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Maniphest T161166

AIs fail to obey a move order when a "sub_leader" is "stuck"
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Description

This is an old bug, reported on BI forum or mentioned as ancillary issue in other ticket.

If 2 players are joining (at start or JIP) on same vanilla weapon squad (group of 8), one player as leader, one player as marksman (not tested with others), the 6 AIs will now regroup on marksman at the leader global move order, then stay at marksman position whatever the leader's move order could be.

IMPORTANT: the move order must concern all units of the group. If individually ordered, there is no issue for other units than stuck one(s).

This problem seems to be ancillary because usually MP players barely play this configuration.... but I guess a far deeper issue due to the way subordinates obey orders. As other example, if your AI group (no second player here, so in SP as well) is spread on map and you order a move (as rally point or else), the AIs start to regroup themselves (on 2 or 4) no matter the distance separating them! So, if you want some efficiency, you need to order all AIs independently. IMHO, it's a waste, weird logic stuck somewhere in FSMs. (2nd ticket?)

Thanks for reading (and testing)

Details

Severity
Major
Resolution
Open
Reproducibility
Always
Operating System
Windows 10 x64
Category
AI Issues
Steps To Reproduce

in MP preview, just run a blue squad of 8 (vanilla weapon squad). All playable (or at least leader + marksman)

  • play in MP : 1 as leader , 1 as marksman.
  • or in SP: block the marksman by incapacitating it or surrounding it by fences (no move possible)

as soon as marksman is player (JIP or not) the AIs (so not played in group) will follow marksman and will not obey to leader anymore (move orders are skipped *)

or.... if this nbr4 unit (marksman) is stuck, some units (all in vanilla weapons squads) will rally it, no matter the move order of the leader.

  • more exactly, each order leads to the AI rallying the marksman (even if he's unconscious). To confirm, you can test 1st player as marksman, 2nd JIP as leader. All orders gives this weird result. 
Additional Information

See also this old post on forum (for video. Initially I thought it was due to an unconscious broken state, but it's wider):

https://forums.bohemia.net/forums/topic/215411-vanilla-weapons-squad-tl-player-orders-are-broken-by-jip-on-marksman/

Event Timeline

PiepMGI created this task.Oct 4 2021, 5:09 PM
LSValmont added a comment.Oct 7 2021, 2:37 AM

This could be a pretty big issue. Does it happen 100% of the time under those conditions?

PiepMGI added a comment.Oct 7 2021, 6:03 PM

Yes. That's what reproducibility: "always" means. It takes 1 min (but 2 PC or sessions) for testing with 2 players.

• soycara added a subscriber: • soycara.Dec 9 2021, 11:04 AM
This comment was removed by BIS_fnc_KK.
PiepMGI added a comment.EditedApr 7 2022, 8:12 PM

This bug seems to be specific to Vanilla 8 unit weapons squads (BLU,RED,GREEN). I tested with 8 unit recon squads or Western Sahara 8 unit squad and I didn't see that.

The bug is repeatable for vanilla weapons squads but not deeply tested with all DLCs and mods.

I can affirm, in vanilla, if you play leader of "weapons squad" (any side, any faction), simple preview SP or else:

  • orders on AIs are valid til nbr 4 (marksman by default but you can change it) is unconscious or even played by a 2nd player;
  • in such cases, a whole group move order (all units selected, even nbr 4) leads to a regroup of all AIs on nbr4 position;
  • the way for moving AIs to a position ordered by leader is to move nbr4 independently.

Unconscious nbr4 AI or played nbr4 makes FSMs ruin move orders for the whole group (for a very old reason). In other words, whole group move orders can be broken by nbr4 status (played or unconscious AI).

I didn't dig on all squads in mods. I don't have any clue about why some groups of 8 are working fine but these weapons squads not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVKyyzx1D7Y

When I did the video, I made playable units because this bug is also present for nbr4 played by a 2nd player instead of make it unconscious. And, I set 3 units as unconscious by trigger alpha, but the bug is on nbr4 status only.

PiepMGI renamed this task from AIs fail to obey a move order when 2 players in their group to AIs fail to obey a move order when a "sub_leader" is "stuck".Apr 8 2022, 12:35 PM
PiepMGI updated the task description. (Show Details)
PiepMGI edited Steps To Reproduce. (Show Details)
PiepMGI added a comment.Apr 8 2022, 12:45 PM

Ok, seems to impact also mods and DLCs.

Tested deeper:

  • important: No matter the ranks in group, there is a "sub-leader" (second in command), perhaps more on heavy groups on which AIs will rally if a global move is ordered by the played leader
  • no matter the mod, the DLC or the way you build the group (edited group or made by "group to" links;
  • No matter the way the "sub-leader" is stuck (or far), these units will rally on it.

So it's something coming from engine, probably not linked with group config (ranks, relative positions, factions... no matter with that), but this feature can ruin a global (whole group) move as far as these "sub-leader(s)" are far or stuck or even unconscious.
As request, Devs please, disable this feature, let played leader decide where AIs must move!

PiepMGI added a comment.Jul 15 2022, 11:52 AM

This bug is not corrected.

Arma vanilla
One squad
One unit (marksman here) stuck
And this mess:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgcMEkcOPKo

PiepMGI updated the task description. (Show Details)Jan 5 2023, 6:44 AM
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