This is mere a Feature Request than an actual Bug
Switching from a Main Weapon (Rifle/MW) to a Backup Weapon (Pistol/BW) always leads to a ~3 Second long Animation of the Player Model putting the MW on it's Back and then slowly unholstering it's BW.
This makes not much sense in the Perspective of Simulating Real Soldiers Behaviours and also renders the "Weapon on Back" Key almost useless if not for Roleplay purposes only. {F17005}
*)Start Editor on any Map
*)Put any Player Controllable Model in Map
-*)Ensure that the Model has a Rifle and Pistol equipped
*)Switch between Weapons
It is kinda strange that when you switch to your Backup Weapon (aka Pistol) that your Model always puts its Main Weapon on the Back before unholstering it's Pistol.
Usually when in Real Life the Need for the Backup Weapon arises (a Situation of imminent Danger combined with a Major Weapon Malfunction or unsuitability of the MW -> firing from an APCs Drivers Hatch) a Soldier lets go of its Main Weapon (so it falls into the Weapon Strap or in Worst Case - to the Ground) and unholsters his Backup as fast as Possible.
In Game this exhausting Animation sent my virtual Soldier a good 100 Times to the Ground. There is mostly not much use to the Backup Weapon at all - the only time I use it in a regular mission is if the Setting dictates it or my MW is out of Ammunition. This is not what a Backup Weapon usually is for.
There should be an Additional Mod Node for all Weapons that represents a Weapon Strap / Sling. A Player could choose from a Variation of already available Weapon Straps today. There are not only the traditional 2-Point Straps (issued with the most GI Weapons) but also more sophisticated Variants like a 1 or 3 Point Strap / Sling.
The implication in Game would be that if a Player chooses to use a Weapon Strap and switches to the Backup Weapon the Model would not play the ~3 Second long Animation but would start the unholstering Part of the Animation immediately while the MW stays on the Front Torso of the Model.
On the Balance State of this new Item: It is mostly dependent on the Weight and Length of the Main Weapon in Use. But I know from my Experiences in the Federal Armed Forces that running with my StG-77 was rather uncomfortable when it hung simply from my shoulders or dangling between my feet.
If a Player used a Sling instead of a Strap it would generally limit the Models movement Speed as long as the Main Weapon is not equipped - because they are usually not built to Shoulder a Weapon. (I do not have much experience with Weapon Slings so this is an Assumption)
For Straps you have to Press the "Weapon to Back" Key first to shoulder your Main Weapon to run at normal Pace with your Backup, while not doing so will lead to not more as fast Walking (as the Weapon hinders your Movement because it dangles around in front of your torso)
Just to clarify - I do not want that Players can instantly switch between Main and Backup Weapon like it is commonplace in most FPS but the current state of Weapon Handling is antique (to say it friendly, since the same animation and handling is more or less unchange in place since OFP) and does not represent any common practices of real Soldiers.
The attached Picture is to demonstrate the Differences between a Strap and a Sling, for those who are wondering or if I used the false terms.
as a former soldier i can only confirm this.
+1
the devs could keep the "longer weapon switch animation" for returning the backup weapon into the holster and getting the main weapon back into your hands (maybe a tick faster since you're not grabbing it from your back but from your belly).
Should of just asked for the original dead drop animation that Smookie had in his SMK animations pack.
The rifle would be held by a sling/your character would yank his pistol out, looked good & was effective.
Sling can be a part of clothing. Then it's possible for this to hook any weapon without custom on it. Pick up any rifle and fasten it.
@SmallBlackSheep: not really.
first, compare the report IDs ;-)
second: this report is not about not being able to move while changing weapons.
great idea, i think it can go further than just for fast switching, it could allow to temporarily switch out primary weapons without having to drop your current weapon and magazines, and then switch back again after use.
a simple example would be sneaking up on a sniper, take him out, and only be able to pickup the enemies rifle with current magazine, thus temporary use. Once you switch to either primary rifle or sidearm, you will drop the weapon on the ground.
Think other situations where a specific weapon could be very useful at a particular moment, and without the need of using the inventory, you can just quickly pickup an enemies primary, be it a rifle for sniping, support gunner, RPG, etc.
This way you do not need to go into an inventory to manage your gear in critical moments where the inventory could just be what gets you killed.
funny, in the walking animation, your character already has rifle slinged to chest.
this looks more and more like some stubburn(read: dumb) devs at bis refusing to make things more realistic because they worked too long on the idiotic gun on back animation. i mean it's a great animation, that's why they probably worked on it for days, but it's harmful to fluid gameplay and combat.
gun on back=role play and cutscenes.
gun on chest=true functionality.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAKdbT_-g90&list=WLCE25DF3D40C16D40
I can't believe this got only 70+ votes while that female soldier model thing got 700+..
Up-voted. Makes no sense for the soldier to take the extra time to place his carbine on his back, when he can just save time by dropping it and letting it hang off in front of him.
The animations from ArmA 1 if i'm not mistaken, thus something that needs to be ripped out/redone.
I believe, that currently while climbing a ladder, the rifle looks like if it was hanging on an invisible 3-point sling. All we need, is to have that posture instead of "on the back" and a few visual straps added.
Another thought, it would be nice to be able to pick another rifle on the field and put it into the RPG slot. The main gun on the strap, ready for a quick access and the second one, on the back, just in case. Sniper rifle + backup carbine or a battle pickup with plenty of OPFOR ammo to be looted from around.
Sure, it's http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=5374
"Allow rifles to be equipped in both the primary and secondary slot"
This suggestion was processed by our team and will be looked into. We thank you for your feedback.
Guys, they going to sit and talk about it. let's be grateful they even acknowledged this ticket. But i will be honest, if this doesn't make it in game, i will have very little hope for other features. I think the biggest issue with features and changes are time, and since they have a target release date, time is somewhat of a big deal... Unless we can all come together and tell them we don't mind waiting if it means more features =) which i don't, but i can't answer who's gonna pay for the time. Personally i already paid more than adding price by getting digital deluxe edition, so they have my extra money.
If you look at all the other reviewed ones, it somewhat does sadly.
They acknowledge every ticket, it's their job to comb through and look at the tickets.
They may or may not be implementing those which got 'reviewed' eventually. Now is not the time to judge.
I'm thankful for the reason ShotgunSheamuS said. They are paying attention :)
I cannot promise anything in this field. It seems like its a major design decision and I dont think it will be implemented.
What you are forgetting is what happens after you swapped the pistol. Lets say we want to sprint and hit the dirt and crawl fast 25 meters. To keep it realistic, the weapon should be at least pushed to the rear in order not to hurt yourself and not to damage the weapon (dirt, fall impact etc.). It would be rather uneasy for common players to acknowledge addditional procedure before initiating fast reaction motion.
Also, if you would see a GM6 Lynx or a GPMG hanging on the sling you would also be probably irritated. A compromise is needed.
Regardless, to make up for it, as i already wrote in the forums one day, please note that the time difference between real-life rifle to pistol swap by a common soldier is only 1/8 s faster than it is happening now. This was speeded up to compensate for these simplifications that we do.
It's not that we dont know about things :)
Well I am sure there can be work around's for the issues, after all, the weapon on the back is not the problem per se, but the slow switch between rifle to side arm for defense purposes, and if the speed difference is a fraction of 1/8, it is still that 1/8 that could get us killed, op save us. Speeding the animation up though would work, but could look very wrong and out of place, and at the same time would still feel like it can be done faster by dropping the rifle to chest.
only thing I can think of at this point, is perhaps a dedicated hot key for fast switching at least in terms of self defence, and not to be used as default for swapping weapons.
This can work in the sense that it is faster to switch and draw your sidearm but may have to have have a negative impact, in order not to get hurt or damage weapon, the following can be applied:
orrr alternatively since this is animation related:
alter the animation, so by default switching to sidearm will drop the rifle to chest, however if you are sprinting and going prone to hit the dirt, the prone animation is altered if you have a sidearm equipped and rifle to chest, animation will then be to dive down on your left hip side, and swing the weapon towards your back as you hit the ground, then roll flat on your stomach.
And then here is something I would suggest will work too, not so sure how anal other players would be about this.
Since there are no animations for opening and closing doors on buildings or vehicles, or even mounting, or jumping off roofs and knee high ledges, everything seems to be magical and leave room for the imagination to complete. Why must there specifically be a very detailed (and annoying) animation for switching weapons? Why not just cut the animation and focus on the time it takes to really switch the weapon by an average trained soldier, since that really is what matters here, and then have the weapon magically appear on the players back, or drop to chest, but when you go prone, have the weapon magically appear on the back shoulder?
The first phase of drop the rifle to chest already done!))
http://cs308531.vk.me/v308531153/a9f0/V33KEkeOamE.jpg
It seems like someone is preventing you from improving animations :(
To sprint and hit the dirt and crawl fast 25 meters with the pistol in our hands, we have to survive the situation that made us switch to the pistol first. To keep it realistic, the weapon should be dropped immediately in order not to delay the weapon transition and not to get yourself killed(an enemy rifleman turning to you from 5m away etc.). It WAS rather uneasy for common players(we reporters here are common players, right?) to acknowledge additional procedure(putting your rifle on back) before initiating a life-and-death movement that is UNHOLSTERING YOUR PISTOL and that's why this ticket exists without a single downvote.
As you may know, the problem of the current transition is twofold. It's slow(while prone this issue is dead serious - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBJ8nos5yqc#t=27m33s ) and unnatural(the animation itself and the fast-forwarded speed) all because of THE wrongly placed additional procedure. If some additional procedure(putting PW on the back / pushing PW to the rear) is necessary, wouldn't it be more natural to place it before less urgent actions like sprint or going prone? Why put it before the very last resort? If we reach out to our pistol instead of running or reloading or something, it means the threat is imminent and at close range. Running with the pistol etc. are actions subsequent to the transition. The ability to sprint faster after the transition means little when a soldier gets killed during the transition.
Please let us do it like IRL. It's natural and fast.
My suggestion is as below.
Please, Smookie. YOU are the one who made the cool and natural weapon transition animation for ArmA 2. YOU are the one who gave us hope of better animations in Arma. Please don't forsake us.
Another option is to let us hold the rifle in one hand with our pistol drawn, which is how some people do it. But as pointed out in that picture you've got part of your work already done there Smookie & you also had it in the SMK animations pack.
If someone switches to their pistol as mentioned above the threat greatly exceeds the need for cover & must be dealt with before proceeding to cover. Times such as advancing on the enemy then running out of bullets, switch to a pistol & finish them.
Just my opinion but if someone went prone for whatever reason they'd likely empty their pistol mag & switch to the rifle or reload their main weapon, so prone shouldn't be too big of a deal.
+1
Couldn't say it better myself,
from my own experience in the army I totally agree.
Though I am afraid this is beyond BI at the moment.
To be honest I think animation is either handled really really bad
in this engine, or BI animators are really really bad.
sorry guys but it's true :(
@bez:
From what I understood from the forums and dev posts here on the tracker, the problem with animations in ArmA engine is that one single animation is to be used for 1st person player, 3rd person player, and AI...
If I'm not wrong, normally different animations exist for the same action with other engines, while with this one a compromise between "works in all possible situations" and "looks good enough in all these situations"...
@Gliptal
It is also true that the OPF/ARMA series is a much more complicated than most
other games, so I am not judging in any way.
But in my eyes the animations visual side and/or technical side in the
OPF/ARMA series were never up to par with modern games, that is all.
I think that the base for the animation technology in ARAM3 haven't changed
much since OPF in 2001 (though I might be wrong on this one).
Every time I try to upvote this I realize I already tried to do so a couple of times. That's how much I want this feature.
Deceiver has already touched on this, but take a look at the animations for equipping binoculars.
The primary weapon is slung muzzle down from the shoulder, and then raised from this position afterwards while standing.
From the crouched position, the primary weapon is placed across the lap.
While prone, the primary is placed on back.
The binoculars are stowed on the left however, and maybe this is one complete animation, but these seem to fulfil the requirements of this ticket if the animations can be linked correctly.
Smookie, check these out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qrcx0DToDL4#t=2m18s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qrcx0DToDL4#t=3m20s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qrcx0DToDL4#t=3m26s
With the rifle dropped to the side, additional procedure can be eliminated.
Smookie had dropping your weapon on a sling to draw your pistol fast in SMK animations.
I would really like to see proper sling mechanics implemented. Quickly dropping your weapon to grab your handgun, or simply slinging your rifle rather than holding it in your hands 24/7.
Proper "Sling" mechanics wouldn't make a real difference other than quickly switching to a pistol for the most part.
Sure they would.
If you have your rifle slung at your side with no hands on it, it would take longer to raise the weapon. It would take even longer if you had the rifle slung along a single shoulder, or across your back in a very casual manner. Plus if you had the option to carry or sling your rifle a few different ways, depending on the type of sling, there would be some slight variation in the Arma series, which would be very welcome, considering everyone looks like robots holding their rifles the same way when walking around in a group.
Not to mention, if you were holding a large MG such as a M240, and it was slung properly while jogging, you could experience less fatigue because your arms don't have to hold it up.
This is Arma we're talking about here, every small detail makes a difference.
When you put it that way it might have a subtle effect, but there's not enough justification to really put it in.
Every small detail makes a difference, but a lot of the time small details are overlooked.
That level of details would be great but I think we should ask for basic ones like this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFDDhNGUP94#t=1m53s - first, considering the current status.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wouoN9e9fM4
It seems switching weapons on the move will be realized. That will be much more natural if a soldier drops his primary weapon instead of shouldering it.
Last night played a little, was blowing shit up with my RPG and when took fire i wanted to duck, and for God sakes, i died because of this. O couldn't go prone, because it was more important to put RPG on my back, and take primary weapon before going prone! WHY!?
I just wanted to throw my shit down and go prone you know! We need a solution!
Meanwhile, rifle to binoculars transition has become a mess. The natural drop animation since ARMA 1 is gone and it's this 'rifle on back' now. Even the transition in OFP CWC( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llR9sNZcHy0#t=0m10s ) was more natural than the current one in ARMA 3.
Why are you doing this BI?
+1 for sure!
was so disappointed when I found out that you put the weapon on your back when switching to a pistol rather than just dropping your primary and fast switching to a pistol, letting the rifle dangle around your chest
+1
I'm using a Magpul MS3 in combination with a S&S Weaponlink. If I need to reach for my backup, I just drop the rifle in front of me to the chest supported by the weak hand while the other reaches for the backup. To strap/fasten the gun, I attach it to the weapon link.
+1
and/or allow walking during weaponswitch, like similar to when inventory is open. if allow walking during weaponswitch, then only for pistol&rifle switch, pls not binos/laz0r/rocketlauncher =)