The new fatigue system's visual pulsating blurring of the screen (included in latest update) when the player's character runs/exerts themselve for an extended period causes physical sickness and headache in the player after playing for around 30 minutes.
{F19250}
hmm .. I think the blure idea is quite nice as it tries to give the impression of fading vision because of exautiont or if your hurt badly. I found it to be a bit much as it is now while running too, (maby because im not used to it ?) ... however while beeing almost lossing consiuessnes (i was shot very bad) i found the effect very well placed. What i find a bit strange is that the blure has many squares in it?
Another idea might be giving the image some noise ... but this could be hard on some people as well as a blurred image.
Maby onther option instead of blurring vision in exhausted state would be reducing saturation of the image instead (but not to full greyscale!). I think this could work because less saturation will make spotting possible enemy threads harder as well but without losing the general sharpness..
What happens in real life is what should happen in the game. The more gear, the more weight, the less distance you can go and at lower speeds. One doesn't get blurry vision, you simply are forcibly reduced to a quick walk and then if you don't slow down from there you will be forced to stop altogether to catch your breath. Your body will not allow you to run so fast and so far that you get blurred vision or start wheezing like you have asthma. Still, other than the blurry vision and the wheezing I think the distance and pace is fair and it does reflect how much gear you have on. Just drop the wheezing and blurry and keep the heavy breathing.
I understand this system but as it is now it's really a joke,
I walk for 20 meters (with the load gear bar half way full)
and start to get blurry vision, it's damn too quick.
Well youv got a point there. But I believe this is a designe decission. As developer you can go 2 ways. Either you dictate the player how he has to move for example by switching you into a walk pace because youre to axausted or they give you some visiual feedback to tell you .."if you run more your gonne collapse soon so step down a bit"
I personally find the other way very appealing, because in RL you can actually force yourself to go over your limit as well (coming with price of collapsing and such)
yes maby it need to be balanced but for that a bit more deeper resaerch on the toppic is needed because it very much depends if you rund 20 m hill up or down or in the flat with or without full/half/none gear
@Kumeda - You'd have to show me that one. I run every day and push myself with sprints, in the heat, uphill, downhill and I've never gotten blurry vision or started wheezing ... But, if you upload a video of you sprinting until you fall over unconscious without slowing to a walk and then bending over to catch your breath I'll take your word for it.
The problem right now is not that they want a way to show you that your character is exhausted. The problem is HOW they show it. Blurring the screen is just the worst. I'd rather have a slow fade-to-black instead of having this horrible blurry vision.
I find tickets like these to be too funny, people will bitch about representations of reality, I mean this is after all a game limited to constraints of virtual reality, and some things just cant be simulated so a placeholder work around like effect is implimented to overcome these things. This blurring when you get tired, really is just there as a representation.
Dont like it? Then stop and catch a breather, in fact, try and manage your runs and stamina according to your weight, you should know when to sprint, when to jog and when to walk, and when to take a minute or two to recover stamina.
Yes the blur effect is a tad bit overdone, but the way I see it, it is with good reason, and really bitching to the devs about it really is just lame, because YOU can overcome it yourself by properly managing your stamina. And it seems that is what the devs are trying to do. Cutting away from that unlimited stamina to run infinately to force a player to take a break, like in reality. As Kumeda says, they can drop the blur, and propbably impliment a mechanic that will make your character collapse and pass out, but then everyone will just hate it as well...
That said, you can be sure to find a mod that will disable this blurring effect, so hush hush. It isnt the end of the world.
ShotgunSheamuS
As I said before. It is not about that they want to show that your character is exhausted. This is NOT the problem.
The problem is, that the blurr effect is causing PHYSICAL PAIN for certain customers.
They just have to find another effect. Just not the BLURR. Especially not if the player turned it OFF in the options.
That said, let the devs find another way to represent the exhausted character instead of using effects which are just bad. It isn't the end of the world!
The realism has to be second to playability and if some people claim that the fatigue blur affects them, it should be possible to disable it. It was the same story with the motion blur in ArmA 2. Upvoted.
Hmmm I dont mind a different effect, lowering the contrast and saturation could do the trick maybe, but I bet you now, there will still be complaints. Look im open to alternative suggestions, as long as the principle remains, because I personally think it is a great addition.
Take a look at Arma2 - DayZ Epoch mode. If you have to much stuff on you and run for to long, your screen slowly starts to fade to black. Gets darker and darker the longer you continue to run, up to a pretty much pitch black screen if you don't stop running with to much load in your pockets.
Alternatives are there. That's why the blurr should be just an optional gimic for graphic effects and not a mandatory effect forced upon the player.
This is trial by error after all, so this is just their idea of how it should be? And all that is required is suggestions and solutions.
In that case, the poster should not just complain about it, he should provide an alternative solution to uphold the purpose of the principle, which others may not like as well but others are also welcome to make suggestions too.
Because honestly, it sounds like an excuse, blur doesnt affect me in anyway, neither does it anyone else I know. And this begs the question, why isn't there much fuss over the injury blur???
Because the injury blurr is not there when the blurr effects are turned off.
And I can promise you. You can be happy that it does not affect you. Just watching that screenshot gives me a bad feeling in my eyes. I don't know if it is exactly that, but it feels like my eyes just try to focus on the image which is not possible as it is artificially blurred. So they keep trying and trying and after a while it actually starts to sting. (No, I do not have any issues playing for 8+ straight. Just as soon as there are regular Blurr effects, my eyes start to hurt)
//Edit
Same goes for 3D movies in cinema btw. I either wait till they display it in 2D or not go to cinema at all these days.
Well im not denying your disability, if I can even call it that, just saying it is hard to grasp for me... It sucks to be you when it comes down to this, and as I say, I dont oppose to that, so I will change my vote as soon as the description is updated with the few alternative suggestions posted here =) The I will feel more at ease that the devs wont abandon this feature, but rather try to appeal to those who suffer.
@ShotgunSheamuS, disability? LOL
you have no idea what you are talking about sorry,
but it is a well known fact that some people can get headaches, dizziness
and stings in their eyes by these kind of effects, not all people but some.
especially known in 3D movies like AppLeNaToR said.
Lucky for me I am not one of them and like I said before I have no problem with
the idea but it's happening way too quickly IMHO.
Also, I think that just blurring the screen is the easy solution and not
very realistic at that. a ring of fading black around the screen
and maybe a faint double vision effect would look better and not cause
pain to people like AppLeNaToR.
maybe even turning the image sideways a little (like being on a boat but more big circle motion)
as to show dizziness and disorientation (or maybe not)
But the blurry effect is too much and not very realistic.
I don't ever remember having such a blur IRL, it looks like a camera
out of focus effect, and not a human blurry vision.
Anyway whatever effect is decided I still think it's happening way too quickly
that is my biggest problem really.
Bez, I know it isnt like that in real life, but neither is third person view, neither is little white and green dots on the side of the screen, etc. As I mentioned, some things cannot be simulated as it is in reality, like peripheral vision and sense of feel, hence some or other effect needs to compensate for it.
as for how quick it happens, yeah it's debatable, different people have different levels of fitness, not to mention it is a very different story all together regarding what gear you carry and what terrain you are on. Me playing paintball in the bush on very similar terrain where such long grass is actually difficult to move through not to mention run through, this seems pretty legit, and my gear doesnt even weigh half of what a soldiers does. so as I say, it is debatable, not saying you are wrong, but also not saying you are right.
i like the effect, don't have problems with it... just stop sprinting all the time and also take some time to rest...
@ShotgunSheamuS,
you are right it's a game, like I said I feel like the "out of focus" blur is
the easy solution, but like I also said, I don't care so much about the effect
it's ok by me, it's the timing that disturbs me.
I am an ex combat medic myself, so I am familiar with the loads of infantry
soldiers, and to me it seems like the soldiers in ArmA 3 are not in a good
shape at all, but thats just me maybe :/
-EDIT-
to make it more clear it feels like the ArmA 3 soldiers are pu**ies.
Ok i think even the low-health has a pulsing blurr. (before I was just running a bit to verify, had no time to properly play).
So its even worse. You can not even REST as you can not heal wounds all the time...
Played today for a while to test the beta and after a while I could feel my eyes reacting to the blur effect. I always turn off ANY kind of blur in all games. This should NOT be forced. Please remove or atleast make it optional.
This is not even realistic. Your vision does not turn blurry when you start getting tired IRL.
Please remove this badly implemented "feature" as it causes physical problems for people. It felt like I was wearing glasses. When i wear glasses in RL my eyes get all fked because I have perfect eyesight and everything gets kinda blurry.
I agree to all who said: "decrease Saturation and/or brightness instead of blurr",
but giving each player a choice between those two, would be best ;)
This is not about being realistic its about limiting your ability to perform somehow as a sign of exhaustion. If they leave it in, there should be zero ability to turn it off unless the impact to a player's ability to aim, see enemies, etc is just as bad, (like turning contrast or brightness down). Asking for it to be gone altogether is fine, if enough people want this they should just get rid of it.
It doesn't make me feel bad, but I don't like it. I hate blurring in games so I always turn off DOF, Bloom, motion blur, radial, etc.. It looks great like that. But then I sprint and it forces blur, boo!
Can hardly believe this.
Never heard of blurring making people's eyes hurt.
Still I know some people get really motion sick by playing games without sufficient UI.
@fujix: See your optician immediately. When wearing glasses everything should be sharp like you wouldn't believe. Like iPhone 3GS -> iPhone 4, Retina screen. Or increasing the "sharpness" setting on your computer monitor or using sharpness filters in Photoshop. Or the FXAA setting in ARMA too. Shouldn't be blurry or hurt unless your optician can confirm you have some sort of condition.
My vision has gone piss poor over the past couple of years and using glasses is really HD-like. Makes me a bit tired because mine are sorta small so I can only look straight ahead and I'm not used to the weight on my nose don’t get any dizziness or such.
If it's blurry you should probably get your eyesight reevaluated (you may have to do that every now and then) and if you get dizzy or something there could obviously be some sort of underlying condition.
@Sneakson
Well you can start believing now. My eyes get tired after watching the blur effect for to long.
And last time I visited my optician I had perfect eyesight. Thats why if I put on a friends glasses everything looks weird. Depends on the condition the user of the glasses has and the strength of the glasses of course. But no, the world does not turn into HD if I put on someones glasses. It´s in perfect HD WITHOUT glasses. I should probably edit my last post. Maybe its confusing :P
Basically, if the forced blur is not removed in retail, I'm refunding the game. Simple as that.
I can live with some of the bad decisions the devs are making with Arma3, but I will not accept a feature that affects me physically.
should be able to turn off all post processing effects, exceptions should not be as it adversely affects the vision of players.
I have no problem with this effect. In fact, I like it. It's a good way to visually represent fatigue. I've had no problems with it.
Lol fujix, honestly now, that comment was an over exaggeration... Look I'm not saying the devs shouldn't cater for you, but threatening them with a refund over that? It doesn't affect the majority, like majority aren't left handed and i haven't seen an option for weapons to be left handed, neither have i seen threats revolving around it.
Again, you will most likely see this fixed as a mod if the devs don't fix it. So chill bru =)
Upvoted.
Agreed with AppLeNaToR.
Fade-to-black would be the better representation of fatigue.
Or as an option: blur could appear on the edge of the screen in form of oval gradually dissipating to the center (center should always be normal) so player wont completely loose the focus but get it much more narrower during fatigue as my personal life experience tells me. Imagine modern racing game - concept the same.
How is it an over exaggeration? If the game causes physical problems for me Im not going to play it, therefor I will ask for a refund.
My eyes react to the blur if exposed to it for to long.
This feature isnt even realistic. There are so many other better ways to simulate fatigue so I dont understand why this is even in and why people defend it so much.
If you like the blur effect thats fine. You can use it when you play. The rest of us should not be forced. Remove or make it optional at least.
And no, I want to have a playable vanilla game, not resort to mods to be able to have an enjoyable experience since I mostly play online on servers that dont allow mods.
VodeUp, I wanted to puke when I saw this effect, Bueeee....
Resolve it please, cant play now
Ok guys... BUT the blur is honestly the only thing that TRULY makes you think about the equipment you take. The penalty for exhaustion should be uncomfortable and for me the blur is annoying(and i like it because of that). If you say that it hurts your eyes for example, then I agree that removing it might be a good thing BUT ONLY if you will create some kind of new penalty if you run too much(for extreme exhaustion - walking instead of jogging for example).
Great idea on the forum:
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?157425-Beta-fatigue-effects&p=2425755&viewfull=1#post2425755
Remember that exhaustion can be disabled by simple script! So please do not use arguments that it is "stupid" "annoying" and won't work on wasteland servers Y_Y.
A suggestion for a fix to this is to possibly allow the player to turn this off in the video settings.
Please at least reduce the blurriness as it also causes me to start to get a headache after the constant blur from running.
turn it off and then what? No penalty for running limitlessly??
If it is so bad, whyyy do you do this to yourself? Why do you have to exhaust your character to such an extent? Dont you think that is the principle behind the point of blurring the screen? Learn to manage your stamina!
Disabling it without a proper replacement that will disrupt the gameplay equally as effective as the blur, is not a fix! Besides, you arent forced to have the screen blurred all the time when running, only when you get exhausted, so learn to maintain and manage stamina, then you wont have to complain about it.
the ticket is assigned already, so I am sure they are testing out some alternatives that will have the same impact, without hurting your eyes.
@ShotgunSheamuS
There are several suggestions on the forums already.
-Forced walking.
-Slower movement.
-Increased crosshair sway.
All these are good and realistic penalties for not exhausting yourself.
And the good news? They dont add physical discomfort for players.
You Babies! I felt nauseous yesterday and my real life vision has seems blurrier lately. This game has paid for itself already.
I do not like how much I have to see the new blur effect. It hurts my eyes and is just plain annoying.
POSSIBLE FIXES:
1- Give us the option to turn off the blur effect from being fatigued. This would allow players who are not bothered by it to use it without it being annoying to others. I personally don't need more than the sound of my out of breath character to understand how tired the character is. On top of that, your aim becomes very unsteady. I think that's plenty.
2- Make the blur effect only happen when the player is about to be out of sprint-stamina i.e. tired to the point of needing to stop printing and revert to jogging. At which point the effect should go away at differing speeds depending on whether the player continues to jog or slows to a walk or stops to rest.
The blurring when wounded (not fatigued) introduced in the Beta is also extremely annoying. It's tricking my eyes into trying to refocus, thus leading to eye fatigue within a few minutes. I don't care whether this is realist or not, it's annoying and it should be opt-in and disabled by default, not mandatory for everyone.
Voted Up
I have post process effects off including head bob Now i have a third i would like to turn off. They all make me dizzy and sick feeling personally as well.
If people would not collapse at all due to overdoing it sometimes .. why do you think there are always ambulances at sport events nearby?
But thats not was I was on about. I just wanted to point out that there are different ways to implement limitations. The question is just how to?
I've been thinking a lot about some of these issues and have to settle on telling you guys to suck it up. Its meant to be annoying and meant to be such that YOU change your behaviors in order to not have to deal with it. It reminds of the old joke where a guy says to a doctor, "It hurts when I do this" and the doctor replies, "Then don't do that!". If these players were interested in not feeling nauseous or eye fatigue they would stop doing the things that lead to the blur effect causing it. I don't get sick from it but my head does get disjointed staring at it for too long. It took me about an hour of playing to realize that the ability to never see it again was entirely in my hands. I stopped trying to run for miles. I stopped loading a carryall with as much as I could. The worst part is, you guys are basically asking to remove one of the stronger reasons for paying attention to stamina so you can play the way you want. The only fix to this I would think is fair is to have your entire screen turn black. Once it begins, you either look away or see nothing if you aren't smart enough to work towards playing the game in a way that does not cause you pain.
^ This exactly... The effect is a neusance, even for me who isnt physically impacted, but I cant see shit when it blurs. So I learn to maintain and manage stamina. Any replacement effect would have to have the same impact, and this just to make the few happy.
Honestly, I still say, dont waste your stamina, and dont get shot. Then you wont have to see this effect at all.
If you're blurry because you got shot, you SHOULD be physically sick! They should tone down the blurriness from running 50 feet though.
I think that by default, fatigue and wounded blurring should only be enabled for Veteran difficulty and up.
That way, those who play for FUN and those who play to SIMULATE will both be happy. The whole "suck it up" attitude is just not constructive at all.
@ GeneralScott
Dammit! This is supposed to be a Simulation, not the freakin' matrix XD
@ others
why are there so many comments, that sound like the author didn't read at least the first ones.
I thought the solution Kumeda posted in the 2nd comment already solved it. At least for me it did.
"Maybe another option instead of blurring vision in exhausted state would be reducing saturation of the image instead (but not to full greyscale!). I think this could work because less saturation will make spotting possible enemy threads harder as well but without losing the general sharpness.."
the other option (fade to black) sounded good, too.
What's so bad about it?
please do the devs a favor and read others opinions before posting, or this issue will get too confusing. Most of the time you can simply agree to others, because nearly all possibilities have already been mentioned.
Lehman is right, ARMA is a serious game... If you want to have fun, play battlefield, that's what I do =) and yes you are allowed to enjoy both... Except CoD, lol XD jk
The majority plays for fun. It's a GAME. There is no need to impose everything to everyone. I don't mind those who are into full bondage realistic military simulation, but I also want the choice to disable such restrictions. There's no need for everything to be black or white.
I know it's a game, hence i called it a serious game as opposed to a simulation like others do, to me VBS is the Sim, but anyway, the devs obviously want to make it this way, and it should stay this way, now whether if you want to replace the effect with an alternative, I'm cool with that, as long as it has the same impact, but I'm against disabling it =)
What I'm saying is that the player should have an option to disable it for himself, not have it removed for everyone... Or, just have it enabled in Veteran difficulty and up instead.
So let's see, what you saying is you want to disable it as an individual setting for yourself, I'm other words if you and i play online, i get tired, then i can't see shit, but you can get tired and you can see clearly...?
Sounds awfully like an advantage to you, which is exactly why disabling blur won't affect being wounded or tired blur.
Once again, this about strategy and tactics, so that's how you play, with these limitations in mind, you need to discipline yourself, and learn to manage your gear, weight and stamina, and be prepared for when shit hits the fan. So again, this effect won't bother you at all if you manage your stamina, all up to you.
Or BIS can just add gameplay penalties, like increased weapon sway and slower movement when fatigued instead of graphic effects that makes people feel real life discomfort. That way no one will have an advantage over anyone and everyone can still enjoy A3 without damaging their eyes in RL.
Or instead, just have it disabled in Recruit and Regular difficulties, and have it enabled in Veteran and up. Plain, fair, effective, and simple.
Remove tired blur, keep wounded blur. IRL my world doesn't get all blurry after running 10 feet, or even a mile - and I don't even do track.
@AgentRev
Thats bad. I play on vet and up and I dont want to choose from either easy mode or hurting my eyes. So its not fair and effective.
Best solution imo:
Make blur optional.
Focus on gameplay penalties like sway and slower movement.
No unfair advantages. Those who like the blur effect can still enjoy it. People that have physical problems with it can turn it off. Main penalties are still there so one still has to manage their stamina if they are to be combat effective.
That is a fair solution imo. This is a game and thus should not cause real life problems. Very simple. Anyone who thinks otherwise should get his head examined.
@fujix: I wholeheartedly agree with you. It's simply that it's hard to please those with the "deal with it" attitude. It's a game after all, not bondage.
Still not a fair solution, so i get weapon sway and slow movement, and i still can't see, but you can see me clearly? The solution should be balanced equally. Still i think you guys are making too much of a big deal over this, because it isn't forced on you, really, just learn to manage stamina. Even if the blur "hurts" your eyes, starting at the screen for long period of times also is bad for you, yet we gamers do that still. We learn to live with it, and we manage the time we spend staring at the screen, and take breaks.
Well since you are such a pro at managing your stamina playing all tacticool you shouldnt be at a disadvantage right? And stop whining about being at a disadvantage. Live with it and stop crying.
@ShotgunSheamuS: The balance is present in the fact that you could also disable it too. By keeping it enabled, it means you're willingly disadvantaging yourself over players who decide to disable it. In that case, it's a choice you are making, and you can't impose it to others. Just like motion blur.
I just found out how to disable fatigue blur and wounded blur with script commands at the mission level. I guess I don't have anything left to do here then.
the fatigue blur is kind of silly though isn't it? Who here gets major blurred vision after running maybe a quarter of a mile or less?
The fatigue is just unrealistic. It's may be more like you have prob to focus, but not like now!
I am in the US Army, and I have never experienced this blurry vision they seem to love, but I have experienced tunnel vision on a long run and during heavy physical training.
What about blurring the edges of the screen and leaving the center clear to simulate tunnel vision?
@AgentRev, I thought so, but I used to turn off Post processing due to low optimization and loss off FPS.
@DDSSTT: Well, it did show even with post-processing off. Although, it's probably not exactly as you described, it was more of a darkening of the edges that pulsed every couple seconds, but without blur. It still currently does that, with the addition of blurring the whole screen.
Any other effect is better than blur so +1. This has been discussed in forums. There are way more better ways to simulate stamina so everyone can enjoy it. Just look what A.C.E. did for example in Arma 2.
Fade to black (maybe from outside inwards) sounds like a good alternative which won't hurt anybody.
Just making it toggle-off-able would create an advantage, making servers enforce this setting and helping nobody in the end.
I believe it's resolved or at least better in the current dev build, isn't it? I think you can turn off/tone down the blur which is currently used for fatigue.
Yes it's much better now, just there's always a low gradient color starting at 3/4 from center of the screen in direction to the edges, slighty more visible at the corners. But definitely better than before.
Much better, but I think I also turn-off the most of the blurring effects as the blurring effects are unrealistic in my view.
I like it too but have it as optional with settings (which I think you can do?), if not then this is no news. Some people didn't like blur since ARMA2.
There's one other way to resolve this issue, that may work for SOME, but not everyone (the effect probably bothers some more quickly than others). Take breaks from playing every 30 minutes or hour. Remember, it's just a game, and not taking a break has other physical risks to your body other than just headaches. Sitting for hours on end, playing a video game (or even sitting that long at work, using a mouse and keyboard, pen and paper, or anything else) affects your whole body. It can lead to things like bulging/herniated disks in your back, wrist and hand problems like carpel tunnel, cramps, headaches etc... The point is, if playing a game is causing you physical pain then turn it off/pause it/sit out a round or whatever and get up, stretch, get a drink, use the bathroom, take a 15 or 20 minute break, then play it again.... I am a gamer, and I spend a ton of time on my computer playing games, but I know what my limits are. Learn yours, and don't push them. The game isn't worth it.
As I said before, this won't work for everyone, as for some, even the first time hint of blur might trigger it. SO I do agree, there should be an option to force this effect off, on a CLIENT basis, without being considered a cheat on a server..
But please, please, PLEASE, remember to take breaks and don't risk your health just for a video game. It's not worth it.