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[Gunplay Feedback] Missing immersive gunplay features from alpha DayZ
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Description

As DayZ is seeing a gunplay overhaul with the next update, I would like to offer some feedback on changes that should be carried forward from alpha DayZ to make it more refined, methodical, and simulator-like. There's a sense that the current gunplay is too floaty and encourages run-and-gun behavior and instead needs to feel more heavy and impactful to slow down the combat like it was in Alpha DayZ.

  1. Weapon weight and inertia. I think Alpha DayZ handled this much better as swinging weapons around still felt fluid/pinpoint yet maintained a sense of inertia and weight due to slight barrel lag. The severity of this lag being amplified by barrel length and firearm weight would be nice. Current DayZ's version of this can feel a bit janky.


[ADDITION] Here's how current DayZ handles it and my gripes annotated in the video. Do pay attention to the stance, as the artifacts get worse when crouched

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  1. ADS Bounce and ADS movement slowdown. While the bounce is a little overdone in Alpha DayZ, it is far too toned down in current DayZ and ADS strafing is too fast. Especially with 8x+ optics like the hunting scope, strafing should be heavily punished by forcing you to bring your eye away from the scope and/or walk while aimed in as you'd "injure your eye with [an optic] close to it - Jan Pražák (BI)", let alone that optic having 8X+ Zoom!

Striking a middle-ground between current DayZ's implementation, ArmA 2's implementation, and Alpha DayZ's implementation of this would be nice to slow down gunfights and mitigate A+D strafing that is reminiscent of arcade shooters and is far too prevalent in current DayZ.

(See this 1min clip from the ArmA 2 Dev Diary for ArmA 2's implementation). This may require bringing back head bob which would be nice as I miss it a lot!

[ADDITION] Here's how current DayZ handles it and my gripes annotated in the video

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  1. Lean spam mitigation. Lean spam was not an issue in alpha DayZ and ARMA 2 due to the slowdown of player speed when leaning (a forced walk). This could pose fluidity concerns but is likely a worthwhile tradeoff to maintain immersion and the integrity of authentic gunfights that DayZ was previously known for due to its mil-sim roots. Another solution could be lean stamina, similar to crouch stamina in Counter-Strike 2. See this Reddit post for community complaints


[ADDITION] Here's how current DayZ handles it and my gripes annotated in the video

Additionally, the magnitude of the lean angle was a touch lower in alpha DayZ and therefore felt more natural and fluid. Currently, your character leans too far left and right (especially left!) and it feels jarring. What Alpha DayZ did to combat this was it reduced the lean angle magnitude while moving (as you can see in this video clip). It made a huge difference in terms of how it looks and would probably reduce lean spam while strafing.
[ADDITION] This is an important new video showing the differences between current DayZ and Alpha lean angle magnitudes that weren't quite illustrated in the previous revision of this ticket

_A solution could be to clamp at one of the earlier poses for the motion-capture lean frames_
Related: T167254
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  1. Increased Recoil impact. Even with small firearms like a P1 Pistol, there's a visible kick into the camera that can be seen. It enhances the visceral nature of gun combat and enhances its authenticity to tip it more towards feeling like a mil-sim rather than an arcadey game.

In current DayZ, recoil only becomes apparent when you full-auto. When you single-fire, it barely kicks (e.g. In current DayZ, the Mosin's recoil is extremely diminished compared to how it was in the Alpha).
[ADDITION] Deleted old video, as I find this annotated comparison does a better job

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  1. IK Issues when you point the gun extremely high or extremely low (especially while leaning). The IK breaks down in current DayZ when you aim a gun at these extreme angles. Alpha DayZ was not optimal as it constrained the aiming angle of the weapon, but neither is current DayZ where the hands end up no longer physically touching the gun.


[ADDITION] This may have been unclear as to what issues arise in current DayZ, so here's the annotated video illustrating that

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  1. Return of 0.57 crosshair (instead of the huge, thin T-shaped crosshair we have right now, which frankly looks like programmer art). This crosshair will not be insanely accurate like the dynamic crosshair of 0.59 but will still give general direction on where the gun barrel is pointing while still looking aesthetically pleasing.

Other misc. changes fielded from the community

  • Slower weapon raise upon sprint
  • Reduced ADS Speed (particularly with iron sights which can feel instantaneous vs. a red-dot optic)
  • Remove drop-shotting (disallow keeping weapon raised while going prone)
  • Mitigate A+D circle strafing (people find it immersion-breaking and gamey-looking when they see players constantly jiggle-peeking and side-strafing)
  • Force jog upon stairs and similar inclines (Enabling sprinting up stairs just makes PvP too rush-oriented / run-and-gun instead of tactically holding strategic positions)
  • Slight increase in weapon sway upon holding breath
  • Toggle Lean (Video clip from ArmA 2 devlog in case not clear)

Details

Severity
Tweak
Resolution
Open
Reproducibility
N/A
Operating System
Windows 11 x64
Operating System Version
24H2
Category
Gameplay
Steps To Reproduce
  1. Boot up alpha DayZ builds (0.59 down to 0.57 - after 0.60 I believe some changes to the player controller made it feel a little more janky - below 0.57 (I believe?) doesn't have running with your weapon raised which was a huge fluidity win)
  2. Test firearms, leaning, and movement
Additional Information

Many people yearn for the slowed-down, more weighty, milsim-like gunplay of old DayZ and ArmA back into the game. The reason I got into DayZ in the first place was due to ArmA, which meant having a survival game rooted in realistic gun-combat, movement, and simulation feel (e.g. see this ticket from @MikeDocherty https://feedback.bistudio.com/T159810

I think any changes to get there would be very welcomed by many in the community (See: https://x.com/Ceremor/status/1537597884438151173)

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[ADDITION] Videos illustrating misc. changes
Please feel free to ignore these videos if these problems are already clear to the team. I just added them for clarity's sake if it would be helpful
a) Video illustration of my gripes with ADS Speeds and quick Weapon Raising out of sprint

b) Video illustration of my gripes with the fast movement / sprinting up stairs / high inclines

Event Timeline

jamielou.007 renamed this task from [Gunplay Feedback] Missing gunplay features from alpha DayZ to [Gunplay Feedback] Missing immersive gunplay features from alpha DayZ.Mon, Mar 24, 8:27 AM
jamielou.007 updated the task description. (Show Details)
jamielou.007 updated the task description. (Show Details)Mon, Mar 24, 8:56 AM
jamielou.007 updated the task description. (Show Details)Mon, Mar 24, 9:10 AM
Geez changed the task status from New to Feedback.Mon, Mar 24, 11:07 AM

I've recently started playing with sGunplay and love how it has the dynamic crosshair. Hip fire should never be accurate past close encounters.
Its so easy currently to center dot aim I've found this quite enjoyable to slow down and actually aim like the survivor I am and not some 20 year vet ranger.

jamielou.007 edited Steps To Reproduce. (Show Details)
jamielou.007 edited Additional Information. (Show Details)

@Geez Hello Geez, sorry for the ping, but I updated the ticket as I felt I could have been unclear about what my problems exactly were with the Stable/current version of the game. I took the liberty of adding comparison videos to illustrate and annotate those issues much better, so I hope it helps the development team clarify what the discrepancies are between the current version and the alpha version.

In case the team has already looked at the feedback here, could you please notify them to re-take a look at the descriptions and annotated videos tagged in [ADDITION]?

Many thanks,
Jamie

I've recently started playing with sGunplay and love how it has the dynamic crosshair. Hip fire should never be accurate past close encounters.
Its so easy currently to center dot aim I've found this quite enjoyable to slow down and actually aim like the survivor I am and not some 20 year vet ranger.

Yes, I agree. I think Simonvic did an excellent job with his mod and I'm a big fan of his work. Dynamic crosshair is a bit of a touchy subject as it was very overpowered as you could laser people from far away (at least in the vanilla incarnation present in 0.59-0.62). Ideally, I would prefer no crosshair (Escape from Tarkov style) and rely on the bullets following the path of the barrel instead of magically going toward the center. But to accommodate 3PP, I think some sort of crosshair is needed so I'd really like something more aesthetically pleasing like the 0.57 crosshair (but I'd still like for the bullets to follow the barrel path please!).

I've found this quite enjoyable to slow down and actually aim like the survivor I am and not some 20 year vet ranger

I really enjoyed this about alpha DayZ as guns felt more difficult to handle, suggesting that our survivors weren't like you say, experienced veterans. It felt more gritty, tense, and desperate when you'd end up in gunfights as the guns felt heavier, harder to use, and more powerful. Really helped play up the immersion and the satisfaction of winning fights.

I ask for your permission, but I took the liberty of adding these observations, as I believe they would be relevant should there be interest in enhancing the immersion already discussed. I also want to express my agreement with all the previously mentioned points, as they accurately highlight the aspects that currently make the gameplay feel less immersive. The Alpha version of DayZ had a much more immersive PvP experience, where combat felt weighty, methodical, and grounded, reinforcing the survival atmosphere that defined the game.

To further address the lack of immersion in the current version of DayZ, refining the melee combat system would be a crucial improvement. Adjusting the mechanics to make them more fluid and responsive would significantly enhance realism, making close-quarters engagements more immersive and satisfying.

In the Alpha version of DayZ, melee combat featured a more refined physics system, where strikes against infected enemies would interrupt the attack animation upon impact. This added a sense of weight and responsiveness to combat. In the current version, however, melee attacks pass through infected enemies and players without any interruption, making combat feel rigid and unnatural. Additionally, when performing a melee attack, the character's leg posture becomes awkward and artificial, further breaking immersion and fluidity.

A rework of the melee system, focusing on refining attack animations, impact feedback, and character movement, would make close-quarters combat more engaging and realistic. Enhancing these aspects would provide a more immersive and authentic experience for players.