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AI vehicle crew gunners are too quick/too good at aiming
Acknowledged, WishlistPublic


This is bothering me since OFP times. I believe, this is a major gameplay factor.

AI vehicle crew gunners behave more like sentry guns rather than humans operating machines. They aim with turrets too flawlessly and quickly. They just aim wherever ordered in seconds without any error. This makes vehicle guns very over-powered compared to the real world situations.

In real world situations, targeting with turrets takes considerably much more time than in the game:

  1. a crew commander has to describe a position of a target to a gunner. This takes some time (misunderstanding, confirmation etc). This could be easily simulated in the game with a random delay in targeting.
  1. the gunner has to aim the turret at the target. He has to do that by operating a joystick, a gamepad or similar button/sticks-based controller. That means he is naturally going to do some mistakes. He is going to miss the target a bit at first (especially if the target is moving), moving the turret a few centimetres again, shoot, compensate, shoot etc. The closer and faster the target is the more difficult the aiming at non-lockable targets gets.

Now if you look at the turret-aiming in the game you will see that AI turret gunners are perfectly able to destroy a whole squad even in CQB (!) if they "knowabout" it. They aim in seconds and shoots without any error at all. They are basically perfect aimbots - terminator-like sentry guns. This make APCs and tanks incredibly overpowered in most armour-vs-infantry situations in the game. Add slow, hesitant AI AT infantry and lack of camouflage and you have a perfect receipt for frustration.

Please, consider changing this in the foreseeable future. Thank you. {F25503}


Legacy ID
AI Aiming / Shooting
Steps To Reproduce
  1. run the repro mission
  1. watch the Marid's turret sentry-gun-like precision and supernatural reactions
  1. count the bodies and seconds passed
  1. watch some real-world footage (Syria city combat is a good material for this) and then recall this in-game situation
Additional Information

Now, before anyone in the comments section start to write about proper infantry tactics against vehicles, I would like to clarify that I am aware of it. This problem, however, is a fundamental AI problem that often makes real-world tactics impossible to use. Thank you for understanding.

Event Timeline

Bouben edited Steps To Reproduce. (Show Details)Jan 31 2015, 11:05 AM
Bouben edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
Bouben set Category to AI Aiming / Shooting.
Bouben set Reproducibility to Always.
Bouben set Severity to None.
Bouben set Resolution to Open.
Bouben set Legacy ID to 882209937.May 7 2016, 8:12 PM
Bouben edited a custom field.
Bumgie added a subscriber: Bumgie.May 7 2016, 8:12 PM

This also applies to Crew served weapons or "static" weapons. Atleast partially.

Bouben added a subscriber: Bouben.May 7 2016, 8:12 PM

Yes, thank you for addition.

Bohemia added a subscriber: Bohemia.May 7 2016, 8:12 PM

OK but there is some factors about it. First, not all nations uses that strategy (targer, targer aqquired, fire), second FCS is calculating all for you, you should only aim and fire, i'm doind this even faster than AI sometimes. But you are right about AI aiming, they are like robots, specialy against infantry (they missing sometimes if trying to take down tank vs. tank). Their skills in using mg, smg and pistol is not realistic, they killing enemy with 1-3 shots and most often hiting headshots. Its releated to AI Aiming problem. Most of players is using mods, i think BI will let this as it is and players will allways using mods. I am using ASR_AI3 - i can recomend this mod as the best, you can set ai dispersion manually in config files, moreover modify ai behavior, spotting, and generall skills. At least untill BI wil do something about it

Bouben added a comment.Feb 1 2015, 1:22 PM

Thank you, vlad 8011,

of course I am talking mainly about gunners targeting soft non-lockable targets. Also, there is a lot of crew manned weapons in the game (without any real-life aim-assist systems) that are suffering from the same problems I have described.

I guarantee, you would not be able to do what AI is doing in the repro mission (not in first person anyway). Have you tried it? If no, please take a look and you will know what I mean.

Also, this is a fundamental, gameplay AI problem and, IMO, this is no place to argument by mods. This should be fixed in vanilla.

Thank you.

EDIT: Also, this is a problem exclusive to crew manned weapons in the game. Infantry units do not have this behaviour.

PiepMGI added a subscriber: PiepMGI.May 7 2016, 8:12 PM

Agree with you Bouben. Don't stack mods on mods. FPS fall guaranteed.

For better performance especially don't even use CBA or AGM. Both drop FPS down considerably.

Bouben added a comment.Apr 2 2015, 8:01 AM

Please, guys, don't go off topic in this ticket. This ticket is not about mods and their performance. This ticket is about an AI problem. Thank you.

oukej added a comment.Apr 2 2015, 6:56 PM

Thank you for the report!