Simply an unrealistic amount of recoil on LMG's. Even if you are prone, you almost always have to use semi-fire when firing with LMG's. Holding breath doesn't really help.
- Legacy ID
I noticed this too, in the prone position. Keep in mind they are firing 6.5mm, but still...
If you pitted ArmA 2 weapons against people with ArmA 3 weapons, I'm pretty sure the ArmA 2 people would win every time. Recoil does seem very high.
The recoil on LMGs seems alot higher than others for some reason, full auto from assault rifle causes alot less recoil than full auto from the light machine guns.
They fire the same caliber for same amount of time at same rate of fire, why would a then seemingly heavier weapon have more recoil? Makes no sense whatsoever.
Recoil needs lowering when firing machine guns from prone anyways. The other rifles might need more recoil IMO.
If bipods are supposed to be utilized, let us utilize them then, so you can actually can lay down some supressing fire, and not supress the birds and clouds.
The muzzle climb and dispersion are ridiculous in some cases. Everybody that is talking about "It's realism. CoD kids like to spoil our much loved milsim." has no clue, sorry.
There is a difference between recoil and muzzle climb. And all you see in a game (correct me if I'm wrong) is different sway from different stances, the muzzle climb and dispersion. Especially LMGs being fired from a prone position are unusable at the moment. Even short bursts (2-4 bullets) have a dispersion that is all over the place. Managing the burst by pushing down and left or even starting firing from bottom left to let the climb do the work won't help a lot.
Nobody wants to dumb down this game to make every gun feel like a pee shooter. But at the moment some guns don't feel right, others like the MX LMG and the FN minimi are not usable at all and a waste of ammo on ranges above 400 meters.
Recoil is defiently not fine, its too low on assault rifles and entirely too high on machineguns.
Noone will ever use a machinegun in Arma 3 if it stays like that. Does not matter if you have 70 more bullets in the magazine if thoose 70 bullets are gonna kiss the sky.
Why people can't just adapt ?
If everyone keeps complaining about recoil and weapons handling we'll endup to a Call of Duty clone .... and i'm sure noone here wants that..
I spent a whole day in the editor trying guns in all the stances at different ranges while moving or standing still and i got the handle of it.. i can accurately shoot from every stance without really big issues if not the need of some mouse adjustments on the aimsight ..
You miss the point. I'm pretty sure that the amount of recoil there is atm with LMG's from proneposition is UNREALISTIC, which swings away from the point of this game. Also, I don't see the logic in assault-rifles having way way less recoil than a LMG from prone.
I don't have a problem with the recoil itself, just the fact that this thing is not realistic nor logical.
@Keksi: I just tried that. Firing from "standard" prone with the lmg full auto.. you just need a little mouse down movement to keep the gun perfectly steady.. still, nothing wrong with it IMO!
A lot of guys say "but in real life after you fire or during sustained fire you fix your counter-recoil force and keep the gun steady" ... well that's exactly what you should do in A3 aswell with the mouse movement.. if you take a M249 in real life (for examl), deploy the bipod and start firing it without countering its recoil, you would notice how the gun just "jumps" around the fixed spot made by the bipod...
This is more than realistic, this is perfect. This is not a spray and pray game like CoD or BF, this is a game that require wapen knowledge and you need to think before you open fire.
- Is the ground where i am laying on good enough for accurate fire.
- Can i deploy my weapon on this rock for accurate fire.
- Ect, Ect..
Real trained soldiers don't just spray their weapons empty on enemy's, trust me i know it because i have been there.. Yes in real life like videos on youtube you see people shoot and their weapon is not going up in the air, dont forget that most that are showing you how to shoot are trained in the weapon they use.
A small lesson:
Accuracy is not coming from spraying, it's coming from controlled fire. Firing in single or burst mode will increase your accuracy, shooting full auto is just to pin down your enemy's and let your team find any cover or moving closer to the enemy's location.
Also note that SMGs are used for close combat environment, AR for long distance firing positions. And MGs like the M249 are for support and supressing your enemy's positions so your team can move in closer or move around to shut them down.
@Kid18120, I dare you to show me a 100 round burst from a prone pos. all rounds hitting with reasonable spread at 100metres+. (a reasonable spread is not the tree tops 40 metres behind your designated target)
I double dare you.
The recoil is unrealistic compared too supposed weight and actual design of the weapon.
I dont want the recoil to be as low as the M249 was was in ARMA2, because that was a little to easy for raining down hell on a poor squad 300-400 metres away. But neither do I want the prone pos. recoil to be like your jogging with a PKM at full auto. There has too be some middleground here.
- Burst fire in prone stance has indeed way to much muzzle climb. I think bipods are not implemented yet (only visually)
- Reading the comments I'm not sure we're playing the same game...LMGs are made to engage infantry at 300+ range...M249 effective range is 800m...with current dispersion at those range it's just not possible o0
- At 500+ range just forget about any supressive fire (in 2-4 burst). Shots land meters away from each other. I tried this several times in Coop.
- I play the serie since OFP. I never fired a LMG so I don't know if that's more or less realistic but this definitely less fun...can't support my team from the back cause I have to stick to assaul rifle range.
In mp i took out a squad about 400m away under cover and behind rocks by using controlled bursts. Controlled bursts are the key right now. The recoil is noticeable and took some managing. Agree though that bipods that actually provide support are the best solution for lower recoil and more control on greater distances.
Recoil is ok as long as bipods are implemented.
I take the point of using controlled bursts, firing down the sights etc - this is all a given when talking about ArmA - but the upwards recoil even when prone on the LMGs currently seems a little bit overdone imho.
There is a bipod ticket aleady with 100 votes, vote for it if you want em.
800M is sniper range bud.
If they even just changed the bullets to fly out in directions other than just up from the barrel that would be an improvement on it's own.
using a lmg prone and only the first shot goes anywhere near where im aiming even when prone. I don't expect nor want cod or bf3 but the muzzle climb is way overkill.
Obviously i shoot in burst too but pretty soon im single shotting because yeah.
Recoil in reality
Any light machine gun (MG using assault rifle bullets, such as 5.56) and medium machine gun (rifle cal., such as 7.62) have no upwards recoil while prone. You can check this out on any youtube video with SAW light machine gun for example.
Usage of LMG in reality
Light machine guns are (despite popular belief) supposed to be used at medium and long range. Many medium MGs have ability to shoot up to 2,000 meters, LMGs up to 1,000 meters. In fact US weapons guide specifically says machine gunner should target distant targets. Its quite logic too, because close targets can be deal with by ordinary soldiers. So argument above that LMG shouldnt be used at 800 meters is totaly wrong.
- LMG have no upwards recoil while prone in reality.
- LMG are supposed to be used at long range, MG is not short range weapon! Its not shotgun.
And no, we're not stupid
No, we don't want to be like CoD
Yes, we know as much in firearms than you if not better
And yes, we know how to compensate with mouse the exaggerated recoil but we don't want to bacause it's annoying and unrealistic !
Using an LMG makes me a super soldier...?
You're average infantryman uses a rifle, they also have your average joe hauling an LMG around to support them. A guy carrying an LMG isn't anything other than average bud.
Far too much recoil when proned.
Proned is the only position where I would expect to be able to fire at a higher rate with more accuracy. at the moment you have to fire the weapon in single shot's much like a sniper rifle.. this isnt what LMG's were intended for!
bipod as mentioned might be a good solution.