these are Soldiers who are using their weapons for years... they should be used to that recoil and almost dont have any
how it is now: feels like a little girl is shooting a rifle for the first time and not a soldier.
you want to be realistic , but this recoil you have in game is not realistic at all...
fire a weapon
Poor delusional cod boys. You are supposed to be that soldier, your avatar is simply holding the gun. If anything recoil is too uniform and predictable.
I've fired alot of weapons in the Marine Corps, recoil isn't that hard to handle but I've never fired a 6.8mm I'm sure they got that one right though.
I have fired a M4, M16, M9, M110, M24, M249, M240, AK-47, Ak-74, MP5, MP7, .300 winmag, 1911, and various mounted 50cal-minigun. The recoil is too high on some rifles in this game. The amount of barrel hop up is a little to much for the combat postitions.
@Ghostile
yes i have , g36 has almost no recoil could fire it one handed and still hit better than these "Soldiers" in game...
even the mighty g3 has less recoil and it fires 7.62x51
im not very strong but have handled various guns before so i can control the recoil. this is ridiculous in game for a soldier who is shooting a pretty small round in the alpha (6.8mm, smaller than 7.62 which i can handle on a Draco perfectly)
I feel like the idea is to put the player in charge of recoil control to introduce a degree of skill. If anything this will drive off COD kiddies who are use to point-clicking. The recoil means you have you learn weapon control on your own, not just rely on the avatar being a trained soldier.
"
Poor delusional cod boys. You are supposed to be that soldier, your avatar is simply holding the gun. If anything recoil is too uniform and predictable. "
Point made perfectly, ARMA 3 is played with PLAYER SKILL SETS, which means YOU control the recoil, not your avatar.
If you know that you're putting out a 5 round burst, you should slightly pull your mouse down as you're firing to negate the recoil effects.
Lying prone with machinegun has recoil that goes upwards even though there are visual representation of bipod on the ground. I think this should be fixed and have the weapons recoil go backwards and not upwards.
Otherwise yes, use mouse to counter the recoil. You need to train in this game compared to simpler shooters.
Even girls can handle recoil better then arma soldiers do. All you have to do is pull the stock against your shoulder. If i want to play xbox kinect, i do so.
I agree that recoil should be handled as in Operation Arrowhead, where it appears to be "controllable", i.e. the soldier pushes against the recoil.
While some argue "it's a simulator", I agree, but then I want to be able to control it somehow, which is not really possible right now - I have no way to push against recoil manually - I can only pull down the rifle after it has climbed up so much, like it happens when someone absolutely does not know how to shoot.
I think we're supposed to be some sort of trained soldier in there, so little better simulated control of weapon should be expected.
Seems the gamers think it is realistic and the people who have actually fired a weapon say recoil is way to high.
like i said, 6.8mm ammo is pretty small but still recoils worse than the AKs in ArmA 2
@EVERYONE
You are supposed to counter the recoil with your mouse, exactly how you do with your hands/arms/shoulders in real life.
/thread
it's abit weird at the moment, the opfor weapons seem to have way less recoil than the blufor ones, though both are 6.5 mm rounds
on the other hand, the "sniper" rifle 7.62 has also way more recoil than the LMG 7.62
they need to work these ones out
6.8 from what i've seen/heard is pretty manageable. "It's got the power of a 7.62 with the recoil of a 5.56", if you're into marketing strats.
I'm trying to remember from when I used to shoot about 7/8 years ago (so memory might be a little off!) and was a marksman, but I actually think the recoil should go ever so slightly higher in regards to how much the weapon kicks on screen. Especially when shooting burst or fully auto.
However, shooting single rounds, it's pretty easy for a marksman to get the sight to come back down almost exactly where originally aimed. So perhaps the sight should come back closer to the original shot, unless shooting on burst or fully auto.
I haven't tried all the guns in the game but I don't see a problem with the recoil being to high.
I see stiffxxX comparing it to firing several types of guns. What one need to keep in mind is that the recoil can vary vastly on the same gun aswell, not just different guns. Changing the ammo, putting on a silencer, muffler, colb, stance etc. will all vary the recoil ALOT!
You can use subsonic ammo and silencer on a rifle and have almost no recoil and then take of the silencer, padding on your shoulder and use supersonic ammo. The difference will leave a nice mark on your shoulder.
I have fired AK-47, 74, AKM, PK, RPK and TT pistol in the army, recoil on is definitely lesser, but the main issue here is that aiming in the game is way too hard, even after lots of practice, in real life it's much easier to zero in and follow the target as you have more control over the weapon. Aiming system must be tweaked in order to make aiming easier and faster. Im not saying hitting targets from few hundred meters is easy, but certainly it is easier to acquire a target.
Arma 2 was really weak on recoil and felt like crap compared to arma 1. Recoil only seems strong because you are zooming in on the weapon while firing. Also try sitting down there is almost no recoil when doing that.
The recoil of the G36 is slightly even above normal. Still have not tested other weapons. I agree that the game should be realistic and we are not asking anything like COD, but should keep interest in the game to shoot.
@Kid18120: I think it's a little more complicated you control the recoil of the weapon in mouse than using arms in real life, don't you think?
After testing various weapons ingame, I as a experienced player (since OFP1 back in 2001) can say, reduce recoil by 10-15% - it is just a hair too strong, but only when kneeling and standing.
Even when prone, it could take 10% less recoil, since on most if not all rifles, its still too strong even when prone.
Only lmg needs to be greatly reworked, way too much recoil when prone.
Just take a tiny fraction off of the recoil, pls?
Will lower frustration with them 600m-headshot enemies I already encountered, once again.
You can keep acting like a child Prospekt all you want, but some of us have been playing ArmA for years.
Recoil is fine. Just be snappier with your mouse. If anything, it just needs to be tuned down slightly. Problem is enemies appear to be not as badly affected by it as players (better recoil management than A2?)
The weapons in the game fire the 6.5x39mm Grendel round (not 6.8). Having fired said round the recoil is somewhere between 5.56 and 7.62 but still not anywhere near what the 7.62 round feels like. The main issue with the recoil in general is that it is not recoil in the modern sense. The gun rises up into the air as if the laws of gravity and your hands do not exist.
An accurate portrayal of recoil for someone holding a weapon properly is to have the firearm compress against the shoulder with negligible shift up and to the right ( for a right eye dominant shooter ) or up and to the left ( for a left eye dominant shooter ). This is assuming that the shooter is shooting with eye dominance as a factor and not based on their dominant hand.
If the recoil were halved and changed to be more realistic in function with a random sector chosen for recoil and the current recoil halved we would have something nearing what I would consider realistic for the round being fired. The one thing I do not want to see is the return to the OFP system where you rested your crosshairs on a point and the rifle returned to that spot over time.
These are my reflections based on firing from the crouched/prone position only as they are the only positions I fire from in real life.
I think that the recoil is fine as it is. The only problem with the recoil is when you are in prone, it is just a little bit to strong
I also believe that the AI seem to have less recoil problems than the player which can be annoying at times.
so basically what your saying is the weapons are "just to real for you(over the top) The recoil is fine if anything they need to add more to the horizontal sway you also have to take into consideration the fact that the scope needs to be zeroed and their is also wind direction so youll need to compensate for those aswell
ill agree that the recoil is a tad to much on the BLUFOR weapons, but not by much, the previous games did recoil just fine, i do NOT want to see it decreased from A2 levels.
Arma 2 felt fine, thats right, there you also had more rcoil towards you than up and right
i also feel by now that the recoil up while prone is way too much, especially if the weapons rounds resemble 5.56-like power most of the time
The problem is not the recoil, but the fact the sight doesn't reset to his inital position after the recoil.
currently the sight stop at the maximum recoil effect position, while the sight should go back to where the shot started, like it was in arma 2.
IRL you don't need the compensate the recoil like that, above all shooting semi-auto. the gravity will make your rifle get back in the initial position. your rifle would not magically gradually aim higher after each shots to finish at shooting at the sky after 30 rounds.
I seriously have no problems hitting targets from the standing position with iron sights on both the standard issue rifles of opfor/blufor at medium range (100m-200m) with burst fire and less than 100m with full auto. I don't understand the trouble people are having. Are you trying to hit targets 300 meters or more with full auto or something?
Everybody that is still of the opinion that those who are complaining about the muzzle climb and overall feeling of the weapon do just want to have a silly fps pee shooter, please read keenly what's been wrote here about the problem.
Cychou for example made a good point: Not matter if you consider that amount of muzzle climb "realistic" or not, after releasing the trigger gravity and muscle memory will bring the gun back approximately to the area you began shooting (not saying it would be right on target again). That's just how it is in reality. Otherwise you would have to hold the gun up to the sky intentionally. That's just completely unnatural.
Let alone firing weapons like the LMGs from a deployed prone position. There is hardly any vertical muzzle movement.
And most of those saying the recoil isn't simulated right, know about how to use the weapons. You guys don't have to tell everybody: "You should fire semi automatic or in burst." or "You should consider that, do this, before complaining." Would make the discussion a lot more bearable.
As a 25yr. Infantryman with a good 10 of those years as a Rifle Company shooting instructor I can confidently say that the current modelling of muzzle rise (notice I didn't say recoil) in Arma 3 is wrong. By the way, it is also poorly done in Arma2 ACE.
Note that I have not fired any of the A3 weapons myself in real life.
We need to assume that the variables that go into shooting any firearm are equal across the board for each soldier in game. These variables are such things as strength, eyesight, training, experience, fitness, etc.
Calibre of round makes very little difference in muzzle rise because (in simple terms) the weapon itself is designed to compensate for the increased power as the calibre goes up. Things such as barrell weight, receiver operating mechanism, position of furniture (forestock, pistol grip, etc.), and many others.
In the prone position, wth a rifle, firing single rounds, and holding the weapon properly (which we assume is being done by the game soldier) the weapon will rise straight up and come back down into the same sight picture. The muzzle does not go up and to the right and stay there as it currently does in game. The amount of rise is of little significance in this case; however, I would cut it in half of what it currently is.
In the kneeling position unsupported, single round, the muzzle will rise and move slightly to the right but then it will come back down into, relatively, the same sight picture. Once again, in game it is too drastic and needs to be lessened in terms of how much it moves horizontally as well as vertically.
In the standing position unsupported, single rounds, the current model is not far off. I could live with it; however, the muzzle will come back down into a very loose ( may be off to the right and a little high) original sight picture.
I am not even going to talk about firing a rifle in automatic mode as, even in the prone position, hitting anything greater than 50 metres away is difficult at best. In fact we rarely if ever trained to fire from greater than 25 or 50 metres distance. At that range you need to aim at the lower left (in sitting, kneeling and standing position) of a man size target to have any chance of more than the first round making contact. Automatic fire is an option on modern rifles to be used in house clearing or short range firefights (such as counter-ambush) where amount of lead down range is more important for suppression than accuracy.
In regard to LMGs, MMGs, and the like, with bipod being used, and firing from the prone position the weapon comes straight back and does not rise in any significant way. The sight picture vibrates for obvious reasons but that is all. I also must add that firing one of these MGs from anything but the prone position or supported in other positions is a waste of ammo. Only Arnie Swartzeneggar (?) could possible hold one of these up for any period of time while firing auto to be of any use.
I agree that recoil could come down a bit, in the sense that the gun, literally, should come back down a bit. Just from a gamer's perspective, having to use half of my mousepad just to keep myself on target for every shot is a bit much, and it really exacerbates the AI's insane accuracy.
None of this really matters how it feels or looks in real life as long as you are modeling the accuracy obtained from the result in real life. I recommend going into the editor and look at how far you are shooting and the accuracy you are obtaining. You might be surprised that it is pretty realistic.
I fired a real gun, and yes, the recoil is there. Nothing wrong with the recoil in game
The recoil itself isn't the problem, it's the fact that after firing, you apparently hold the gun up in the air. Try to replicate that in real life and you'll notice how unnatural it is. When you fire a gun, the weight of the gun as well as your muscle memory naturally brings it back down. Not perfectly, but definitely down.
What is happening in game is actually pretty strange and hard to do in real life. I could see this MAYBE happening with a pistol, since the gun weighs much less and is much shorter, but with a battle rifle fired from the shoulder? No way.