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No consequence to being shot
Reviewed, WishlistPublic

Description

if you shoot an AI and the bullet fails to kill him, he will instantly fire back (if he knows where you are) and there are no consequences to follow The AI will just turn around and fire back like nothing ever happened.

This can be really annoying in close quarter combat (e.g. you find an enemy around a corner and fire a shot that hits his leg. He will fire back instantly.)

If someone happened to be shot in real life i would imagine that shooting the enemy wouldn't be their top priority as the wound would not only be painful and distracting but also life threatening.

Details

Legacy ID
3520174563
Severity
None
Resolution
Open
Reproducibility
N/A
Category
Feature Request

Event Timeline

Scorpion edited Steps To Reproduce. (Show Details)May 27 2013, 4:41 PM
Scorpion edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
Scorpion set Category to Feature Request.
Scorpion set Reproducibility to N/A.
Scorpion set Severity to None.
Scorpion set Resolution to Open.
Scorpion set Legacy ID to 3520174563.May 7 2016, 2:18 PM

I think you would react by training before conciously making any decisions. Under adrenaline I doubt you´d even notice at the first moment that you´ve been shot unless it knocks you over completely, and in a well trained soldier, muscle memory would make sure that he´d at least try to point, shoot and move before finding out that he´s been hit (and then succumbing to shock.)

But I agree, the damage modelling, along with the armour system is sub par right now, considering the scale this game is working on.

i see your point but the AI should at least cut down on the accuracy for a small amount of time otherwise it is just frustrating and annoying

I might just add that this issue is most common when using a pistol (because of the shorter range needed to become lethal)

InstaGoat even if you had training and adrenaline, the kinetic energy from the bullet would be more than enough to do physical trauma to a person. Consider the size of a 5.56×45mm Nato round. Being shot at close range is not like getting punched by a fist. The bullet will penetrate your skin, go through your entire body, muscle, tissue, bone, nerves, etc.

No matter how much adrenaline you have, you will not behave as if nothing happened. Just go on youtube and watch some helmet cam videos of soldiers who have been struck by a bullet while in combat. All of them, upon after being hit, are unable to even put their rifles back into a firing position and fire any rounds back to the enemy.

Most people hit by such a large caliber will go into shock immediately, it is near impossible to make any good judgement when in shock. The pain is the only thing they feel. You have a open wound and are bleeding!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLHU-_OhT8g#t=1m55s

Notice that the soldier even drops his weapon upon being hit.

And if your lucky, you will get the exit wound I described in the above paragraph, the real mess is if the round did not completely exit. Then you have to worry about fragmenting and tumbling, in simple terms, the more a round tumbles inside of you, the more damage your body will take, and if pieces of the round fragment. The doc is gonna have to look for those tiny pieces of metal and get them out of your body to prevent infection!

Getting shot is a very nasty thing! Most people do not realize how bad it is because they have been conditioned by videogames!

007.SirBond

thanks for the link. it explains a lot about a being hit by a bullet and i also agree that lots of people don't know how bad being shot is.

well you have really supported this issue and i thank you for you help :)

@007.SirBond: If you're going to post a video to prove your case, at least make sure it proves you case. He was hit 4 times, and neither of the bullets penetrated his armor, and the reason he dropped his weapon was because a bullet hit it and knocked it from his hands: "A round struck the tube by my hand of the 203 grenade launcher which knocked it out of my hands.".

Besides, there's a huge difference between being shot from up close and from far of. If someone shoots you in the leg up close, you're sure as hell gonna prioritize returning fire higher than your leg.

And most of the infantry in ARMA 3 are armored. From the same video you posted you hear him get hit multiple times and he just continues on with an "Argh!".

MulleDK19

No matter where you are shot it will hurt and you will not function properly. even being hit in armor will cause some disorientation and you sure as hell won't be able to fire back accurately because not only do you risk being hit again but you (Like I said) will not be able to function properly.

I saw a video once where a soldier got hit in the leg (close range) and he fell over (sort of) yelling for help, he didn't fire back. So this is still a valid problem and i hope you could agree rather than find a reason to disagree with someone who posts a video that clearly shows the basic idea of what being shot is like.

@Scorpion: I've gotten my leg pierced by a sharp object causing a 2 cm in diameter hole, and I didn't even notice the first few minutes, because other matters were more important. So if I can keep focus from that, a soldier getting hit on his ARMOR sure as hell can too.

MulleDK19

just because you said that i did some research to prove my point and will lets say we both have our correct points however we are both to an extent wrong. the site featured a list of people who had been shot and what they said. Some say that they didn't feel anything at first and others say that it burned like hell and i think two people said that the didn't feel pain but were immobile however all said that they were in shock and in most cases unable to move.

not to say that i don't believe you but being pierced by a sharp object and being shot by a bullet are two very different things as a bullet has the power and energy to break bones and cause nerve problems etc.

all i am saying is that if you are shot there is a good chance that you will not be able to function properly, your head is in a different place (because of shock) so please do not see this as an argument because it isn't, it is all fact, there is only one right and many wrong. you are right in some cases but if you are shot there is a likely chance that you will notice and your body and mind will adjust accordingly.

@MulleDK19

Yes in the youtube video I used as a example, he was struck 4 times in total, however it does not change the fact that the first round that struck him still made him drop the weapon. He did try and pick his weapon back up, but there was still a time frame of his reaction to being hit that made him unable to return fire.

In response to your comment about being piecred. I am assuming the wound was not very deep. The 2cm diameter was only the surface. The deeper the penetration, the more functions are damaged, this is the main reason why knives after a certain length are not allowed to be carried in public because people getting stabbed with long blades is very difficult to recover from. Now a large caliber round from a military grade weapon is worst.

007.SirBond

Again supporting the issue and for that I thank you. :)

I think if you get shot you should at least fall to the ground. Once you get killed (or waiting to be revived the weapon drops but you need to pick it back up after you're revived.)

jakeryan760

nice idea but i think that is just a bit too dramatic. there is a good chance that you will be able to move (however slowly that might be) to get to cover but you never know i guess we will find out :)

Yeah, maybe just if you get hit in the legs while running or moving. I could see being able to get to cover after gettin hit in the chest with armor.

paravbs added a subscriber: paravbs.May 7 2016, 2:18 PM

@ 007.Sirbond: Quite often, people who are shot in combat don't even realize they've been shot. Sometimes, men are shot multiple times and they simply keep on fighting. Adrenaline, drugs and the will to survive can and do mitigate the effects of trauma on the human body to an extent. This is clearly reflected in anecdotal evidence from both Afghanistan and Iraq, where insurgent fighters are often shot repeatedly before they finally drop. While the gunshot wounds received may indeed be fatal, they often aren't instantly incapacitating.

To illustrate this point: I can think of a shooting that took place in Louisiana, where a police officer shot a suspect ELEVEN times at point-blank range with a .357 magnum, including once with the muzzle pressed directly against the top of the suspect's head. This shot blew a golf ball-sized hole in the man's head. Surely a fatal wound, you would think, wouldn't you? Not quite. The suspect's response to being shot in the head was to throw the officer across the room and continue to fight. He continued to fight until he bled to death, despite being shot multiple times in the chest and head with a high-caliber, powerful round.

Ok so I've read through everyone's comments here and iv decided to lay this to rest. I am an E-5 Army Combat Medic. Ive seen A LOT of people get shot and I can say that everyone handles it a little different. BUT if your hit and your trained and your adrenaline is going, 99% I see the person get hit, wince at the pain, and instantly get their weapon up and start putting rounds out. Maybe not accurately and even without knowing where the person is but they still fire off as fast as possible. The goal is to hopefully get whoever it is that hit you or at least make them get their head down. I have seen guys take rounds that pass right through their chest or stomach and you'll see them get knocked down and, if they are still awake and alert when they hit the ground, they will grab their weapon and begin popping rounds off. Its all training and reaction. the body doesn't process pain as fast as it will process a desire to stay alive. I hope this puts this discussion to rest and feel free to ask any questions pertaining to this subject.

@paravbs

I am not talking about being completed incapacitated after being shot. I am pointing out that being shot will still affect a person regardless how much adrenaline, drugs and state of mind they are in. Of course you would realize you have been shot, but you may choose to ignore the pain temporary because you have a more important issue, survival.

The force of the round should still at least deviate your aim or judgement, as the army medic stated, wounded soldiers do not have good accuracy after being shot. And he specifically mentioned that soldiers being shot wince. That means, when being shot, you are probably stunned for a brief second or two, that causes you unable to aim or fire. In game as of right now, when a enemy soldier gets hit, his performance as a soldier is the same as if he was not hit.

And your entertaining story may not be fact. Perhaps the cop stated the events occured in this order because he shot the suspect multiple times in rage and feared punishment from the department for not firing his weapon with professionalism. And during a grapple with someone close and a weapon goes off, its near impossible to realize where the shots are landing and in what order.

Linkin added a subscriber: Linkin.May 7 2016, 2:18 PM

I agree with the OP.

The following is a video of a man shooting himself in the leg by accident (not graphic, but still probably not something you want to watch at work!)

Note: It's a .45 ACP calibre handgun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEuBXWujeYQ

Dude worse video ever to show lol.

What's wrong with it? The first 5-10 seconds show someone being shot and their immediate reaction. That should be enough to change game mechanics based on reality.

@007.SirBond

Lets not twist my words too far. SOMETIMES they don't have good accuracy(mainly in the case of ANA soldiers Ive treated and they shoot like shit anyway.). Most US Soldiers that have been trained, get hit and immediately raise the weapon to their shoulder and pop off a solid grouping. MOSTLY without knowing where the round came from, unless your buddy indicates where it fired from. And by wince i mean maybe a little hop or a gasp. Unless you take a round the chest, abdomen, pelvis, head or face. That will usually knock you on your ass and put you out of the fight for a moment if it doesn't kill your or cause you to loose consciousness. Getting shot in the leg or arm is not that bad honestly. I took one to the top of my thigh when i was an E-2 on my first deployment. Yes i went down on one knee very quickly, and yes it hurt severely but it wasn't enough to throw my aim off or force me out of the fight. I was lucky and saw my shooter before he hit me, I just wasn't quick enough to get away from his aim. So in my case I dropped to a knee but my weapon never came off my shoulder and my rounds were still on point and well grouped when I fired. Now once I had fired off and moved to cover I did stop what I was doing to take care of myself and get another Doc to help me but my first process was to save my ass and my buddies before the shooter got anyone else. Its all mental. Now i could agree with making a consequence for getting hit in the abdomen,chest, pelvis and other regions, if you were hit and not killed on round impact. I agree that if we wanted to head in the ultra-realism direction (which is what i hope Arma 3 is moving towards)that maybe at least slowing movement or not letting you get to your feet (forcing you to low or high crawl to a medic) would be fair for both player and AI.

Because that guy shot him self. He's an idiot. He doesn't have any adrenaline already pumping through his body and hes not in a life or death situation with another person trying to kill him.

@Linkin

Actually your video is really good to argue the other way. this is a nearly untrained man (Im assuming cause he shot himself like an idiot.). he is out of shape, untrained, and waving a weapon around like a fool BUT he doesn't go to the ground screaming or yelling. His knee bends(doesn't buckle just bends), grabs the wound and walks to the camera, still talking coherently. He isn't truly incapacitated or hindered in his ability to fire that weapon in any way. If his life depended on it and his adrenaline was flowing he would probably have hardly noticed that.

Interesting topic

It may be realistic that the AI gets "stunned" when shot. But the thing is that the the player dosent get stunned when shot. So should players get stunned aswell?

I say this because the AI in arma are more or less bots, meaning that they are designed to play by the same rules as the player

@COMBATMED101

My intention is not to twist your words, but I want to ask you, if you took a round from a enemy which was at least 300 meters away. You would not be able to immediately put rounds right back at the original shooter. I believe there would be a few seconds at least before you could fire some rounds back.

As of right now in game, if the enemy gets shot at 300 meters, he acts as if nothing happened to him and hits you back immediately. This is not realistic at all. Even worst, when I shoot a enemy in the back, he just turns around and reacts as if I just made a noise and alerted him.

And yes, I believe simulating being knocked down from bullets, shrapnel, or debris and getting back up to continue fight would make Arma 3 very immersive and realistic.

I absolutely loved how you could go unconscious in ACE. But if the dev's don't want to add that in, I want to see bullets at least slowing targets who have been hit. To be able to continue running at full sprint after taking a hot round is ridiculous.

@007.SirBond

Well that has sort of been my point all along. That we are trained to almost entirely eliminate delays or pauses in our fire in the event we are hit. That from the day you begin CLS in BCT your trained to put rounds back at whoever hit you as fast as possible. Im talking a two second delay, if that.

You will see dudes get hit and not even notice or react. They just snap around and start putting rounds on target. and if it came from the front they may not even change targets, they may just continue popping off like nothing happened until they can call for a medic.

And its not just bullet wounds. Iv seen IED and RPG wounds where a man has lost his entire limb or has shrapnel all in his body and he will just get up or roll right back over and keep fighting as much as they are able. So to answer your question, in all reality its is not just likley but highly probable that a soldier will take a serious wounds but keep going out of sheer will to survive, to save his friends, and to finish the mission.

I agree that you should be slowed or stumbled when you take a round on the move. because getting hit on the move WILL stumble you, no doubt. iv yet to see some one run straight through a bullet impact.

look guys i can imagine that if you get shot in the leg, arm or shoulder then yes I bet there is a chance that you will be able to fire back (PROVIDED that the bullet has not incapacitated the arm they shoot with) however if you are shot in the back, chest, gut, pelvis, neck or even head the chances are that you will NOT be able to react 100% perfectly. because if you get shot it will (no doubt about it) disturb the person it has hit, it will damage them so that they are injured (what a bullet is designed to do) and therefore it will change the way the react.

right now in arma3 once the AI have been shot, they instantly fire back regardless of where they were just hit.

E.g. i was in a fire fight with an AI and we both had pistols shooting back and forth but when ever he got hit he got his aim on me in an instant. even the player as to realign his gun after being shot along with this disorientation caused by the sudden screen movement and the red flashing.

i believe that there should be consequences for both the player and the AI when shot in a not instantly lethal spot. I do not think that the game will go into such detail as to add every bone breakable but a small recovery time at the very least because right now suppressive fire and non-lethal shots normally do not help and often end with you dead.

like in that video linked by 007 .SirBond the man lays down (even know he was hit in the armor) and starts yelling "I'm hit!"

don't tell me that a 7.62mm/ 5.54mm hole in your leg, arm or abdomen will not shock or incapacitate you because if you did i would find it hard to believe.

Just to add a two second delay is the difference between life or death and it is all i am try to ask because right now you can take cover behind a road barrier so that only your head shows but as soon as you fire upon the enemy (say 100m away) and hit them in the leg, arm or any non-lethal spot he will almost instantly pop an extremely accurate shot off and hit you. the player is dead in a fight that he should have had the upper hand in, hence the reason i reported this issue.

@COMBATMED101

I think there is a issue between wishful reasoning and reality. Fact, is human beings are not machines, we may train to become machine, but we are only human. At least you acknowledge that when being hit, a soldier does have a slight instant where his performance is handicapped upon being hit.

The human mind is capable of amazing things when in a survival state. But, this is not the norm for every single person, why should it be the norm in a videogame just because a few individuals can ignore pain and continue?

The enemy in this game returns fire with 100 percent accuracy after being hit, this does not seem realistic. I doubt in real, when you hit someone mid to far range in the back, u would not expect them to turn around instantly and pop u in the head.

i dont think getting shot is as big a deal as people think. combatmed101 has actually been shot so this topic should be resolved based on his input above.

voted down.

@Scorpion i have broken my leg and tried to get up and attack the driver of the other car whos fault it was with medics holding me down. it sounds strange but the body just says "fuck this. this is too much pain. im just going to bypass the whole thing." and u feel no pain.

@sirbond stop arguing with a guy who has seen it many times when you havent seen it ever.

It's not just a psychological thing. It's not just the mind that says "Shit, I need to survive, so I won't feel pain". The body PHYSICALLY blocks the pain signals from reaching the brain.

Don't remember exactly what's happening, but it's covering something with something to block the signals.

@DisasterMaster, you don't know anything and having your aim thrown off as opposed to being immobile is a entire different story.
He even states, being shot in the chest, abdomen, pelvis, head or face will knock someone down, he mentioned when he got him in the thigh, he fell on his knee.

This is proof that he was immobile for a slight period upon being hit. I believed he was able to put a solid grouping at his target because he was close by, regardless of being hit, because his weapon was still shouldered and he was still aiming. HOWEVER, I do not believe if the round came from a really far distance, he would be able to fire a accurate grouping at whoever hit him. There is no way in hell, you can fire a good grouping at a very far target, when you are in a uncomfortable stance, and being hit from a hot round.

And I have seen someone getting shot right away, they did not behave as if nothing happened. As me and him have stated, it is different for everyone.

*EDIT by Fireball: Removed caps insults.*

@007.sirbond ok ONCE AGAIN im coming to make sure my words are clear. EVERY SOLDIER. EVERY SINGLE SOLDIER is TRAINED TO MINIMIZE DELAYS AND AIM SKEW WHEN HIT. EVERY SINGLE SOLDIER. ESPECIALLY Special Operations soldiers whom the entire Alpha revolves around currently. Now lets clear up MY story cause yo clearly have it all wrong

A) i went to a knee because thats a stable firing point. Not because it forced me too. The round didnt even break my femur and it was a 7.62 round.

B) he was not close by. In todays modern combat there is no engagement under 300M and my shooter hit me at well over that. We decided it was likely 400 meters. I saw him through our optics. Mine was my ACOG and my buddy had his binos.

C) rounds slow over distance so getting hit at range is better than at CQC. your logic from before makes no sense.

D) you keep saying my logic doesnt apply to every one. So let me make this VERY VERY clear. You are a guy with MAYBE one story about some dude getting hit. I am an Army Special Operations Combat Medic who has been doing this job for many years. Most of these years have been spent overseas in combat situations. I have spent most of my adult life studying the affects of injuries on the human body and actually applying them in real life combat situations. You need to stop being do butthurt that you are wrong and quit pissing all over yourself. Reality is that we and most other countries militaries are trained to have fast seamless reactions to hits that dont severely injure or maim you and most of the time the human mind will override your bodys sense of pain. Thats just reality kid.

I am going to make this quick.

first of all how do you train a soldier to act upon being shot because the trainer sure as hell doesn't shoot ever soldier to find out.

secondly when i use the word instantly i mean it, the AI simply turn around and BANG your dead (most of the time before you can fire another shot)

and finally this issue is about consequences to being shot (NOT whether you feel pain or not) so that means vital organs, broken bones, etc. I imagine that if someone were shot in the knee they wouldn't be able to walk on it and due to the instant disability to that particular leg, they would fall (for at least a moment) at which point they STOP SHOOTING AT THE ENEMY! (what i mean by delay)

In NO case does the person that has been shot, fire back INSTANTLY!

there is also the whole other issue about instant detection after shooting an AI (from very far distances) but that is irrelevant right now.

First of all: If I see more people attacking eachother, I'll close down the ticket for one week at least to let everyone cool down.

That said, here is some interesting reading for you all; excerpts from a police manual about caliber and documented reactions of victims getting shot:

EDIT: I just realized that they're in German and scanned too, so you can't use translators on them, that limits their meaningfulness for most of you - apologies to that.
http://www.zerouptime.ch/files/Image0008.PDF
http://www.zerouptime.ch/files/Image0009.PDF
http://www.zerouptime.ch/files/Image0010.PDF

So there is definitely not one correct reaction to be modeled in-game; everyone is right. The reaction could be dependent of AI skill and probably some randomized value, also influenced by the spot of the body getting hit.

But correct implementation of my idea would also mean that some AI could shoot on for a moment until their adrenaline/blood pressure drops and they pass out or become otherwise incapacitated, even though the overall accumulated damage would mean death in-game, as by today's damage model.

look, ive studied some physiology. its just a fact, according to physiology and according to my own esperience, that survival instinct triumphs over pain.

the body uses pain to say "you need to get out of this situation because it is damaging you" but it just doesnt do the same thing when it knows you are damaged already

its like it says to itself "okay. he is already seriously damaged and if he doesnt directly focus he will likely become more damaged from whatever first damaged him"

then it heightens your focus and eliminates all pain - this isnt even an exageration.

if anything a soldiers grouping, from my experience, would be tighter after being shot because of the deep focus and stillness that adrenalin brings.

this is excepting situation where a major nerve to the arms/hands/etc was severed by the impact. of course a break in these nerves would incapacitate, literally, the person impacted.

@Fireball - those texts in english would be interesting

@Scorpion - if i was shot, and felt the person shooting was going to kill me, i would do whatever i could to shoot back, or hurt that person to a point that they were no longer a threat.

@sirbond - you are arguing about bullet wounds with a seasoned combat medic, whilst you yourself have no related experience. i think that is all that needs be said

further, taking into account hydraulic shock effects on human physiology, there will be at least a 2 second delay in damage effects from hydraulic shock ie hemmoraghing etc

*Edit by Fireball: removed flame bait*

Please refrain from iterating the same arguments over and over again, I think everything has been said now.

Also refer to my note above, where I explained how everyone is right to some extent, but there is no way, that there can be a physiological correct implementation in the game, that applies to every person - hence random events are needed.

I shot a guy in the face from less than 10m with a silenced 9m and he just turned and shot me with his rifle.

I know that I hit him, because I saw him jerk backwards.

Well, undoubtedly there was no lack of consequence to being shot, for the man clearly jerked backwards, and afterwards, proceeded to make you aware of his disapproval for such actions.

The problem here is that people are expecting AI etc to act as untrained human beings when in fact they are professional soldiers fully trained.

It's not worldwar 2 where you put some construction workers in combat boots.

You are expecting the AI to be stupid, act out of fear, be weak, but they are again, trained to get shot, waiting for it even. Read what COMBATMED101 says again, a few times, carefully, and realise that he knows because he has seen it and been there, before you post.

The other aspect here is a psychological one. You may spend some minutes stalking an enemy or preparing an attack. Psychologically this tends to make people feel they have imposed some control over the situation and therefore they are able to make accurate predictions as to the outcomes of the situation.

This is a congnitive bias. In reality you do not know whether the AI glimpsed you out of the corner of their eye, saw your shadow, saw a rabbit run away from you and thought "Maybe there is someone there" or saw your reflection on a car or window.

You just don't know. If you want easy AI play on low difficulty settings. This is ARMA. If you are trying to play alone and be a hero you will die because something will happen that you don't expect and nobody will be overwatching you telling you what is going on.

Shooting someone in "the face" with a 9mm sidearm hardly guarantees they will be dead, incapacitated or even seriously hurt. If you don't hit the eyes, brain, or spine there will be little instant effect. Even if you hit the breathing systems (trachea) there will still be sufficient oxygen in the individuals brain, lungs and blood for them to function with nearly full capabilities for at least 45 seconds. With weapon systems that fire 800 rpm that 45 seconds translates to 600 rounds minus 200 rounds for reload/aiming gives 400 rounds of full automatic fire versus your silenced 9mm sidearm. You are surprised that you lost?

@sirbond and anyone else who thinks "everyone should go down as soon as they are shot" - go read citations of people who have been awarded Bronze Star with V Device and see how many people keep going after being shot multiple times.

You just don't know what you are talking about dude.

Well, thing is, it is an exception, not the rule. If everyone could withstand multimple wounds and continue fighting - there wouldn't be an award for it, would there?
Also, the fact that there are awards doesn't change the fact a 7.62 will kick you down if your armor stands - they are not awards "I got a bullet in the head and not even flinched". Read the memoirs of special forces soldiers ("No Way Out", "Inside Delta Force", "No Easy Day"...).

mikemhz added a subscriber: mikemhz.May 7 2016, 2:18 PM

It's interesting to hear what COMBATMED101 has to say.

If I were to summarise:

   Taking high calibre rounds at under 300m will ruin your day (knock you down).

   Taking a 9mm burst to the torso (from an SMG) in CQB will have a similar effect as a single 7.62mm at the same range. Even if it does not penetrate, the force will add up and the momentum of the rounds will overwhelm your stability.

   Taking a round of any calibre, while running, will make you stumble more or less depending on your stability.

I don't want to get into the debate about how you will react in your mind and all that. But some obvious issues with this involve BALANCE.

Let's talk about balance.

--

If you're at ease, relaxed, any round will knock you down. A small shove will knock you down, so a bullet is definitely going to throw you off balance. This is due to narrow foot placement and high centre of gravity.

If you're leaning into your weapon, ready to fire, you've naturally got very high stability, as you're already braced to take the recoil of your weapon. This is due to wide foot placement and low centre of gravity.

Another point to make is you can be braced for impact from one direction, but not others. For example when standing on a train or bus, you can brace yourself for when the vehicle breaks and accelerates with one stance. But you must turn 90 degrees to brace yourself for sharp turns.

--

I would ask Bohemia to create some fancy equations based on stance, direction of force, direction target is facing, movement speed, range and calibre. This would help decide in a quantifiable (and therefore programmable) way, how players and AI react to being shot.

For those guys who isn't aware of..there is a mod "TPW_FALL" that is trying
to simulate (pretty decent) the dynamics of bullet hit until an official solution can be found.

http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?158398-TPW-FALL-realistic-infantry-falling-system

hey guys. its been a while since i have written something but i just have to say that i would think it to be fair and realistic if the following happened.

if you were shot in the vest with a high caliber weapon (7.62x51 >) then it should at least make you stumble or become winded.

if you are shot with an AP round (between 5.45 and 50.BMG) it will have little effect on you stance (still some effect)

if you are shot with a pistol round (9x18 or 45.) then it should make a noticeable effect on the person shot.

and please remember that the issue is called "no consequence to being shot" which means it is irrelevant whether you feel pain or not. I remind everyone that only a few milliseconds can be the difference between life or death and if those milliseconds are taken away then you are pretty much going to die a lot of the time.

I'm not sure if this has been posted already, but this is probably the best footage of someone getting shot in the vest you can find

http://youtu.be/c-UNFSZ8VKU (SFW)

Guy gets hit at around 1:20

oldy41 added a subscriber: oldy41.May 7 2016, 2:18 PM

Something similar to what tpw_fall does, but implemented in the engine with smoother transitions between animations would completely make my day.

Alex72 added a subscriber: Alex72.May 7 2016, 2:18 PM

Its more battlefield style in ARMA3 overall. OFP, ARMA1 and ARMA2 enemies dropped dead with 1 shot. Here they take a couple of bullets and arent even affected by it.

Bring back 1 shot 1 kill and add limping when shot in the legs plus worsen aim/sway when hit anywhere.

I agree that the AI should have some reaction if shot. Currently they really do just flinch and shoot back at you immediately with PERFECT precision.

I remember back in Arma 2, when AI or even the player gets shot, he will get this heavy breathing state and the weapon just starts swaying like crazy.

Why not bring that back to Arma 3? I mean with the new weapon sway we have in Arma 3, maybe it would be possible to increase the sway horrendously when shot for both player and AI. It would be a nice balance.

My feeling is that the different opinions displayed here are not too far apart. The 'shock' opinion asks for at least some delay or disturbance of return fire, while the Combat Medics 'no shock' doesn't totally exclude a disturbance in reaction.

A one or two second delay in reaction is both impressive for a trained soldier, but also gives the advantage to the attacker, where it belongs.

I would like to see the 'return fire no matter what' situation implemented! It could scare the hell out of the attacker, while it may be inaccurate fire.

jgaz-uk added a subscriber: jgaz-uk.May 7 2016, 2:18 PM

ArmAIII
Its the where the shot hits that's the problem in the game, you can hit an AI in the head two or three times with a rifle with what seems like no effect! & that AI will then shoot & kill you with one shot. the game needs BALANCE. Players or AI don't seem to get knocked down when hit, the kinetic energy of a bullet & where it hits does not seem to be built in to the game which is a pity.

There's a lot of argument about wounds in reality in this topic, balance in the game should be the focus yes?

Yes, balance is fine as long as it's realistic. It's not realistic to get shot in the head twice and survive.

Alex: the reason for the 1 hit kills changed is because now the vest and helmet are accounted as armor.

I noticed that in the recent patch 1.14 (not sure if it's related to this one, could have been done already earlier), they stop shooting and run to cover, if they're under fire/being hit.

Can anyone confirm?

While it would make this problem less annoying, as much as they stop being so agressive towards you, fireball, even with that, this problem is still there (but like how i said before, less annoying). I will try to test the AI behaviour (i just hope that the AI experience gauge does not change that.

Even if AI do react as if being hit, they should still get knocked down. Maybe when a bullet his armor, it forces them into ragdoll as if hit by a car and they go into prone after a few seconds of lying down. You can hit people with 7.62 in the chest, and as long as they have some form is body armor there they'll survive and keep going. Even if it doesn't penetrate to your heart, lungs, or slips past your ribs, you'll be knocked down for certain.

that's right, i almost forgot we have ragdoll physics, i remember back in the alpha (when i liked arma 3 and i thought it was a great game, unlike now) and there was this flashbang addon that also forced everyone affected into going to a ragdoll mode for a few seconds, i think that the ragdoll system should be used with the firefights, we already have the lack of hiding with the terrain (only thing WWII online/battleground europe is better than arma) but that should force players to dive in for the best cover they can find when they are in a firefight.

Or what can be done is, allow the guy to slowly retreat to cover and at the same time shoot.[i.e slow combat pace]

Blah blah blah realism realism blah blah blah.

Just add an accuracy penalty to the AI when they're shot and be done with it.

This is not a "realistic wounds simulator". It's a milsim, it simulates "military things" in a broader sense and nothing in specific, that's what lets it be a well rounded GAME.

in that logic remove simulation of guns, movement, vests, and such, because this is not a gun simulator, a combat vest simultor, or a sprinting for 300 meters simulator.

The AI reaction to being shot is now the WORST I have ever seen it, to the point where coop missions aren't worth playing.
All we talk about is the frustratingly immortal AI

When the alpha was released the enemy dropped with one shot and it was good.

I can appreciate all the new body armour thing (-: brilliant idea :-)
BUT what is missing is an attempt to preserve their own lives, they don't act human at all.
They act like a machine programmed to do one thing and will only stop when it completely shuts down.
Shooting them square on in the face is the equivalent to shouting "Hello, shoot me I'm here." And that is exactly what they do.

Ideally one shot should ragdoll them to the ground then depending on damage the character should either DIE, attempt to carry on fighting, crawl to safety, lay there dying moving occasionally.

Bucic added a subscriber: Bucic.May 7 2016, 2:18 PM
Bucic added a comment.Jun 4 2015, 9:05 PM

This, combined with the ridiculous damage handling, causes the following situation to occur often:
AI taken by surprise, idling
6.5 mm caliber
dist. 10 m
AI gets three short bursts to the chest within 1.5 seconds
Player doesn't get to live to see the the 2. second

Well, the fact that this is still a ticket getting updated is a testament to how BIS doesn't seem to care about making "mental shock" a thing for the AI and the players, or even ragdoll the characters for a little bit when getting shot non lethal in the legs, chest, and head.

After reading this again and judging the comments to be generally verbose - we have evidence of a civilian arguing with a seasoned combat medic about how trained human bodies react to bullet impacts - I would like to finalize my input here with a quote from the famous rap-god 50 Cent, which summarizes my feelings towards this thread;

"I got shot nine times but I don't walk with a limp."

Haha

And here we have evidence of a civilian arguing about how a quote from a 50cent song is valid when talking about consequences to being shot.

Haha xd jerking aim off target should be adjusted to realistic proportions

Bohemia added a subscriber: Bohemia.May 7 2016, 2:18 PM

Well when the enemy gets shot he jumps half a meter into the air, throwing his rifle, and then gets back in his previous stance in a milisecond like nothing happened, so yes, at least worse aim or firing less would help, I mean, that's how it works for the player when he's hit, no?