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[Suggestion] Guilt / Paranoia for murder
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PLEASE read all of it before posting a comment! I really appreciate your attention! Also please even if you like it or not, write a comment saying why, since could be helpfull in developing a solution to KoS as also as making an enjoyable feature to every player with your collaboration.


Now, this idea comes to me because there's a problem going on in the game called KoS. WAIT! Before posting anything right now, let me specify why I'm calling this a problem! I think killing on sight could be classified in two types: Good KoS, and Bad Kos... I'll try to explain both of them through some examples.

-Player: I've been looting for hours in this game, gearing myself and finally I'm getting somewhere in this game, I've got a gun and I've survived even though I've found some people that have tried to steal me and even kill me.

*Player spotted in the distance better geared and doesn't seem so friendly*

-He doesn't know I'm here, I could try to talk to him, but I have the chance of getting killed. Maybe I should kill him right now that he doesn't know I'm here. I really don't wanna die, so I wont take any chances...

-Player: Alright, I've geared myself up with everything I can in an empty server, I have my mosin and my large scope... Lets enter a full server, hide on a mountain and shoot EVERYONE I see :D...

Maybe you're trying to get me now. I've been modifying this issue A LOT considering everything you say to me, so that we could develop a feature that could be both interesting and force bad players to get consecuences of killing for no reason AT ALL without spoling good players game.

Some things have been developed to give people a reason for not killing on sight, like objects damage, but in my example, we will see that this will not change anything for someone that has already looted everything they needed to play bad.

Now I may present the Guilt / Paranoia state...


Guilt / Paranoia state:

In real life, people who kill someone or have been part of a war actually suffer mental dissorder like depression Paranoia that could drive this people crazy.

Looking at the issues I found that sometimes you can listen random zombie sounds or can openings when there's no such thing as a zombie or player near to you.

This gives me an idea, and it may be simple to apply as a programmer. When people start to kill, they will enter a "guilt" state that can raise depending on the number of murders. This guilt can be shown during gameplay as random sounds of someone walking, someone opening a can or reloading a gun. Maybe even a random sound of shots (Obviously in an extreme case of constant murdering) that only the player can hear, because of guilt.


Paranoia and guilt would be two different things.


Paranoia wouldn't stay all the time, as it would decay over time actually kind of fast. This is something I wrote on a comment but people aren't reading it. So paranoia would decay, meaning that if you kill someone, you'll only hear things for a short period of time, and it's not frequent, so that it doesn't spoils gameplay alot, just give a scare sometimes.

Guilt also raises when you kill someone, but the difference is that it would decay alot slower compared to paranoia. Guilt alters the quantity of paranoia you have, meaning that if you have high Guilt but paranoia is already empty, if you kill someone else, your paranoia will be alot higher than before.

This guilt state can get lowered when acting as a hero like donating blood or helping someone, maybe reanimating, suministrating epi-pens or morphine, or just not killing someone for a period of time.

Also, if you reach the point of bandit, your guilt will decay much faster because you've become familiar with murdering.



That one is hard,and its actually being discussed right now in the comments. For now there are two options:

1)Nothing should change, since you're still killing someone, ending a life and even though that could be self defense, you would still feel guilty for his death. Also because it's REALLY hard for the game to realize if it was either murder or self defense.

2)Negative Guilt: As we talked before, there are ways to lower your guilt like helping people and cooperating with others, but what happens if you have no guilt and still help and cooperate? Well then you would start developing what I call negative guilt. This means your guilt is lower than 0, and if you reach certain point of negative guilt, you would be actually able to kill someone without gaining any paranoia, or raising your guilt above 0.

This subject is still being discussed, if you like one of those or have another idea to solve this, please say it in the comments.


I don't know, it may be fun and may cause more horror to the game and lower the rates of killing on sight.

Edit: As I remember, the mod had something similar called "humanity" which defined if you were wether a hero or a bandit. My idea is just implementing something that can change gameplay because of humanity

IMPORTANT: In my idea, neither guilt or paranoia could get you killed nor cause your in-game character any harm. Only random sounds will appear and nothing else

The conclusion we ended up having is that we ,ust wait and see how the game develops the sruviving aspects, because for now there's nothing to do in the game after you gear up, leading to bored people to kill everyone. Still, if you think this concept may be good or not, vote, maybe one day the developers will see this and depending on the rates they would think about adding this. I'm not hoping to get this idea in the game just because I like it, but I want everyone to have the chance to choose if qould be something enjoyable or not.


Legacy ID
Additional Information

I'll make a space here to leave the greatest ideas that have been appearing in the comments to show how the mechanics of this feature could work and become enjoyable. Also as to give credit to this people that are helping developing this idea and making it a lot better

Again thanks to all.

•You’re not advised if you enter Guilt / Paranoia state, only with sounds. –arturkulig-
•Effects occur in random periods of time. –arturkulig-
•Paranoia should fade with time. –arturkulig-
•Extreme cases of high Guilt / Paranoia will make the character do noises. (Still not sure, since could become annoying, but if implemented well could be really great) –arturkulig-
•Guilt will decay faster just by being nearby someone for long periods of time, still being kind of slow decay, being with other players and cooperating will help you lower your guilt faster. – DarkDevastooor-
•If you have paranoia, but got to lower your guilt a lot, your paranoia will also decay. Meaning that if you get rid of all your guilt while on paranoia state, then you will also remove all your paranoia instantly. -Aristizabal95-
•Guilt default state should be in negative guilt (maybe, but could not be necessary depending on how well designed are the guilt and paranoia mechanics) -Forester155-
•Paranoia state should start raising if guilt exceeds a limit different than 0 (still being discussed, still would make gameplay a lot better in complex situations). -Forester155-

•If someone gets ambushed by a group of bandits or killers and gets to kill all of them, he will suffer high Paranoia for defending himself, and if he is alone, there's not a lot to do to lower your guilt. -Steinmarder-

Event Timeline

There are a very large number of changes, so older changes are hidden. Show Older Changes

..or just might find this topic and won't start a new discussion when it would be too late to implement something like this.

I totally agree that people choose to kill people "because of that there's nothing you can do after gearing yourself than well using your gear".

This situation might resolve itself with further developement of other areas of the game.

Alright, Jaybopper and Alyngwen_C:
I've read both your comments and get what you say. And I think you're both right.

Before making any conclusions about KoS, we should all remember that this SA is just a little scratch of everything that it's going to be DayZ, and because of that there's nothing you can do after gearing yourself than well using your gear, and the only way to do it is killing other people... So I think we just have to wait and see.

The gun damage seems really good, as also as real and I do hope it gets implemented because is a great solution for this.

"Brute force and ignorance" haha it's sad to hear something like that but I also understand it, it's like forcing people not to killby punishing, and nobody likes that.

I'll post both things right there and leave this topic for further development, who knows maybe someone find a simple way to implement something like this.

Guys in two last comments might be right. Paranoia status might be too much and might be actually too invasive way to deal with bandit.

Or, just like with poor people in capitalism, we can just pretend that there is no problem.

I think it's going to be a bit too much.
Now I understand quite well what you mean, and think it's a pretty cool idea, especially for the "newbies" such as myself who do not have a lot of experience with online games at all. It is quite annoying that there's some fcktard on a roof sniping the shit out of you 5seconds after you spawned. I, too, am not a real fan of this (although I think that in the finished version there'll be more like a tutorial, maybe safe zones(?)) but then again, it is a survival game.
You are, obviously just like me, the kind of person that actually goes for the zombies instead of the other survivors, and I respect that.
But, you also have to admit there is also the "survival of the fittest" and some people need to show that by killing of other people, whether in full war gear or just underpants and handcuffs.

Then again, I think you should also see it like this, eventhough it can be annoying that people keep sniping your ass from some faraway hiding place:

  • If, for example, you let me live and help me out, the next time I see you and you're in trouble I am likely to help you too in some way (killing the zombie attacking you, something like that)
  • If you come across a person that's sniped you for no reason and that person is being attacked, you'll probably be more likely to help the zombie and hit the bastard over the head with a shovel before finishing off the zombie.
  • OR, you're the bigger man and, even though the twit sniped you in the balls 10 minutes ago, you come to his rescue.

It's all about the choices you make. In some way, you'll have to survive. Good or bad, it's what you choose.
If you can get some friends together and defend a house or small town while a horde of zombies is attacking you and the evil sniper is now pissing his undies, what will you do?
A. Fuck him, he shot me in the balls so let him be eaten by zombies.
B. He can come into the town, he is, after all, a human. Not a zombie.
C. You shoot him so he won't feel it when he gets eaten by the zombies.
D. He can come into town if he helps defending it.
E. He can come into town if he lays down his weapons and you handcuff him.


I wholeheartedly disagree with this mechanic being implemented. This absolutely shits all over immersion IMO.

Anything that affects my character and not me disconnects me from my character and makes me painfully aware that I am playing a game. I really hope this is not implemented.

What we should be thinking about is how we can implement negative ramifications for KoS that affect the players, not just their characters.

Straight off the top of my head for example:

  1. Discharging a firearm alerts every zombie in ear-shot of the shot.. more zombies then you want to alert.
  2. Melee weapons made from fragile materials deteriorate the more you bash them off of hard objects like zombies and other players. For example a badly damaged baseball bat that has been sitting in a shed for a long time is likely to break if you keep whacking things with it. Same goes for a shovel.
  3. You can apply this deterioration to the firearms too. The more you fire it the more it deteriorates. Unless you clean it. Maybe one thing leads to another and you don't have time or forget to clean it. Now you need to find a replacement part which means scavenging the world without a gun. You might not be so trigger happy with it from now on... that's if you survive long enough to repair it.

Point here:
I want to have to make a realistic decision about the value of another player's life vs. my own. What you might find is that the harder it gets to survive the more value there is to another person's life. You might even feel a little twinge of guilt for killing a player, knowing that they have fought long and hard to amass such a stockpile of food and water..

KoS is prevalent for a few reasons:

  1. There's fuck all else to do at the moment.
  2. It's easy and has zero negative ramifications.
  3. There is no bigger thrill in the game... scratch that... there is NO OTHER thrill in the game at the moment. Bring in the massive roaming zombie horde that has your party scattering into separate buildings in a blind panic and batting down the hatches. Frantically trying to cover the entrances. "Where's that random guy we were gonna kill?" "Who cares!? Drop that fucking ammo box over here, right here!"

Ok no one is arguing with these but my point is that implementing a "sanity meter" (to describe it quickly) is a 'brute force and ignorance' approach to solving the prevalence of KoS. Let's strive for something a little more elegant that actually makes the game more (not less) immersive.

AvengedJoker Yeah I know that, but if we could lower it a bit, then that's just a hooray for me :)

Steinmarder, about the group of bandits removing their guilt I thought that not as a bad thing but as a good thing, as long as you are trying to cooperate with others would seem fine to me that they could help lower their guilt.

But, with the player that kills everyone... I have nothing to say and you are right about it, I'll post that problem so that everyone sees, maybe someone could find a logical way to solve it, or maybe we could all find that this is just not going to happen

Thanks for saying it

aristizabal95 now you are starting to get it that negative guilt aspect is better and now I think it is a good idea. As far as the people saying that people sit on hills with snipers and killing new spawns that is just cherno and electro it has always been like that it is never gonna change but the guilt thing might help cut it down by like 5%, but trust me people that do that are people that just want to mess around a bit in game so its not gonna do much to stop them.

While I like how much thought and energy you are trying to put into 'bettering' DayZ, I dont believe a system like this can ever fly.

It is just not possible to properly implement something like this in a universal way.

Just think about the group of 'bandits' that moves around together.. they will perform all kinds of 'heroic' deeds on each other too..
Or the other extreme, a player who miraculously manages to kill the entire group that tried to ambush him in self defense..
And and and..

And personaly I dont think that it would be an improvement for the game. Anyone should be free to do whatever they want to do, with no system that tries to lead you into any direction what so ever..

So, a thumbs up from me for the work you put into a well presented feature suggestion.. but also a downvote due to impraticality and because of my opinion that a feature like this has no place in DayZ.

Killing on sight is not a problem when you have reasons, like fear of loosing your stuff, I know that, or even some times for fun! I know it's a game and killing on sight is not a real issue. But this times killing on sight is hiding in a mountain with a mosin, and waiting for people that are trying to play to kill them with no reason at all, no contact, no fear at all, since most of the time those people don't even have a knife and are hundreds of meters away, and that is a problem, because is not allowing everyone to enjoy the game.

Killing on sight is not a problem, it's a feature, DayZ is a survival PVP game.

Arturkulig I would like you to explain me a little more your idea of cool pro killer a little since I'm still not getting what you're trying to tell me haha

Arturkulig I undertand completely your point, and I do feel that despite level and experience on game everyone should feel guilt, but AvengedJoker says something that I think may be more important at this point. There's a point in games where more realism doesn't bring more fun to the game. Now, I've never said heros and bandits will not feel guilt anymore, the idea of having negative guilt will allow you to kill someone in such cases where you get forced to kill without getting "screwed" by paranoia, but that doesn't mean they will be able to kill a lot of people and not feel guilt at all.

This feature should be realistic, but also should be fun for everyone, so we need to understand at what moment this stop being a great thing and becomes annoying.

Haha yeah doesn't matter how much we plan this guilt and paranoia thing, in the end is Dev who decides if he likes it and how to make it work :)

ad. "downside"
Isn't it a downside in real life too? You don't always have to kill. You can run. You can hide. You can negotiate.
Why you people think that killing in defence or killing in act of heroism should not raise a level of guilt?

Sounds like a great idea, and it'll probably freak people out that like to kill the new spawna.

Downside that I see in this idea: What happens when someone starts trying to kill you, you get lucky and kill the other person (while he was the first one shooting at you), would YOU get into guilt mode? Because you killed a man, but he attacked you first... Doesn't seem fair to me.

But, if possible, awesome idea and like the freaking out stuff!!

I cannot agree that this is something to follow.

Heros should "feel their guilt" as real heros won't be so confident with killing other human being.
And don't let yourselves fall into to trap: trained soldiers whatever army they are in, are just well trained murderers, not heros. Even if they are in defence.

However, I see, it is opposite proposition to what I've proposed, that in very high level of guilt you go "cool pro killer" instead of "insane murderer". Maybe they should be random or set in line or ... well these are just a ideas. Devs will know better what to do and what can be implemented :)

AvengedJoker alright now I'm starting to get what you are trying to tell, and I see the problem now, maybe a solution for heroes is giving negative guilt, so that if you are already without any guilt but still helping and doing all this stuff, your guilt will become negative, meaning that in sometime you would be able to kill someone without gaining any guilt at all. Tell me what you think about it. Maybe that could also happen with bandits, and since bandits will not gain as much guilt when killing someone as other players, they would also be able to kill people without getting guilt quite easy.

As I have seen, usually the most hardcore players will already be in either hero or bandit stage, meaning their guilt and paranoia will be a lot less frequent almost none at all.

Also, as I've seen, most hardcore players tend to play with other people, making it a suitable solution what DarkDevastooor said, making your guilt lower faster by just being nearby someone for long periods of time.

Please respond and tell me what you think, if you think they're suitable I'll add this ideas under your name to the additional information, if not well we could still discuss how to make this suitable for everyone.

Edit: After reading this again, I must say that it is better to give negative guilt to everyone, not as I stated there as only to heroes and bandits.

I understood the concept just thought it could be altered for example in the mod if you go the bandit route when you get to bandit level you lose armor bullets do more damage to you if you go the hero route you get a skin with a vest bullets do less damage to you. Something along this line is fine what you said with the random sounds and visions is bad servers have tried it on the mod before but failed hense why you have never heard of them they got annoying and after awhile people stopped playing on it. Stuff the that distracts people will never work because when it come to hardcore DayZ players which is about 60-80% of them sound and awareness is everything not to mention that if you try to go the hero route but are forced to kill a guy because he shoots first then you are screwed and then you get people that want to be hero's getting pissed off and leaving and before you say well how often does that happen more than you think.

DarkDevastooor I like your ideas! The first one i posted as becoming bandit, which is the same like people that have killed so many other people that actually like stop feeling guilt for them!

The second one seems really great, since stayuing with a player is meaning of cooperation and therefore you're helping someone in a way by only staying with them, although should sink guilt slow, I think I'll post this ideas in the additional information

Thanks for your comments! With your help this could be possible and enjoyable!

I think this is an very good idea. But I think i would add some things wich would be make you able to change your guiltsituation. My idea would be:

  1. People who kill very many People will after a certain Point sink their guilt. These People just are like "professionell" murders, who are able to handle th guilt after they killed many times could sink your "guiltrate" by just being next to other Players - to prevent that "better" Players just be with them to sink their rate and then kill them, your Player will get emotions for this Player - as longer you stay to a certain Person, that more guilt will your Player feel by killing this Person.

AvengedJoker I updated the info so that you can understand the whole concept since information was missing. I think people from the mod that are familiar with "humanity" will actually understand this concept perfectly, since it's technically the same but adding something that allows you to understand how much humanity you have while in-game.

Also, I don't know if your humanity only lowers with murdering, but maybe there could be thought other ways to lower your humanity without killing someone, therefore without the paranoia effects.

I do know KoS is also something that is part of dayz, but shouldn't be that frequent in the game, as it is right now both on the SA as in the mod, because this game is more enjoyable trying to interact with others. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to erradicate the KoS but iI'm trying to lower it a little because it spoils everyone's game, and people have to enter empty servers in order to be able to loot wihtout getting mjurdered every five minutes, also making this game just a kind of singleplayer zombie experience.

So I have seen that people don't fully understand the concept as I know it would happen because it's hard to understand and it's a lot harder when the one explaining doesn't speak english haha. I tried to complete the information in the post because I have been developing the idea in the comments and people aren't reading them (and it is comprehensive to not read the comments).

Don't get me wrong sounds like a good idea but KoS and banditing has always been a part of dayz and the are no pvp and no bandit servers out there if you make being a bandit something that cause you character to hear noises and get more intense with more murders you are just gonna make those fans of dayz that have played since it was a mod not wanna play anymore. As far as new players there are many servers that a bambie friendly and actually have people there to help.

"Helping" another player is not something that you can put as a condition to mechanism that will lower paranoia. You can put healing, force feeding, reanimating, bandaging as a condition, but.. I can think of at least few other things you can do to other that would be recognized as helpful by others.
This, if it will be a part of a game, should fade like hunger is appearing. It would be so much easier to understand how this works if it works like something you already know.

As I think of players that go onto 40/40 server and kill ie. 10 freshspawns or.. any other players in 2 hours he should be insane either to do that or after doing so. So these "voices in his head" should be very loud and clear very frequent, almost as a noise
he should be giggling, like a crazy person. He should make noises so people nearby recognize that person that has not so clear mind is around them.. or even talking to him.. Someone that has killed so many people I suppose should be not so easy overlooked.

..and.. person that killed anyone should make *heavy breathing* sounds for a few minutes after killing to emulate one's horror.

Please make a comment saying why you like it or not!

Thanks a lot!

I don't want to make murder in this like like something that will ruin your game, since murder is part of the realism of postapocalyptic scenario, but in this game murdering seems such a simple thing when in real life is not like that, even during such a scenario. My intention is to give a consecuence to murder in the game as also allowing players that decide to take the bandit way to be able to adapt to those consecuences. I understand that right now we call "bandtis" as people that kill for no reason, but the idea of bandits is not that one, those people are new players that believe this game is just as every other shooting game when it's not.

Bandits are people that steal and kidnap other players to earn any purpose (loot or power over a group of persons), not killers that are happytriggers. That's why I believe you should be able to let adaptation of paranoia. Also good players that help other freshspawns and other players should be able to lower their guilt since they are helping other people survive, making them feel better about their purpose on the game.

Not sure if I made myself clear in this huge paragraph, basically I want to say that guilt should be able to be lowered, also because then it would become annoying to anyone knowing that they can't kill anyone else because then they're game would be fool of random sounds ruining their gameplay

:) hope you people think it's a good idea

Better if it can't be lowered/

Yeah I also thought about that! The fact that people won't be sure if sounds came from "their minds" or from someone nearby will make them feel nervous as it should be after such things as killing someone.

Paranoia effects should decay in a period of time, but the "Guilt meter" would still be filled, so that even though you killed someone and the paranoia effect ended, if they kill someone else the effects will get worse!

That's what I've been thinking, off course doesn't have to be like that but I think would be great for the game

I've thought a lot about this.
Your idea is great actually.
What I want to add to this that it definetely should be indicated ONLY by not distorted sounds and no other graphic effects or even status in inventory screen.
Effects could also last for little bit random time, so players cannot tell whether it has ended or not yet.
Therefore the real "Paranoia" effect will be in their minds.

Math added a subscriber: Math.May 8 2016, 4:28 PM
Math added a comment.Jan 17 2014, 10:45 AM

Your idead is very interesting, me too I would like to have something like that in the game =) I hope your subject will be known ;-)

Sorry for any spelling mistakes, I don't really speak english

Interesting idea, im tempted to upvote but i think first, they should get the zombie horde balanced. Then see how that effects the KOS tactics, there needs to be more enforced sneakiness, but that means leveling out the horde numbers and how they detect, because atm detection seems random. But I do agree people shoot first and ask later to much.

Cliodna added a subscriber: Cliodna.May 8 2016, 4:28 PM

Although this idea is respectable I think that we should leave that to the mind of the player and not the programming. It is far more interesting to see how 'real' psychology works in DayZ as opposed to artificial meters.

ReZiiN added a subscriber: ReZiiN.May 8 2016, 4:28 PM

I will not read your entire document because it is in the incorrect place, this is a site for Bug reporting in order to further the development of DayZ SA. Not suggestions. But here is two cents, Psychopaths haven't any Guilt, or Fear thus no Paranoia could exist within them.

I like your idea.

May I add something?

  1. The one who suffers from paranoia etc, could randomly see some one, this would be very stressful for him.
  1. The amount of guild/paranoia could increase based on what weapon you have used to kill someone and what distance.


Using an SKS would increase just a litle your guild.
Using MP4 increase a little more.
Using Mosin increase a lot more. But, firing a Mosing and killing someone just a few meters away, would increase your guild just as using the SKS because in most cases it would be self defense.

The most guilty action would be killing someone from hundreds of meters away.

And negative guilt is not good, someone could preapare himself for starting to kill.

wft... i wrote a long text with examples and session token is expired.

But i try it again and i think some ideas are lost :S

So i think this is an interesting idea but not good for the gameplay. The reason is that the gameplay comes from the palyer and can't controlled by the game. If the players would be shit they are and the sounds will not chance it (btw: we have the sound right now by a bug and they kill as well).

The game should check so many situations what happend what is not possible to distinguish.

For example:
I helped three guys. They run and zombies run behind them. So i take my baseballbat and start to kill the zomies. As they see it they try it too and we killed the zombies. (By killing zombies i woulnd't get "hero-points" because murder kills ppl then kills zombies and have no guilt.)
Now all zombies are death and we run around and search. As i was alone with one guy he killed me with no reason. So if the three guys help each other they get "hero-points" and can kill nice ppl like me.
If i kill them i'm guilty by defence me?

Most kills come if you try to leave an area and another one comes around the corner. Both player see each player has weapons and you are also frightened. How is faster is the question here?! If you say friendly you are death.
Good defender (if you kills only by defendings yourself) will be punished.

Also if someone comes to get good loots and kills you. How often he kills people? Only at the start aggressive.
I think each time the wrong player will be punished by this system because its impossible to say how is realy guilty.

sabre05 added a subscriber: sabre05.May 8 2016, 4:28 PM

This is downright stupid. In a survival of the fittest scenario you wouldn't have a mental breakdown because you killed someone so you could live. 10/10 bad idea.

There is no way for the game to know what I am thinking when I kill someone. How does the game know if I killed in self defense or just for fun? I would be very upset if I were given a bad status effect because I had to kill a bandit. Bandits and Heros make this game fun. Deal with it.

This maybe a good idea which is coming from experience when a certain event that triggered the conflict or event happens a quick flashback should happen causing the player to get either annoyed (if they are kids just playing a videogame) or change their view on the killing aspect for being asinine. example of trigger the cocking of a rifle has been noted before as a trigger and caused psychological hallucinations (flashbacks). Another thing could be added PTSD like if you survive a bandit torture or capture or knock out; maybe your character can have a trigger that is similar to people like me (when I see that someone has Zip tie restraints and look like they are going to use them I will what is referred to as red out which make me violent and dangerous for about an hour or until I have been neutralized with a sedative or restrained by several people long enough to calm me down) this type of snap or reaction would serve useful if bandits had left you for dead or head you captive for a while and let you go; so that the next time you can take more damage from a bandit and react faster and with greater strength than them

Great idea! Would be nice to walk in a forest in the middle of night and then suddenly hear a scary noise, which would make you even more paranoid.

I don't think the character should feel guilt. If anything the moral dilemma should affect the player (who is basically the characters mind) instead.

If some players don't feel guilt - let them play their psychos. The game needs villains as well.

Solo added a subscriber: Solo.May 8 2016, 4:28 PM
Solo added a comment.Jun 18 2014, 12:24 PM

So, aristizabal95

You actually want to give up your gathered gear to someone that you see on the beach without any weapon (bambi) by talking to them and then get stomped once in the face and lose all you got, because you get knocked unconcious after one hit?
(it's not killing so no guilt there)

This system can not be done in my opinion, sure I agree with you on those snipers well hidden on a mountain range somewhere with a Mosin shooting bambi's for no reason at all, but, this IS part of life as well in a post apocalyptic environment, shoot newcomers as they can become a valid threat to your established base, or not shoot them and then when encountered later in the game make them strip all they have in order for you to feel 'safe' isn't going to happen so you might just shoot him instantly to prevent a later threat.

Also make note that the player shot knows where he got shot from mostly so the sniper has to move on, he can not stay on that mountain top forever.

I like your idea, I think Project Zomboid had this as well, which makes it more realistic since dayz is being a simulation and all. we need that balance of the guilt and paranoia for exactly the situations you explained.

I love it. and I hope they make this happen.
Solo added a comment.Jun 23 2014, 10:08 AM

What about players who feel no remorse or guilt at all? real life or not, punish them on something they feel comfort with ?

Put this on game please! i hate that guys, in a real zombie invasion, the people wont kill without a reason because the real enemy is the zombie.

ppl kill other players.. in real or in a movie by this apocalypse.
Look the Movies "the walking death" or look why countries fight right now.
If you have a area underr your control to survive, you will do all to keep this area. This is normal.
Is this scenario is real and i have also an area under my control with food and walter and you came with a gun in this area to "steal" my food i would kill you too. No way. Life with it.

Please let this out of the game. Its not realistic that all humans are friendly.

very nice idea, i'd like to see something like that. i could imagine some these guilt-symptoms not to happen right away, but a few minutes after the last shot fired, because of being pumped with adrenaline and stuff

Great idea! nice

FENS added a subscriber: FENS.May 8 2016, 4:28 PM
FENS added a comment.Aug 20 2014, 1:41 PM

In paper this looks, well, i am not going to say i am looking for this, but, doesn't look bad at all.
But man, think a bit, How the f* would you implement this in the game, and working well? How the f* will the game know which is a self defense kill and when it is a bandit kill? come on man, nice imagination, but think a bit man.

Lets try to contribute on making the game work right, and then, expose your imaginations. I don't know how much time you have played this engine from bohemia, but all i can tell you is that there is a ton of things before this, and i don't really get how do you want this to work inside the script. The idea is there, now explain yourself how the game will differ from a hero/bandit when you see an idi*t on the berezino rooftop from 600m.

I think that your idea is a good one, but I don't think that it could be applied to the game as it was intended.
Simple reason is you comment about self defence and about Bandits, and I quote: "Also, if you reach the point of bandit, your guilt will decay much faster because you've become familiar with murdering."
Because of that, good players will have to suffer through paranoia and gulit, while those $hardcore bandits$ would just search the area for someone else to pray on (I'm reffering to the random noises).

But I really believe that
Jaybopper has a better idea and that his idea should be considered in the future updates.

This is a FANTASTIC IDEA but Survive the Nights already added this and will be out in feb 2015 for alpha and is already LIGHTYEARS ahead of DayZSA. It even surpasted Arma DAYZMOD in my opinion.

If any sounds or visions were implemented that were purely "imaginary" to the player's character, then they should be illness related. As in, "I found some LSD. Yay, colours."

Playing random stuff (footsteps, zombies, animals, you name it) does resemble paranoia quite well, up to the point even, where the player has his character commit suicide to get rid of these sounds, because the game has become unplayable, just as life would become unbearable.
But: DayZ is a big sandbox. *Everything* is defined by the player, including what's right and wrong. If you want to get rid of KOS, you need to find a way to make people *want* to do something *else*, not punish them for what they do.

If you try to put some moral spin onto gameplay like this, then the logical next step after paranoia for murder would be increased health after helping somebody. Because you simply know it was the right thing to do.

I do think that making zombies both a more demanding and rewarding prey will take some pressure off players.

Llew added a subscriber: Llew.May 8 2016, 4:28 PM
Llew added a comment.Nov 15 2014, 9:30 PM

KOS is not a problem and I don't think that you have to feel guilty for shooting down someone for his gear, because you are hungry or just because letting this guy alive represent a threat. It doesn't fit the current Dayz, you are a survivor, your family is probably dead by now, you have other things to think off after shooting someone other than "oh my god I am so mean :(, I should go to the church this sunday".

V1ruS added a subscriber: V1ruS.May 8 2016, 4:28 PM
V1ruS added a comment.Nov 16 2014, 5:25 PM



Anything that tampers with the core tenet of DayZ - unpredictability and amorality - should be kept far, far away from the game. Fortunately, Rocket himself is firmly against such ideas and has said so numerous times.

EDIT: I may have come across as harsh here, but the fact is that the very core of what makes DayZ Standalone a harrowing, intense experience is its state as an "anti-game". At no point are you ever told or driven towards any specific choices or play styles, and it is up to the player to act in any way he or she sees fit.

I was afraid that this was going to happen. DayZ must not lose the very thing that sets it apart. Yes, the game can be very frustrating and unfair, but that is why it is special.

I understand that KoS behavior is problematic in a game about human interaction. Getting cheap-shotted isn't fun or intriguing. It doesn't add anything to the experience.

I also understand that DayZ is intended to be as pure a sandbox as possible, and artificially deterring any player behavior is heresy. We must be allowed to make our own choices.

HOWEVER. There is merit to consequence. As foolish as it sounds to suggest it of a naturally selected species, we are not 'meant' to kill each other. In fact, very few people in combat situations seem willing to fire on exposed enemies (Only 15-20%) unless given the operant conditioning of modern military. The animalistic midsection of the brain contains a powerful resistance to killing our own kind, a survival mechanism found in many other animals that keeps them from killing themselves off in competition for mates and food. Military conditioning overrides this midbrain processing and allows us to attack other humans without restraint. Survivors in DayZ are not military, however. They do not have this conditioning, and the stress of going against our instinctual programming can permanantly affect people emotionally, psychologically, and even physiologically.

We are not war machines in Chernarus, at least not at first. We are regular people whose actions REQUIRE consequences to make them meaningful. Everyone has a scary run-in with other people eventually, regardless of good or bad, and these events are not insignificant. Killing another person changes how your brain works. You don't need to paste a red letter on the murderhobo, but he SHOULD know what he's done in a real way.

These days I played a game called "This War of Mine", I advise everyone to check out! Man, this game is exactly what a survivor must feel when you kill a person, from a banal form even for survival. Should really think about it, because the very hack and gamer who lives chasing the other, is not in the comics (obviously the game in alpha, there is not much to do, I understand)

yakov added a subscriber: yakov.May 8 2016, 4:28 PM

I liked the idea. would be a breakthrough for survival have some punishment for those who kill people indiscriminately.

I like this idea, but a player shouldn't have negative guilt. Doing heroic deeds should not prevent someone who has just taken a life from feeling guilty. It should, however, increase the rate at which paranoia and guilt decay.

While I agree the concept of paranoia/guilt as described by OP is great, it isn't somthing I wanna see in DayZ. It's a good idea for a singleplayer game like State of Decay.

In DayZ, it's not gonna stop KOS. I know I would still KOS, just to prevent my own potential death when meeting other armed players.

If you don't want to KOS or being KOSed, there are currently 2 solutions.

  1. Play on PVE servers. There are quite a few around already. Not a 100% KOS-free zone (depends on the admin activity), but most players that frequent these servers are friendly.
  1. Stop being careless. Most players I killed didn't pay attention to their surroundings. Most of the time I was killed, I didn't pay attention either (or lost a fight that I started myself).

Example: The other day on an almost empty server, I killed a guy called Gerald.
I was watching him looting the military buildings at NWAF, running from building to building, never looking around. He felt a bit too safe while looting all the good stuff that I wanted, so I shot him in the back in the moment he had no cover at all. His reaction was running in circles like a headless chicken, screaming "oh no please" in direct chat, finally dropping dead. And logging off.
Well, the only other player on the server could have been nearby too, so I spent a few minutes in the bushes, observing the situation until I felt it was safe. Now Gerald's loot is all mine, pretty neat stuff he got, much better than what I could gather on the way to NWAF. I know I probably ruined his day but it was his own fault and I hope he learned his lesson. I've been there too.

Never let your guard down, even if there's only one other player on the server. People will KOS and nothing's gonna stop them, except PVE rules and an active admin.

You have to adapt to the situation, not vice versa. So please, no humanity system or guilt system or similar things in vanilla DayZ. Keep this idea for a mod.

EDIT: well that example above wasn't exactly about KOS, but I hope you get the idea. Similar situations happen all the time and the one who spots the other first, usally wins.

Also I agree with Jaybopper who said that currently the only thrill in the game is killing other players, as zombies aren't really a threat due to their low numbers. This will hopefully change soon, then it's gonna be a different game.

And maybe my character is a cold blooded murderer?
You can't force players to listen stupid glitchy sounds just because they killed someone. It is unreal to divide which KoS was good and which was bad. So... no.

If you add this feature, make sure to add Religion too.

Depending if the character is religious or not, ( the same that happens with blood types ) you could get an item related to that religion ( a cross for example ), in order to lower your guilt for killing.

alodnal added a subscriber: alodnal.May 8 2016, 4:28 PM

I believe it is too early to start even thinking about these kinds of features as we won't know how actually working zombies (and a lot of them), little to no food and weapons available etc. will affect player interaction in the future. I'm quite certain that when this game is done, there is less reason to KoS.

Maybe they could make it so it would take you longer to calm down so you can aim?
I don't like the idea. You want to implement this whole system to 'make it look' like your character cares but in reality it will annoy the player.

I know that there is a problem, in reality if you saw a crazy psycho in a town, you wouldn't enter that town would you? Getting shot as a newspawn isn't that bad and as soon as you have stuff you will watch your step alot more.

I personally think guilt isn't something you can measure, helping some people out vs killing people is not really adding up for me.

I say no to trying to inject morality to any open world game like DayZ.

It was attempted in the mod and it was a piece of shit system. Someone opens fire at you and misses. You kill them. You lose morality points.

Not to mention that the paranoia irl comes from two things:

  1. You don't want to go to prison.
  2. You don't want to die yourself.

If you're able to kill with impunity, then trust me, you won't be pulling your hairs out because of it. You /might/ feel bad about it, but that's about it.