likely, the volumes may be more realistic, and there maybe more of a need now to integrate noise dampening devices to make VON usable while on-board or near aircraft. I'll be back in a few hours or so.

Mon, Aug 12 17:22 - Checked the Mohawk's effects sound level and, similar to the Ghosthawk, VON is barely usable with the default sound level. (Haven't checked the Little Birds, and probably won't be able to for another week or so.)

I think the volume levels are fine. And you can manually adjust them, so I wouldn't change a thing.

Finally got around to playing the game last night.

Well true you can manually adjust, requires keys ESC > Mouse Click Configure > Mouse Click Audio > Reduce Effects to less than 5-10%. (Note, some Team Speak audio tends to be low level when compared to in game sound, making sound levels more of a hassle.)

Or they could implement ear plugs and headsets with noise dampening, for which is what a headset is used for within the game rather than just wearing something that makes one look like a good pilot.

This isn't really much of a problem with ground troops, as it's more of a problem for pilots and those riding within choppers trying to utilize VON. Also, pilots have to deal with all the whining of this issue as,

1. Some people do not know how to adjust the volume levels.

2. Fiddling with volume levels after getting into the chopper for a quick ride, and again fiddling with the volume levels after getting out is really troublesome for most players, including me. (I find most just keep there mouth shut and refuse to try to utilize VON while taking a ride, like a good passenger should. ;-)

I think the sound levels over all are getting more tolerable for effective VON usage, but VON still becomes inaudible unless still turned down to around 5-10% levels. Ear plugs and Headset noise dampening seems to be the solution here. There might be only so many items one can add to the middle mouse button menu, or only so much developer time.

Shrugs. Might have to mark fixed the best we could, or leave hanging open.

rogerx, I believe to suspect that either your stereo/surround/whatever configuration is not correct or it's rather actually an in-game VON issue.

Using TS I have no problems with game sound effects at 90%.

Maybe the ticket needs to be rephrased or even re-done, on the subject of in-game VON. I must confess, I never tested in-game VON vs helicopters.

how can you suggest the problem may be related to sound config settings when you've never tested von vs helos?
the von issue is a problem when in the helos, if it was a config issue as you suggest, it'd no doubt affect everything.

I agree with realKHz, Fireball's explanation doesn't make sense.

Also, I'm merrily piping audio via S/PDIF TosLink to my DAC, so it's typically unmixed as MS Windows' extra sounds are muted.

Now Fireball might have one of those low end computer sound speaker systems, which I can then imagine the sound would be of a lesser quality or of a lesser volume, similar to hearing 8 bit sound. Or maybe even headsets without any bass? (I tend to enjoy 16 bit Stereo PCM Symphony/Orchestra music being piped to a stereo via S/PDIF Toslink into a typical home receiver, which the receiver mirrors the sound into a 4 or 5 speaker configuration.) The receiver transcodes the AC3/Dolby signal from the game as well. As I previously stated, I'm likely hearing the sound as the game sound engineers intended for it to be heard. No more and no less, and I've been completely honest within this report.

I would not have opened this bug until others' redundantly kept blaming the pilots for your guys' extremely loud helicopter noise preventing VON usage, direct chat, and foot steps not being heard. ;-) (Geesh! Obviously typical Army guys who blame the only person in sight for other's problems!) Granted, I believe in realism, but realism also includes headsets and earplugs as a means to allow communications.

Now put an average guy in the pilot's seat, and he might end-up running home crying to Mommy because they keep picking on him because of his loud chopper!

I still think the AH-99 is still much louder than the video attached to this bug. (Notice you can audibly hear people having a normal conversation with this type of helicopter 25-50 feet away, including possibly footsteps.) I'm not too fussy with the noise level, as I think radio ear plugs and headsets are likely a more ideal solution. Another solution would be to temporarily reduce the background noise when VON is transmitting/receiving.

This is just bits & bytes, and there's likely many more solutions out there!

As of last night, I still continue to reduce Sound Effects to 5-10% whenever piloting. It's a real hassle. For the love of God, imagine the hassles the young full-of-knowledge teeny boppers are facing with VON vs Helicopter noise!

maybe the acre mod might help? I going to have to give it a go when the full game is released, hopefully that'll resolve it

Would you please read my post entirely before replying I said it was EITHER...OR.

I have an high-end gaming headset (not audiophile stuff, but very good still), 5.1 with subwoofer module. I agree the choppers are loud, but it works very well with TS.

So please read again what I wrote, PAST the first half sentence.

EDIT:

Elaborating what I'm coming after; I think the ticket is just fixed on the fact that choppers are loud, but they're not TOO loud in my or many others opinions, so I suggest that we modify the ticket to focus on VON being too bleak, or - because there are already many downvotes - close this one and generate a new ticket which focuses specifically on VON (instead of choppers).

aside from the fact that your post makes very little sense and is almost completely redundant, you admit you haven't even tried the helicopter/von issue, so whether or not you said "either" or not, is meaningless when you haven't even tested it.

too many of these tickets are closed because people like you are either too stupid, ignorant, or lazy to really look into them. i'm finished wasting my time submitting bugs/concerns if you're too lazy to investigate.

edit - 33 votes is not MANY other opinions, and closing this ticket to create a new one to "focus on von" when it's specifically, von relating to the helicopters, is nonsensical

Actually, I don't blame them for trying to close the bugs or feature requests that are impossible, or are too extravagant, especially as release roles near. They're likely trying to do the best they can, and they could have closed this bug for any old XYZ reason but also likely realize the lacking of VON or communication volume.

Fireball, I did read you entire post as I'm an avid reader. If I misconstrued something, it wasn't intentional.

As I see it, any how you reword the bug, or close and open another rephrased to your liking, it's still going to require a similar solution, if not the same solution. It's not my decision, and I probably will not spend time reopening or commenting on another bug concerning this bug.

Bottom line is, the majority of people I play the game with online, cannot use VON while as passenger. Whether how many spend time here reading, voting and filing bugs, I do not know. But do not be surprised if there's another minority count compared to the number playing the game. (I'm talking about people spending more than an hour a day reading and actively monitoring bugs. ;-)

Relax... it's only a bug or feature request!

What are you talking about "they"? I'm not Bohemia Interactive. It seems like that there are roughly 50% who agree with me, that it isn't a big deal.

But okay, I also see you (and the people you play with) have got a point there. Let's leave this as it is currently.

EDIT: Make sure your passengers and yourself switch to 1st person view while in a helicopter, this will help voice communication a big deal.

Update; I just played Invade & Annex today and there was lot of talking in in-game VON and I was passenger in a helicopter (Mohawk and Ghosthawk) frequently and when I was in first person, it was whisper-silent, absolutely no problem for everybody to talk.

Sound effect settings at 90%.

FIXED?? Really?! OMG bring loud helicopters back...

my ticket was closed for being a duplicate if this one. however my ticket specifically related to the MH9/AH9 which you didn't bother trying. so well done for closing this and demonstrating unparalleled ignorance!

*slow claps*

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=8872

Spent some time yesterday sitting in different seats of the Mohawk at default Sound/Audio Effects volume levels, and noticed the passenger compartment is more quiet than the pilot seat, making VON audible.

When in the pilot seat of the Mohawk, I find I need to quickly revert to less than 10% Effects volume level as my ears apparently grow quickly tired of the extremely loud helicopter blade noise and straining to discern VON chat. But again within the passenger compartment, I seemed to be alright with 100% Sound/Audio Effects (default) volume. (From memory, the co-pilot seat is a similar experience to the pilot seat?)

Also appears positional audio maybe working but in vehicle chat(!), as I noticed my left speaker on my Dolby system was working for the co-pilot. This may also dampen sound quite a bit as sound isn't being heard on the center channel! Think positional audio likely shouldn't be on Vehicle (or specific channesl) chat, and only for Direct Chat. (Direct Chat being far too low too hear, but I realize this might have been when my Effects volume is set to less than 10%!)

The MH9/AH9 are much quieter than the Mohawk & AH-99. (But they may have recently changed the volume levels for the MH9/AH9. (Oddly, the older MH9/AH9 models can be quite loud!) Going from memory, the Ghosthawk is well tolerable. This ticket specifically focuses on a broader field of terminology, with the main intent on providing a better radio or Voice Over Network functionality. (They close bugs as duplicates due to votes/popularity, date submitted, ... pretty much a guessing game.) I search quite well for bugs prior to submitting, and would have definitely tagged onto your bug, but you did not include common search terms of "helicopter" or "chopper". (You can add search terms within the Tags field separated by commas. ;-)

Unless something is noted within the Developer Change Log, I try to keep quiet about guessing about possible audio related changes, in order to not provide conflicting information.

OK. Now this bug is closed, and Bug #0008872 is opened.

I give up. :-/

Rogerx, it's good testing what you did and you boiled it down to the very core of the issue you're experiencing, namely that the pilot and copilot seat apparently are too loud compared to the passenger compartment.

First of all, it's not "closed", else you couldn't comment, and second, instead of just "giving up", just make the ticket fit to the narrowed down topic of your detailed findings.

Oops, sorry for concluding it was closed; my mistake.

Just irks me some conclude it is, so we can't make it any better. Sometimes letting go, is best! (Reminds me of trying to fix girls. ;-) Thanks noting the time spent, albeit, it is minimal compared to those spending time programming.

As far as the topic and summary, it's really a dynamic bug and narrowing it to just pilot/co-pilot versus passengers sound levels will omit the fact radio headgear needs to be implemented.

In reality, I think the pilots' position maybe more louder due to less insulation or sound dampening between them and the rotors. For the pilots, they only have glass between them and the rotors. (I speculate this, and the game's sound engineers will likely know the facts.)

At this point, I think I would rather suggest something along the lines of keeping the topic; but proposing the final solution of implementing radio headgear, in order to improve VON usage.

Whether it's marked as "Won't Fix", leaving the community to implement, I'll be satisfied. (As long as the programming/scripting hooks are in for scripting and adjusting volume levels, the community can likely implement a solution.)

I think bug #8872 and this bug are basically going to involve the same or similar solution.

This totally flew over me until just now, but why not just imply all the radios within the game already have radio headgear included? Or issue two different types of radios, hand held radios and headset radios? Atypically, most players will use headset radios.

I should also make mention, all radios appear to be already of the headset type of radio because players are not seen using their hands with the hand held radios while performing other tasks. As such, they're head sets. And as such, the volumes should be well audible within noisy environments. And, pilot helmets should already be fitting with noise dampening?

I also did some testing with and without a pilot helmet sometime ago and think I remember zero difference between the noise levels with and without a pilot helmet.

Rogerx, we just need the ticket to be more specific now and narrow it down on the pilot/copilot seat of the affected choppers (all?); can you please modify the ticket as to make it precise?

There is much more chance to get a 'tweak' done on those positions as to ask for global changes such as "headphones for all pilots" (aka feature), even though it might have the same effect.

If you want to insist on the headphones idea, be my guest, but it might take longer to be picked up (or not at all).

Well since the passengers seem to be subjected to less rotor noise, this bug would seem to really only affect pilots and copilots.

But if we get down to doing the right thing, the right thing is to implement appropriate volume levels according to each person's type of radio headgear; whether they're wearing a pilot helmet (with radio) or combat gear with radio headset. And I can just imagine the right thing would take a week tweaking via programming (or changing configuration files) and testing. Everything is there as far as hardware, just need individual volume levels implemented.

I'll sleep on this tonight and will likely augment the title of the bug to specify effecting pilot & copilot, and likely let realKHz have the glory with the right solution if it gets implemented.

\o/ woohoo!
*bathes self in glory* ;)

I just realized, people voted for the said issue as it is stated.

I'll readjust some items, further clarifying the issue based on my further testing and my possible solutions, but will keep the bug as voters intended to vote for or against.

If you insist on keeping it the same as the players originally voted for, then I will mark it resolved, because since creation of the ticket, the sound levels have been adjusted for the helicopter interiors, spoken as whole.

I can only speculate here external sound levels have been adjusted to reflect real world levels of external sound. I noticed some initial adjustment when this bug was opened, then they reverted to previous levels on a successive patch. But since opening this bug, nobody else has complained about the external sound levels, so I would imagine this bug was partially resolved, or people just dealing with this part of the bug.

I, for one, can sit within the passenger seats of the Mohawk/Ghosthawk and now hear VON communications. Not so for pilot seats. (AH-9/MH-9's are still loud, but this is being moved to Bug #0008872.)

However for pilots, this bug still exists as my testing indicates above. The likely final solution would be to reduce Audio Effects Levels to approximately 5-10 percent while wearing pilot headgear. (The title of this bug still very well applies, as pilots cannot utilize VON, and the solution only targeted passengers.)

So within the sound module or within the code, "If person is wearing pilot headgear; then reduce Audio Effects Levels to approximately 5-10 percent."?

This solution would then likely provide an effective resolution for this bug.

However, I do not know how much dampening pilot headgear dampens noise, or the exact levels of enhanced audio communications the pilot headgear provides. Once the pilot is on the ground, I imagine they then can take-off or stash their headgear into their backpack. This would also likely mimic real world headgear, and the fact some just want to look good while flying without pilot headgear. This may also likely provide a partial solution for Bug ##0008872.

I cannot ethically play with others' votes, and cite the topic already well covers what I just stated within this post!

Without pilots, these guys would be walking and driving to and fro to the area of operations. (Jet pilots are also effected. And there's no difference between wearing pilot headgear or going without headgear.)

Helicopter pilots are within the severe minority due to so few of them having an available slot available within the game servers.

EDITED: Deleted my incorrect speculation on Jets not being affected by this bug.

My take on this appears to be from a VON related problem.

Ok, I just played around in the editor with a "flying" Mohawk/Ghosthawk, once me as player in control (pilot) and then as a rifleman using moveInCargo in the back.

I can't help it, but for me it's both the muffled the same way and very acceptable. Please confirm.

I might even make a video showing that the sound is the same volume wherever you sit in the chopper for me, but I can't make any sense out of this ticket anymore. If you still think it's too loud, please make a video cutting both a cargo position and pilot position together - I'm really curious.

you should try the mh9/ah9 as per the ticket that was closed and ignored for this one.
it does seem to be better now, but it's not great

If I'm not mistaken, the Ghosthawk is much more quieter, and really isn't an issue with this bug. The Mohawk is much louder.
The AH-9/MH-9 are just plain loud, but understandably so.

As to why you don't notice a difference, it might be the different game build version we're using. When I get around to it, I'll do some experimenting with the latest stable version. (I've noticed changes tend to occur with a version change, and then subsequent versions the changes were reverted.)

You should also note Fireball, if you're only playing the game and outputting five or ten watts, you'll only notice roughly a 1 watt difference in sound levels. If you're putting out 100 watts per 5.1 speaker channel, you'll notice an exponential difference.

(If I haven't made mention already, notice there's options to wear sunglasses or pilot helmets with sun glare protection, and wearing them or not wearing them does not dim the sunlight at all! So you can see evidence game developers are trying to get a good base down, but have omitted these issues.)

I continue to have to turn down effects to 10% while flying as pilot in order to be able to use VON, and then revert the Effects to default (~90%) volume level while not flying.

I might be mistaken, but I have yet to hear of anybody else's sound setup here, in case it is an issue with sound channels. But from Bug #9158, "Helicopter Headphones - I can't hear teammates over noise!" it's the same similar situation for headphone users. As such, either this was fixed within a developer version or the latest patch to stable, or Fireball isn't properly reproducing. I just tested the latest stable patched version, and the Effects sounds sound more dubbed down concerning the chopper rotor noise. Both pilot seat and passenger seats (of the Mohawk and Ghosthawk) appear to be equal in sound levels. As to whether this fixes people being able to use VON effectively, likely a step in the right direction.

If somebody insists this is a VON issue, I can guarentee you the issue will then be kicked back to simulated individual equipement. Being in that, the pilots should have simulated noise cancelling and radio headsets, making VON/radio usage audible over Effects noise.

Anybody else notice the chopper rotters being dubbed down, or is it just me incorrectly guessing?

First of all I've tried both Ghosthawk AND Mohawk (just to make sure I'm not missing anything) and second, the AH9/MH9 ticket is open again since they seem to be a case on their own.

Long story short, you write:

"I just tested the latest stable patched version, and the Effects sounds sound more dubbed down concerning the chopper rotor noise. Both pilot seat and passenger seats (of the Mohawk and Ghosthawk) appear to be equal in sound levels. As to whether this fixes people being able to use VON effectively, likely a step in the right direction."

It's exactly what I observed and what I want to know from you and if possible even more people, hence "feedback". Could you PLEASE first test and then exclaim?

Has the ticket always been pilot and co pilot? If so then I feel like a dumbass for my previous statement, I thought it was concerning guys in cargo.

Pilots should DEFINITELY have quieter sound to simulate the earmuffs in their helmet.

I did retest last night and I guess I wasn't clear enough in describing the my last sentence of my last post. I noticed apparently equal sound DB levels within the pilot seat and passenger cabin, as well as possibly the rotor sound being softened on the choppers, likely providing more realistic sound levels. But the slightly reduced sound levels is speculation as I see no changes within the Developer Changelog. Not only this, I still find I have to reduce the Effects level to 5-10%, as the rotor blades are just overwhelming.

If the sound levels were reduced, I speculate the developers may have done so to sort of fix people not hearing VON or chat while they're seating in a helicopter. At least they can hear, and if they're smart players, they'll know to reduce sound Effects levels while seated for long periods in a helicopter?

Ditto NodUnit. They should comment the code within the sound module and modify the code to simulate wearing hearing protection or radios. I speculate most soldiers with most helmets or headgear are already simulated wearing radio headgear or having noise canceling features anyways.

As ProGamer stated, another solution would be to boast the VON/chat levels? Which would simulate wearing headsets? (Maybe this is what ProGamer was stating?)

Helicopters now at times when you are inside them with no protection or outside with no protect seem way to quite and do not interfer with communication anymore. Unless you are wearing protection or what you are doing would have protection then the sound should affect VON by making you have to speak much louder.

It was more fun when sound realistically affected your communication and you had to really speak up to communicate.

When you state "no protection", you're stating "if there were (hearing) protection"?

Is there something new within the Developer Version concerning this Bug/Issue?

It's pretty much reflex for me nowadays (and likely along with many other pilot players) to simply turn down Effects to 5-10%. I hear of others on the 23rd also stating we shouldn't have to do this. Although I dislike constantly turning down effects and then returning the effects volume back up when not flying, I find I have no other choice.

I agree with ProGamer, it would be nice to have hearing protection or headsets integrated into the game -- even if they are just merrily integrated or assumed within the current equipment as specified above (ie. helmets include headsets and radios are assumed to have headsets.), as not having the protection equipment boasts the realism of the game displaying the awesome loud sound mixing of the rotor wash.

Even with today's technology you could sit in a helicopter and not even hear it. It's called active noise cancelling(do your own research). And yes, helicopter crews do use an intercom to communicate with each other, and there are often extra headsets for some of the passengers to jack into. The age of shouting really loud to communicate inside aircraft is gone and has been gone for ages now, save a few exceptions.

Making it so that you have to speak up to communicate with a pilot via radio is not realistic, it's stupid.

Reading how a lot of you are concerned about "realism" it's worthy of a sigh how uneducated some of you are on the subject of realism in the first place, or so it would appear.

Upvoted

Helicopter sounds at the moment seem way to quiet for those in positions were they would not have protection or not full protect.

Goblinbutt: Yup. Although I would find it really easy to blame some for not knowing anything about helicopters, more realistically it's likely the developers did or do not have time the fix this issue further. I speculate they were likely going to implement ear plugs at some point, along with noise canceling radios, etc. (I can easily see how this would require a few functions or modules of code in order to implement properly.)

ProGamer: Although not realistic, many beginners have issues talking on the radio/VON. Make the game or simulation any more realistic, and it would take days to learn how to play it. Those whom work for a living, only have an hour or less of free time per day. ;-) I think, if one has a radio, it should be assumed one has noise canceling tech or ear plugs in. (Or implement a middle mouse menu 'activate noise canceling or earplugs' option?) Come to think of it, the UH-80 Ghosthawk is quiet and likely the chopper you're referencing, while the others (Mohawk, AH-9, MH-9, ...) are much much louder. Every chopper is different.

I do not believe the issue is that helo engines are too loud, but that in game VON is too soft/poor quality. No such issues if you use ACRE or TFR.

Well, the in game VON seems loud enough if I reduce the audio of the other channels if necessary, such as reducing Audio "Effects" to 5-10%. ;-)

You do have a point about audio quality of the current VON, as being just adequate. I've already mentioned elsewhere, likely on the ACRE related feedback/bug pages, that the audio quality adjustment of VON should be also exported to scripting. (As well as VON channels.) Allowing server administrators and clients to control the quality of VON, versus just setting the quality statically to account for users on slow connections or limited network bandwidth connections. I'm guessing I encounter 10-20% inaudible VON traffic due to users not properly adjusting their microphone recording to appropriate levels, and not speaking within the proper distance of their microphone, or using poorly made hardware. (ie. USB embedded stuff) Couple that with VON quality set to 30-70% quality, the audio clarity problems become exponential. Further couple this with loud background noise such as chopper engine & rotors, with no hearing protection, clearly hearing somebody becomes almost impossible.

Related to http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=20581

Ditto concerning having to open the settings menu.

Easy method would be to integrate any type of quick menu item (ie. Comm Headset), which would activate a function reducing the Sound Effects to 5-10%, instead of having the player manually do this each time they need to. This function would simply simulate placing on a communication sound filtering helicopter headset.

From here, this quick programming hack could easily lead to an "Ear Plugs" menu item for pistol training.

Heck with my surround sound system hear, It would almost be kind of nice to buy a helicopter headset and plug it in along side the surround sound system. This last sentence is noteworthy on the engineering design of the sound effects within ARMA 3, but probably not a feasible and realistic idea.

ebay: I notice you've posted some reasonable feedback concerning several other issues, so thanks for your time!

Ran into a server which had a script called Simple Earplugs (ie. simpleEP.sqf), which placed a simple yellow text option within the middle mouse menu, with the options of "Put on ear plugs" and "Take off ear plugs". Seems to work like a charm.

Except for the grammar. More or less, "Put in ear plugs" and "Take out ear plugs" seems to have a little better grammar usage to me.

I believe the following script can be found here:
Downloads / Arma 3 / Editing / Scripts / Simple Earplugs

The script I'm looking at here is copied below:
$ cat scripts/simpleEP.sqf
_u = _this select 0;
_p = ["<t color='#ffff33'>Put on ear plugs</t>",{

_s = _this select 0;
_i = _this select 2;
if (soundVolume != 1) then {
        1 fadeSound 1;
        _s setUserActionText [_i,"<t color='#ffff33'>Put on ear plugs</t>"];
} else {
        1 fadeSound 0.2;
        _s setUserActionText [_i,"<t color='#ffff33'>Take off ear plugs</t>"];
}

},[],-90,false,true,"","_target == vehicle player"];
_u addAction _p;
_u addEventHandler ["Respawn",{

1 fadeSound 1;
(_this select 0) addAction _p;

}];

I think we can mark this bug as solved with this script, as it gives us what we need to fix this bug. Granted for immersion, having radio headsets for pilots would be best. But I am also for leaving in unassigned as users can see it is a real and current bug with ARMA 3 (or a feature needed and not provided by the default ARMA 3 program), so users can easily find within bug queries and see a possibly workaround within the comments. (Closed bugs are not found within default bug queries.)

Probably instead of closing, should be a status option for "Recognized, but not fixing (and fix or workaround maybe contained within the posted bug comments.)" This will prevent many future duplicates from arising all the time, and the bug will be easily found within queries, as closed bugs are not found by default. As well as, closed bugs almost always contain fixed or improperly filed bugs.

Another option commonly used for status is, "Open, and upstream bug."