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Third person gives unfair advantage / decreases experience of the game
Closed, ResolvedPublic

Description

I believe that Third Person view will take away the reallife aspect of the game. Looking around corners or have a greater field of view will give you an unreal advantage. First Person gives a more reallife experience

I believe i'm not the only one who thinks this way. Maybe enable the Hardcore servers again (where third person is turned off) will resolve this issue for most of these players

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Yeey first person only servers are upon us. Let's enjoy them. Stop the hate on eachother and start the love for the game.

Details

Legacy ID
12346012
Severity
None
Resolution
No Bug
Reproducibility
Always
Category
Game Settings
Additional Information

I'm aware of the fact that this isn't a bug. But keep in mind, this forum is for ALL sorts of feedback.

Event Timeline

There are a very large number of changes, so older changes are hidden. Show Older Changes
Rusk added a subscriber: Rusk.May 8 2016, 2:08 PM
Rusk added a comment.Dec 22 2013, 9:21 AM

We will never agree on a solution that works for both sides so I would suggest to make it an option you can filter for in the server browser. Basically what we have with the mod where both 1P and 3P exist side by side. And honestly if pressed to decide between the two I honestly couldn't because I like both variants as long as the playing field is level.

This is the same issue as pitch black night... yes people can see around corners but if you are looking for realism there are plenty of ways to see around a corner easily or beyond a wall. You find a hole or carefully look around the corner or even use something reflective not an option in a game. Same thing if you look at pure darkness night yes very dark is more real but you don't have a sense of touch. The fact is we are playing a game you have very minimal senses while playing small advantages are needed to help.

This isn't a bug, don't report it as such. There are plenty of MOD Day Z servers that disable third person. There will probably be so eventually with the standalone servers, get over it.

This isn't just a bug reporting site. It's for feature requests too... LOL

But 3RD Person shouldn't be turned off, Private hive servers will have an option to have it disabled or enabled I think when they come out

As has always been the case, if players are given an easier game option, many will invariably choose it over one that may be a _better_ game option. Server operators in turn will generally cater to the lowest common denominator, resulting in very few -- or no active --1st person servers.

Dslyecxi sums it up best in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=v7zoVIsIT2A

A good compromise might be to have 1st person only on official servers and allow private hive operators to do what they want.

Man this a BUG REPORT FORUM, Not a bitch about a game feature you don't like forum. Wow...

I see all these people on here bickering about third person and why it is needed and not.
Here's my opinion.
instead of taking it out, why not change it? why not make it an over the should third person view, to where yes, you can still see your character, but unable to see around corners and walls.
instead of the camera being 2 meters from your character, make it a foot or two away, that way those who want to play in third person can do so, yet not have an advantage over those who play in first.
simply change it to balance out with first person.
if people wanna destroy the immersive factor of the game, let them, but make it to where doing so doesnt give them an advantage. Which is exactly what third person does, gives them a greater advantage.

Just an opinion/idea.

To those who say "This is not a bug, I'm down-voting" all I have to say is stop white-knighting Rocket. They will not go on a date with you for being an asshole, seriously go smell your own farts somewhere else.

Attention: Everyone please take a moment to read the first word of the URL in your browser -- "feedback". This is the appropriate place to submit both bugs and feedback.

I've been nothing but respectful of other people's opinion and would appreciate it if you do this same.

I do not agree, I like having some overview, it compensates for the lack of senses we dont have in the game, like vibration, very low sounds and such, it lets you be more content

gray added a subscriber: gray.May 8 2016, 2:08 PM
gray added a comment.Dec 23 2013, 12:56 PM

3rd person should be removed, it's not realistic and detracts from the immersive nature of the game.

3d Person shouldn't be removed, just set up correctly, so you can't see over obstacles, which you can't see in 1st Person mode.

That's the whole point, look OVER obstacles.. you can't do that IRL. So we should't be able to do it in game either. Also nowadays you're forced to play 3rd person since otherwise you would have a really big disadvantage versus other players. Therefor we need 1st person only servers.

false, IRL you can look over obstacles exposing let's say 5% of your Body to the enemy. here you can't do that. why don't you demand this with the same logic and arguments you provided? IRL you can also use every Kind of reflections even being totally hidden behind the said obstacle. so your Argument is invalid.

it's the same issue while driving a vehicle in dayz mod. you can't use mirrors and its very unrealistic. so better tweak 3d Person mode with some restrictions than turning it completely off.

I play the game in 3rd person for a number of reasons. None of which are about unfair advantage versus other players. In fact I haven't killed one person in the standalone, and in the mod I only killed in self-defence.

Since vision is our only sense (I find sound non-directional and filled with irrelevant ambient noises) I simply don't have a decent perspective of what is going on around me. I use 3rd person to give me more awareness.

In such a huge map, with such detail, things get a little clunky. I find moving in 3rd person means less getting caught on door frames etc.

I like the aesthetic of seeing my character wearing all the gear I worked so hard to scavenge.

My computer renders 3rd person better than first person (the same with Arma 3).

As far as realism goes, it's a game about ZOMBIES for God's sake! We're running around an island where there are more weapon modifications than there are can openers; houses contain more hospital grade medical equipment than utensil; and I can run for kilometres where a motorcycle helmet without either breaking my neck or overheating.

I'm sure all of that can be rationalised away through some fiction, so why not just pretend that a side effect of the zombie virus is a mutation that allows people to see around corners.

I promise not to force you to play in 3rd person, just don't make me play in 1st person.

As i said, dont take third person out, just balance it with 1st, so you cant see around corners, over walls, ect..
for those saying that it doesn't give an advantage, you are wrong, countless times iv won firefights simply because i could see around a corner without exposing myself.
maybe they should add a mirror or something using the (picture in picture) that arma 3 uses.
or like i said in an earlier post, just move the camera closer in third person.

It's an advantage over those using first person, either fix it, or make 1st person only servers.

1st/3rd is a player choice. I use both depending on circumstance. 1st person inside buildings and 3rd out in the big wild. By all means, restrict away on your own server as you want. But then, I don't PvP.

Sidu added a subscriber: Sidu.May 8 2016, 2:08 PM
Sidu added a comment.Dec 23 2013, 9:04 PM

so go play first person servers only that will be on tommorow... god...

Make it so that when you are getting shot at (combat mode) you'd be forced to enter 1st person, and stay there for 5-10 minutes.

@RuwnDecay
How would you even begin to code for that?

You don't, it's a stupid idea

I dont mind 1st or 3rd person views but i like the 3rd person to look about while chilling n eating n stuff also for lookinb behind me as all i see in 1st is an Axe n backpack :(

Blaerah added a subscriber: Blaerah.May 8 2016, 2:08 PM

Just needs "veteran" servers. 1st person + no crosshair = bliss

no_more added a subscriber: no_more.May 8 2016, 2:08 PM

I've got the compromise for you guys. What if the 3rd person view will be not available only while you in combat?

Agreed; need veteran option, good old veteran!

@no_more That's stupid, if somebody camps on a roof and waits until he can get a shot on you you will be dead by the time combat mode kicks in.

Only idiot streamers and bandits want the 3rd person view. Real men want first person only.

FinKone added a subscriber: FinKone.May 8 2016, 2:08 PM

Men = first person
Women = 3rd person.

Everyone knows this.

Being able to gain battle field data without sticking your neck out is a joke. Its annoying. I use 3rd because I refuse to let someone get the advantage on me. I wish I didn't have to.

While this in the wrong place... (its a opinion, not a bug), to many people would cry about 3rd being gone.

Lower the camera orbit point at least....

I Don't think 3rd person necessarily has to be removed to satisfy a certain portion of people but other methods can be used to nurf people from exploiting it's offset from the character giving a greater view than 1st person.

This is how I would address this, tell me what you think.

  1. When Player's Character approaches obstacle/object from 1.2 metres breaking vision either cause 3rd person camera to be locked above character or Lower the 3rd person Camera height and distance stopping player rotating to an exploitative extent.
  1. The harsher method is to lock the players ability to rotate camera independently around, and is fixed directly behind character, panning with players' direction changes. (3rd Person Only)
TITAN added a subscriber: TITAN.May 8 2016, 2:08 PM
TITAN added a comment.Dec 27 2013, 5:10 AM

I like 3rd person but would not be mad if this game was first person, however they need to raise the camera on first person mode as you cannot see the tops of certain shelves so you can't get to items that are up there sometimes.

I disagree so much, its hard to tell in words. But basicly the game needs to playable instead of wanting to be too real imo..

Tis the first of many battles between fun and realism!

Me two cents:

1)Saying that 3rd person has an advantage over 1st person is true but it is a moot point since everyone has access to the 3rd person view. If I could only use 1st person and you had access to both 1st and 3rd then it is relevant to say that you have an advantage over me. This is not the case though so there really isn't an issue along these lines.

2)I don't think anyone disagrees that 1st person trumps 3rd person for realism. Some will argue that 3rd person gives the player a realistic 180 degree view but in my opinion this is more than cancelled out by the very unrealistic ability to see around corners and over walls. *I think this is inherent of a 3rd person view and no amount of tweaking the view will effectively remedy it! You will only end up making it redundant* Besides, the alt key offers you 180+ degrees.

Personally I don't see the point of the 3rd person view except to make the game more fun and for me the fun comes from the realism so yeah if I was making the game I would can it altogether.

I think at the end of the day this is a conundrum for Rocket and it's just a question of whether they want to sacrifice fun for realism or vice versa. I've given my vote :)

I can't play in first person. I just can't. I've tried. I have so much difficulty navigating through buildings and around obstacles without being able to actually see what my character is doing. Sure it gives an unrealistic advantage to those who use it, but the fact is that EVERYONE has the option of using it, so the advantage is not unfair. What I think they should do is make hardcore servers that force first person like in the mod. That way people who like third person like me can continue using it on veteran servers while people like you can play hardcore servers. Everyone wins! Just keep in mind that this game is still in alpha development, so try not to get too carried away with your demands.

delset added a subscriber: delset.May 8 2016, 2:08 PM

I enjoy viewing my player in third person during long walks on the beach. First person only, should be a hardcore/server setting.

what about more close up third person? so you are not able to look around edges

Luckily this is a game, not real life and i always try to play in 3d person in ALL games. It's a feature, not a bug.

Must be a DayZ noob who made this thread - DAYZ always leaves this up to the servers. Different servers for different people. PVP, PVE, Role Playing, 1st person, 3rd person, both, whatever. It will be added as a server option soon, its already been reported.

Don't waste the feedback teams time with these sort of posts.

This should be an entirely seperate option. This should not be bundled as default with "veteran" difficulties or such, this should be given a parameter similar to the crosshairs flag and let the server owners decide if they want a first person shooter or third person with or without other flags like crosshairs map markers or w/e.

Once they finalize the server browser with noticeable flag icons for different server options this should be easy to choose a server for the best experience.

They already have Hardcore servers now that are First Person only and as was said just above if that's the way you want to play it they would have to Block 3rd party VOIP because that adds an un=realistic aspect to the game

In real life you have much better sense of awareness you know how close walls are behind you you can peek around corners third person is the easiest way to do this. Its not like you can shoot at people without peeking out a little bit.

osb added a subscriber: osb.May 8 2016, 2:08 PM
osb added a comment.Feb 6 2014, 3:06 PM

CLOSE IT. 3PP:OFF Server exists now...


deewd22 added a subscriber: deewd22.May 8 2016, 2:08 PM

If the devs could reduce or delete the "shaking" while moving in 1st person I would be a 1st person only player, but like it is at the moment I cant play longer then half an hour in 1st person(Same was with Arma 2 for me). I´m getting sick of the motion while moving around.(Like reading while you are inside of a driving car).

I don´t like 3rd person because it does not feel real and gives some real unfair advantages like described many times in this thread. But I have no other choice if I want to play properly for longer then half an hour

I agree, that's why I'm still hoping for 1st person only servers. Let the nubs have their unfair advantage in their own servers.

You can choose, so keep your choice.

I realise that there are First Person only servers now. I´m very happy that these came up, i´m not sure if it was because I put up this thread. But atleast they are there now. So let´s enjoy them, or not. Your choice.

lipek added a comment.Jan 8 2014, 12:18 AM

deewd22: turn a headbob slider to minimum in the game settings.

Thats why we are given the choice to play only in first person on some servers. It might cater towards some people to not have 3PP, but that doesn't mean they have to preach it.

Real life you see 180 Degrees. (20/20) It's impossible to recreate 180 Degrees in a game without increasing the FOV, which if you did, the game looks weird.
So, having 3rd person replaces your 75/90 Degrees you see in-game.

Yes it's a little over-powered, you can see over walls, but still..

It's got more advantages than disadvantages.


CLOSE IT. 3PP:OFF Server exist now...


I suppose you'd also like the game to somehow block 3rd party VOIP programs like TeamSpeak as well because it's unfair?

This is not an issue because it is server specific.

sheLLHD added a subscriber: sheLLHD.May 8 2016, 2:08 PM

CLOSE IT. 3PP:OFF Server exist now...


I'm all for realism. However this game is going to the masses and there are plenty of less hardcore players who will simply stop playing if they can't have the crutches that they've grown accustomed to.

Furthermore their is an abundance of servers that disable third person which removes your disadvantage. I never have a problem finding a large choice to choose from.

Third-person is an important thing to some players, and a bunch of Let's Players who helped the community expand.

Finally the suggestions section is probably more suitable for posts like this which are not bugs and are completely intended. However one of the best possible middle-grounds have already been met.

I think the same, and the best solution is what you say about hardcore servers, that way people that enjoy forcing everyone a first person view and knowing it¡'s a fair game for everyone will enter those servers, others just go to another server! I think it's great

Belbo added a subscriber: Belbo.May 8 2016, 2:08 PM
Belbo added a comment.Jan 18 2014, 4:33 PM

I'm highly in favor of removing 3rd person-view. Not because it's a question of realism or not, but because it deprives players from an immerse experience, in my opinion.
Yes, I know that fps's aren't giving you the same sensations as the real world does. Yes, I know that the 1st person-movement is kind of chunky right now.
But the 1st person in DayZ (and Arma-games in general) is a limitation that adds indefinitely to the experience. I'd like to compare it to shortage of resources in other games: Imagine a strategy game where the developers tend to give you all resources right from the start. Yes, you could play it and yes, it may even be funny for some time. But by limiting your resources, they offer you a possibility to struggle, to overbear. And that is the experience that should be made.

DayZ is game about struggle, about being immersed into a massive game world. 3rd person is the opposite of that.

I think a general regulation for official servers to be 1st person-only, with some exceptions, would offer players a great deal more enjoyment, if they'd be willing to take the risk and move out of their comfort zone.