Game Version number: 1.3.0.18
Modded: No
New mechanics which doesn't allow spawning on the base attacked the enemy is not good for Conflict gameplay.
We can take a heli with AIs and drop one AI in every enemy base, that may be captured and has no defenders. This way game becomes very static and mundane pseudo-strategy. Drôle de guerre in Reforger.
We should go back to current state - timer on attacked base and ability to spawn.
Go to enemy base, start capturing, enemies cannot spawn there.
I agree that it should be back to the old timer mechanic. Adding back the ability to dig down radios to cut off spawns already does a good enough job of allowing for a siege on a base. One person capping shouldn't completely prevent us from spawning on a base.
I think they should expand on the original capture mechanic. Previously you had to manually reconfigure a relay to capture a base. If you combine that with the majority presence at the base and then perhaps include more points to configure after a base is captured to make it usable otherwise you cannot use any structures in the base you could fix the issue. For example: living quarters (replace paperwork), vehicle maintenance point (restock spare parts), field hospital (sanitize equipment), ammunition supply point (resupply weaponry), fuel supply point (change nozzles). Each part of the base should be unusable until it is reconfigured. This way bigger bases would take a concerted effort to take and you couldn’t just have an AI capture bases while still not allowing spawning on bases under attack.
Strong disagree. The new mechanic forces teamwork and coordination to quckly react to enemy presence rather than the minigame that was respawn on command tent and fight. It needs tweaking and possibly AI need a rank and supply reduction to make it easier to defend bases to counter the strat of flying in with a chopper full of AI and dropping one at each base but the new system is 100% the right direction to be going. Most players ive talked to are in favour of the new system, its more realistic, it promotes teamwork, its more fun and it doesnt punish attackers for successfully killing enemies at the base. Its not a perfect system but to regress into the previous system would be an incredible mistake.
@Technicolourmatador
Even now, when defending base is so easy, very few people spawn on attacked bases.
90% of players don't like driving, don't care about driving, don't know how to do it. So they don't drive to attacked bases.
99,99% of players love flying and can't do it.
So if you sum this up, for most player it will change the game into 30-minute long fight with AI and then loosing/wining without even experiencing any highlight of Conflict.
Why? Because a team of 2-4 people with Willys can drive around every enemy base and capture one by one. Not to mention heli.
In the first week over 50000 copies of PS version were sold. It marks a huge change for Reforger and Arma franchise. We're just stepping out of dark burrow of very niche game into the wast world of casual players.
Such mechanics as this new one may be too hardcore for them. They will still be playing the game, but they will be purposefully omitting it's core features. Exactly as it happens now with supplies, spawning AIs, making self-defensive layouts of bases, using radio spawns, proper communication etc. I'm not even mentioning teamwork, because at the moment it's nearly non-existent.
I can manage with any new mechanics, you can also and many other more experienced players. But I'm worried that such changes may slowly kill the idea of Conflict.
People do not move to defend a base. And they never do because they put their hopes on the people that spawn there to defend, simply because that is easier to do that than actually moving there to defend. Attackers always have to shoot at enemies that pop out of nowhere.
The days of shooting an enemy that spawns in front of you while him being invincible and getting spawn-camped/killed are over. The battlefield will be on a bigger area, not focused in that particular circle on a base, reconnaissance will be even more important.
Soldiers not spawning on under-attack bases is a good change, it promotes defending squads. This mechanic is a good foundation for future improvements.
Ideas:
1- Time to capture a base should be increased even more to promote fighting around the base;
2- A siren that can be toggled on in a base by a player/AI (If the AI spots an enemy, for example) to let everyone know that a base will get attacked, making a marker on top of the base sign on the map appear to every friendly player that indicates that the base is/will be attacked (not the getting captured one). This is good to make people in the spawn screen know that they should spawn there to defend a near-future attack;
3- A timer in between under-capture and not-under-capture states to make the transition smooth. Enemies stepping out of the capture circle should not make defenders be able to spawn dozens of players instantly;
4- Prohibition of spawning AI and placing buildings only when there's action inside the capture circle and not when an enemy soldier that has not yet been spotted steps inside the capture circle. (No more enemies hiding in bushes to prevent building). E.g. An enemy that shoots inside the circle prohibits people from spawning AI and build. If he does nothing after a set amount of time or leaves the circle then you can build again.
5- I never played the original mechanic but it could be the basis of a good idea: "Previously you had to manually reconfigure a relay to capture a base." -> Reconfiguring a relay to stop enemy spawning and begin the capture, for example.
@Spiderwolfer That's some good ideas you wrote, way better than the current binary system. It could make players organize the current base before moving to attack the next one right after the capture; increase/decrease capture times depending on the buildings that are controlled by you or the enemy; leave the defenders a chance to attack again at a faster rate (if the buildings are still theirs.)
Some of these ideas might have some flaws here and there that I did not think about when writing this. I'm more than happy to discuss them with whoever reads this.
I am afraid that you will be dearly disappointed by this. We look at the game through eyes of experienced players. People will still count on someone to go and defend the base. It's the same as with supplies. Everybody needs them, but only few bring them, yet on platoon channel there's constant "We need supplies at..." "Let somebody resupply ..."
I will repeat, for the last 10 days Reforger had influx of 50000 new players. If vanilla conflict will be too hard for them, they will force-casualise the game. In 128-player server, there will be very small group of players actually defending bases. Rest will fight at Montignac and rounds will last 30-40 minutes.
I wish I was wrong, but reality speaks for itself.
@kawalec You could be right, though I don't believe rounds will last 30-40 minutes as the changes are for both teams.
Trucks now carry more supplies, and it also decreases the frequency of the people that die and spawn 5 seconds later knowing exactly where the enemy that killed them is.
I guess we will see when the update drops.
I may sound jaded here but hasnt that always been the case? In my experience of the 24 people in a faction its usually 2-6 who actually make the moves to allow the faction to win. Im not saying they carry or they do all the work but from what ive seen its generally a small group of experienced players who each individually make space for the rest of the team to win. The best way to get players to go where they are most needed is to drive or fly into a base, tell people to get in and then take them straight to where you know they need to be. If you are about to lose connection to a side of the map because you can see the enemy is pushing the last base that connects radio coverage from east to west you can call it out on radio all you want, the people who stop that from happening are the people who can go to a random group and say ive got a car get in. The 2 chopper pilots who ferry troops from MOB to the enemy backline bases that are in range, the guys who setup machinegun nests and roadblocks, the people who drive the mobile command trucks into position, its always a small handful who control the way the game is played and it allows space for the more casual minded to play as they wish. The only difference I see between this new system and the old is that the experienced players will have more opportunities to effect the battlefield. I was a new player not too long ago, ive put alot of time and practice into understanding and improving my tactics and strategies and the reason I did is beacause there are facets of this game that make your choices actually impactful to the overall success of your team. There are 50,000 new players, many will not stick around, thats just the reality of gamers. Of the portion of players that do stick with reforger most will be casual, but not all. This game attracts a certain type of player at much higher rates than other games, the type of player who is happy to run logistics, build FOBs, drive MCTs, setup ambushes and land nav across the map in the dead of night. Ive only been playing reforger for 4 months, not so long ago I was that casual player that drained supply and ran headfirst into the same base over and over. I have faith that there are players out there that will make this new respawn system work because ive seen players make every other system work. It will force the meta to change and players will adapt, just as they did when helicopters or AI or radio backpacks were introduced. I dont want to come across as dismissive of your concerns, I see how often you are posting in the bug reports and more importantly how often you help out other players with their issues, you clearly want the game to succeed. However in this specific case I dont think that what were looking at is the first steps towards the death of conflict, I think we are about to experience the same thing weve always experienced, a handful of players adapting to the new meta, integrating it into their play style and using it to influence the battlefield in a strategic manner while everyone else sends themselves in waves towards monty, coastal morton, coastal chotain and milbase levie. The only difference is now the defenders wont be spawning in, theyll be driving and flying in.
We can take a heli with AIs and drop one AI in every enemy base, that may be captured and has no defenders. This way game becomes very static and mundane pseudo-strategy. Drôle de guerre in Reforger.
This just means people will actually have to build up bases with supplies and AI defenses, what's wrong with that? Sounds like a great change to me
@sashabyson
Achievements are quite interesting indicator of players' engagement in the game.
Trucker Joe - 5000 supplies delivered per round in Confilct (no matter if official or community) only 0,4%
Major promotion - 1,3%
So only 30% of people ranking to Major delivered 5000 supplies.
Another interesting one is percentage of people who destroyed 25 vehicle in total - 0,9.
Players are not using fast-rewarding features of the game. So why all of sudden would they start using new, fairy demanding mechanics that requires a lot of additional actions only to risk being killed? Especially that they can just go to the NEAREST base where enemy is? Or put MHQ around Montignac.
Just answer that question as if you had 50 or 100 hours in the game. Not 1, 2 or 3 thousands.
Most pepople in this game don't follow the overall strategy of Conflict and like @Technicolourmatador already said it's usually a handful of people in any given server that are moving the game one way or another, it sounds like your complaint has more to do with that then any specific game mechanic. Why not wait until these changes hit stable servers to see how they affect the game instead of trying to predict how you are going to win every game?
@sashabyson
I don't know how you draw that conclusion: "trying to predict how you are going to win every game?" It's not first nor last time people here are using personal arguments.
People are not using basing mechanics at all. They are transforming the game into mindless FPS shooter. Introducing this new mechanics will make that problem even bigger. 1.3 is in Experimental only, so casual players (huge majority) cannot test it, so you cannot see how they behave. Join any Vanilla community crossplay server. You'll understand what I mean.
Why not wait? Because there were already couple of mechanics that were introduced and then removed. This one presents as such.
I'm having a hard time seeing how stopping people from spawning on points that are actively being captured transforms the game into a mindless FPS shooter. If anything repeatedly spawning on a contested point seems like a mindless activity🤷
@sashabyson
Casual players will not travel to attacked base. Now you can always ask people to spawn on such base. After introduction of the new mechanics, you will have to transport them there EVERY time. Spawned AIs is not enough to defend the base, we all know that. Thus capturing bases will be much easier and rounds will be unbearably short.
1.3 is in Experimental only, so casual players (huge majority) cannot test it, so you cannot see how they behave.
Casual players will not travel to attacked base.
You seem to be confident in how casual players will act after just saying we cannot see how they would react to these changes.
Thus capturing bases will be much easier and rounds will be unbearably short.
What is stopping the opposing team from attacking enemy bases if it is so easy? They have also increased the time to capture points based on how many radio connections the enemy team has to that point so there is more time to react. Experienced players have always been able to close out games very fast when focusing objectives. It's difficult to understand why you think this change should be reverted when we haven't seen it come to fruition yet and you are just making assumptions on how it will play out.
It seems like you want to argue for the sake of argument which I'm not interested in so this will be my last reply to your thread with which I'll lastly say spawning on a point that is being captured is a gamey mechanic that feels bad for both teams (staring at command/radio relay tents waiting to blast players as they respawn and vice versa is not good gameplay) which I am glad is no longer!
@sashabyson
"You seem to be confident in how casual players will act after just saying we cannot see how they would react to these changes." - I assume that you've played long enough to see how less experienced players react to new or changed mechanics.
"spawning on a point that is being captured is a gamey mechanic that feels bad for both teams (staring at command/radio relay tents waiting to blast players as they respawn and vice versa is not good gameplay" - so don't do it, because it is indeed shitty behaviour. Imagine that you've spent some time resupplying and building a nice base, and your team loses it, because nobody goes to defend it. And if this base is Andre's Beacon, it seems unimportant until you control Entre-Deux. I am certain that you know what I mean.
"It seems like you want to argue for the sake of argument" - projections FTW!
Anyway, we have different point of view, that's why I've made this ticket and I will be trying to convince people that it's not a good idea, because I have enough experience to predict its consequences.
The new system has its drawbacks, but it's better than the current one, where you have to dig up a base, and sometimes even that doesn't help - that is, the radio mechanics are less predictable.
We'll have to see how it all works with a large number of players.
That was the best decision to turn off this function. I was tired of fighting the Freshspaws with spawn protection. If you don't defend your base, you're out of luck. Fair play for all. Spawning on bases that are under conquest is unfair! I don't need opponents spawning in front or behind me and happily killing me. And I have to guess when to fire. Yes! They have protection running. THAT is unfair. PLE
ASE KEEP THAT IN BI.
What is the problem? You leave your base alone and come when we want to conquer the base via TELEPORT. I know quite a few who click on respawn after the “successful” defense and hop to the next base and spawn there! An attack has to be well planned and needs resources. You new spawns come out of nowhere and take us out. That is what ?
