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The list of actions that AI not able to do, but should do.
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Dear developers. Today, the AI-soldiers doesn't use a lot of detail in the game.
This is sad, not only for me.
I have compiled a list of actions that are necessary in my opinion and it can be really added to the game, because it is not fantastic.
I know, in order bots used it all, requires certain conditions.
For this reason, I have made these simple prerequisites also, you can use these ideas, improving them after.

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  1. AI NEVER SHOOTS IN THE INFANTRY FROM MISSILE LAUNCHER.

In the game there are Anti-Personel Missiles, but the AI under any conditions will not shoot at infantry. The AI does not use its advantage and it looks bad. Also sometimes in the map no any enemy vehicles and the AI are have many launcher-systems on your back.
Under certain conditions, each AT-bot, also should be able shoot in the enemy infantry, when the infantry hiding in houses or behind the rocks, walls, or other shelters. Today AT-soldiers bots carry this weaponry and never do not use it, In this case the fatigue system only just make the this bot is more tired, and in the this case the carrying a missile weapon systems no have sense.

Сondition for AI make it:
Anti-personnel missiles should be used also as primary weapons.
For Anti-Tank weapons: If in radius "X", more than "Y-time" is not present any enemy vehicles, then the bot always should use Missile launcher against infantry, which is in shelter.
The value "X" can be for example 400 meters.

The value "Y-time" can be for example 5-8 min.

  1. AI VERY RARE USE HAND GRENADES, ALMOST NEVER.

Very seldom, but again why!? Very rarely I see the throwing executed by the bot! The bot must use the throwing more often and for longer distances. Especially in those moments when the enemy is inside buildings or for any cover. Often the bot uses recharge of primary weapon, directly under enemy fire. Before recharge, this bot can make a throw grenades.

Сondition for AI make it:
If the enemy is inside the building, and distance to the enemy < "X" meters then bot should always throw a grenade in the window.
Or if the enemy is behind a wall or a fence and distance to the enemy < "X" meters, then bot should try throw a grenade via enemy shelter.
The value "X" can be the maximum range of a grenade throw, for example 20-25 meters.

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  1. AI NOT ABLE USE MINES, WHICH AT THEM ARE IN THE BAGS.

The commander under certain conditions should give a command for mine deploying if in its group there is a sapper. Note! This item requires the implementation of my paragraph № 15(see below) and there is nothing complicated.

Сondition for AI make it:
If most soldiers of the AI-squad is killed and in this squad is present sapper, then the AI-commander must try to use stealth tactics and must give the command to deploy the mines and imperceptibly to step back by "X" meters, causing the enemy moving forward.
The value "X" can be any distance, for example 30 meters.

--

  1. AI NOT ABLE USE STATIC WEAPONRY, WHICH AT THEM ARE IN THE BAGS.

The bot-commander never not uses the mortar-group or any static-weaponry group in the squad, for deploying of this weaponry in the battle.
The commander, under certain conditions should give the command for use of a mortar or static automatic grenade launcher or static machine gun.
Today we do not have this.

Сondition for AI make it:
If the group bots have a rocket mortar, and enemy detected and the distance to the enemy > "X", then the commander tries to deploy mortars.
Every two or four minutes, the commander ordered to dismantle the mortar and to deploy it in a different location (within a not big radius "Y")
In this case, any congestions of enemy infantry which are not using movement more than 2 minutes can be the targets.
The value "X" can be any distance, for example 700 meters
The value "Y" can be any distance, for example 70 meters

--

  1. AI NOT ABLE USE LASER SIGHTS.

The bots not uses aiming via laser sights, never.
The smart bot must be able to decide to use this independently, without additional scripting.
May be possible for activation/deactivation this devices at AI, probably commander can use special command in actions menu, but this command does not exist. BIS, also you can tie this ability to the battle modes. For example Danger mode - laser should be used, Stealth mode - not should be used never.

Сondition for AI make it:
Such a aiming is not effective in large range.
If a bot has a laser sight and distance to the target < "X" meters, then the bot activates the laser sight.
If the distance to the target is more than "X" meters, then the bot does not use the laser sight.
The value "X" can be any distance, for example 15 meters, because such a aiming is not effective in large range.

--

  1. AI NOT ABLE USE FLASHLIGHT.

The bots not uses flashlight, never. The smart bot must be able to decide to use this independently, without additional scripting.
May be possible for activation/deactivation this devices at AI, probably commander can use special command in actions menu, but this command does not exist. BIS, also you can tie this ability to the battle modes. For example Danger mode - flashlight should be used, Stealth mode - not should be used never.

Сondition for AI make it:
If a bot has a flashlight and does not see an location of the enemy then it uses it, but only this flashlight are used only away from stationary lighting in the game and no more than "X" second.

Also The flashlight can be used for blinding the enemy, if the distance to the enemy < 4 meters for example.

  1. AI NOT ABLE USE SMOKE HAND-GRENADES. (WAS SUBSEQUENTLY ADDED!)

The bots not uses smoke grenades, never. The smart bot must be able to decide to use this independently, without additional scripting.

Сondition for AI make it:
a) If AI squad under fire and within one minute 40-50% soldiers of this squad is killed or wounded, then bot use smoke grenades for for hiding.
b) If the group of bots uses penetration into a building, where located is an enemy, then the AI-bots use smoke grenades inside.

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  1. AI NOT REACT TO CONTACT DURING TREATMENT, INVENTORY, REPAIR, RELOADING.

Wounded bot or subordinate bot never does not react to you during any contact. When you get close to your bot from his squad, for to make him a treatment or to get into his backpack, then this bot does not react to you.
In the this case and under certain conditions (!not danger situation), this bot, should always should stop moving or should stop any action! Always the player's character does not complete medical treatment, or to take the thing out of a backpack, because this bot doesn't stop and goes away.

Сondition for AI make it:
If the bot is not in position of "danger"(!because are no enemies nearby), then, always this bot should stop moving or any actions (If human-player uses contact with this bot).

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  1. AI NOT TRY PENETRATE INTO BUILDING, IF ENEMY SHOOTS FROM THIS BUILDING AND DON'T USE BUILDINGS AS COVER FOR SHOOTING.

The bots do not penetrate into the any building, if a enemy shoots out of this building long time and I never seen that the bot was able to climb to the second floor Why?
Very often the my player character shoots from the second floor by his enemies, who are at the bottom of the building on the ground. But never bot is not trying to come up to my back, using trudge up the stairs to the second floor.
And why AI is not able to shoot from buildings? Unfortunately today, AI is very weak inside any buildings.

Сondition for AI make it:
If the enemy of more "X" time located inside building, then the bot should try penetrate into this building.
Or if the enemy shoots from the second floor more than "X"-time, then some bots should try to penetrate into the building and to get to the second floor.

The value "X" can be for example 3-5 minutes.

  1. AI OF UAV OPERATOR CLASS, NOT ABLE ACTIVATE ANY DRONE.

I think that every bot of UAV-Operator class, minimum must be able to use the recon (Darter) which he carries in his backpack.

Сondition for AI make it:
If the operator have in a backpack Darter-drone, and this squad is under fire from a long-range distance and the this attack distance to the enemy > "X" meters, then the operator should launch to the sky reconnaissance drone.
In this case the combat efficiency(for example weapons accuracy) of allied bots, within radius from UAV operator, should be increased (for examle by 15-20%), but only until Darter is in flight, because the location of enemy will be visible from flying drone.

Also UAV operator must be able to activate any of the allied attack-drone within a limited radius around ("Y"-distance) (if this operator is in fight mode). And this activated drone always should try attack human player.

The value "X" can be any distance, for example 300 meters.
The value "Y" can be any distance, for example 250 meters.

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  1. AI NOT ABLE USE ROTATION IN THE LYING POSITION.

The bot is not able to use the tumble in both side, lying on the ground, as this may be done by human player. It gives the human player an advantage. The bot should be able to do the same.

Сondition for AI make it:
If a bot is shooting in the laying position on the ground and during this moment the level of his injuries increases rapidly (this means that he is under fire), then this bot should do tumble in the any side, before continuing his shooting from a laying position.
Also two-three tumble can be done before recharge amunition in the laying position.

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  1. AI DOES NOT REACT TO A GRENADE NEXT TO HIM.

The bot never doesn't react to a grenade thrown at him.
The AI does not want to survive? Why is he so stupid?
Even in the primitive gameplay of Call of Duty, I've seen bots trying to escape, if the grenade right next to them. In our case, we have a stupid bot in the game-simulator. This should not be...

Сondition for AI make it:
If soldier, which threw a grenade was detected by the bot, then this bot should try escape the radius "X" around the grenade!
Or even if a soldier, which threw a grenade, is not detected by bot, but this grenade falls very close to this bot (within radius "Y"), then this bot(if this bot not injured), also should try to escape the radius "X" around the grenade.

The value "X"(escape of explosion) can be for example 6-8 meters.
The value "Y"(detection of nearest grenade) can be for example 4-5 meters.

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  1. AI NOT ABLE USE REPAIR. (WAS SUBSEQUENTLY ADDED!)

Today, carrying of heavy tools (note! this is really a big weight) in backpacks of bots don't make sense. The bot-commander, under certain conditions, should able to use the repair command. It is very simple and there's nothing complicated.

Сondition for AI make it:
If any squad has soldier with repair-tools and if this bot-mechanic is not in the position of "danger"(!because are no enemies nearby) and within a radius "X" is allied and damaged vehicle, then the bot-commander of this squad should be ordered to repair this damaged vehicle.
The value "X"(repair radius) can be for example 100-150 meters.

--

  1. AI NOT ABLE TO USE SELF TREATMENT, WITHOUT ORDER.

Probably the only one action, that smart AI should use without an order, but under certain conditions it is self-treatment. Because this is a normal reaction to the mentally healthy human. The medic in the squad may not be always available during the battle or even killed.
A wounded soldier can endure the wound and expect the order of self-treatment, but how much time!?

Сondition for AI make it:
If bot is wounded and this bot is not in the position of "danger" (!because are no enemies nearby) then this bot should heal himself immediately, even without an order.

Or if the wounded bot is still in the position of "danger" but after "X"- seconds, this bot does not receive treatment from squad and around within radius "Y" no enemy units, then this bot should to find any shelter and heal himself, even without an order.

The value "X"(delay time) can be for example 100-140 sec.

The value "Y"(danger radius) can be for example 20-30 meters.

  1. AI IS NOT ABLE TO EFFECTIVELY BYPASS MINES (!Bouncing mine).

The bot is not able to effectively bypass the mines, especially if this bot is military sapper! Many times I gave the command to lay a mine and in 30% of cases the bot itself exploded at its mine. Nonsense.
Also I have seen many times how the bots were not able to bypass the mines, if they have in the squad a minesweeper or mine-detector.

If the squad has a mine-Detector, then this crap should not happen.
Each mine should have a "personal avoidance radius" and each mine-detector should have a "personal detection radius".
Thus, inside allied detection the any bot, should be able to work around any mines! There's nothing complicated...

  1. AI NOT ABLE TO STEP OVER SMALL OBSTACLES.

The bot is not able to step via small fence(V-button by default), as this may be done by human player. This feature complicates the movement of the AI in urban areas and gives the human player an advantage. The AI should be able to do the same.

Dear developers, as you can see there's nothing fantastically complex.
Please try this. If at least half of the this items will be implemented, then this will make the Arma3 much better.

Details

Legacy ID
2169262000
Severity
Feature
Resolution
Open
Reproducibility
N/A
Category
AI Issues
Additional Information

Thanks in advance!

Event Timeline

mickeymen edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
mickeymen set Category to AI Issues.
mickeymen set Reproducibility to N/A.
mickeymen set Severity to Feature.
mickeymen set Resolution to Open.
mickeymen set Legacy ID to 2169262000.May 7 2016, 7:07 PM

Updated, Added point 10.

i wont bother trying to argue EVERYTHING with you, so i will just assess part of the point 1.

Conventional army are not allowed to use rocket launchers or the sort against infantry, because of both they would lose a precious rocket against something that can be killed with bullets, and if its against a construction, they would be destroying civilian property that may house civilians inside just for the fact of making a way.

AI can use laser sights and flashlights. You must enable them with a script command. With the Laser Sights, they'll only enable them in a fight.

The UAV or Drones are controlled on they're own when a player doesn't take control them. The Greyhawk will shoot and move on its own, the turrets ( Mk30A and the like ) will fire on its own... They are autonomous...

Don't AI stop moving if the leader orders them to get support from the player?

gutsnav added a subscriber: gutsnav.May 7 2016, 7:07 PM

The AI are pretty good with light discipline in combat situations. They only turn on the flashlight in close quarters or to blind you, and use the laser only to "spot out" targets (Being you or friendlies).

"Conventional army are not allowed to use rocket launchers or the sort against infantry, because of both they would lose a precious rocket against something that can be killed with bullets, and if its against a construction, they would be destroying civilian property that may house civilians inside just for the fact of making a way."

Your argument is weak, because:

  1. War is always terrible because of the lack of rules! And war has only one rule - is effective destruction of the enemy!
  2. You talk about prohibition of shooting in the city, but if we spent fighting far from the city, in the forest or in the field, then the bots still will not use Missile weapon systems against infantry! On the battlefield will have no transport, but the bots silly to carry a heavy bag with missiles together with the grenade launcher and never use them! It will only make them tired! Why you need it!?
  3. You say that the use of these funds may be prohibited! But then why you as a human player is allowed to use Missile launcher everywhere, and players-bots are not allowed? You have the opportunity to shoot enemies, and the enemy can't do it! In this case, there is an imbalance!
  4. In any of world hostilities, since the beginning of the 20th century, always grenade launchers used against infantry, which is fortifications!

In this case we deal only with defect from developers. We have no deal with an interdiction for shooting in a city or for some other reason.

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"AI can use laser sights and flashlights. You must enable them with a script command. With the Laser Sights, they'll only enable them in a fight."

This requires additional scripting. I think that AI should not need this. He must use it yourself and very cunningly. I.e. Switching on and off it under certain conditions!

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"The UAV or Drones are controlled on they're own when a player doesn't take control them. The Greyhawk will shoot and move on its own, the turrets ( Mk30A and the like ) will fire on its own... They are autonomous..."

Yes, they are independent, but only then when they are activated.

  1. Place on the ground any UAV the device
  2. Place nearby UAV operator.
  3. Create fight

UAV operator will never activate it!

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"The AI are pretty good with light discipline in combat situations. They only turn on the flashlight in close quarters or to blind you, and use the laser only to "spot out" targets (Being you or friendlies)."

Don't know what you mean(

Ever heard of the geneva convention? and i dont mean that "its a rule". It would be a waste using rockets against constructions, same goes for the AI, dont complain that they dont use heavy weaponry, the AI wont just use everything they got against the only enemy you placed on the map, they never know how many enemies are there, so they will just use the right guns for the right time.

Does the Geneva Convention prevent people from using Missile Launchers on other humans? I know they banned flame throwers. Only people from groups like Somalian Pirates would fire an RPG at a human, they don't follow Geneva rules.

Anti infantry mines are also banned by the Geneva Convention, but they are present in the game,this is nonsense.

Again: war has only one rule - is effective destruction of the enemy!

I believe that ban only applies to some countries.

again, i meant that an army would not allow the use of such weapon as a rocket launcher to be wasted against just infantry

If the bots will start to use grenade launchers against me, the game will be much more interesting and more real.
Also the this bots will no longer tired.
I would add another effect contusion (ringing in the ears on 5-8 seconds) after getting into the any shelter or building, where can be hided human-player.
This variety to the game and tactics of shelter

some of these features are likely to come with ACE, about the GL, true, but not a big deal, they use them if you are in a lighly armored vehicle

z80cpu: Thank you for understanding and support! good luck not only to me, good luck to all Arma users, with the best artificial intelligence!)
I still hope that the developers will be able to add something.

Dr_Death:
When the game is predictable, then the game is not interesting.
Today, you and I know, that bots are never going to shoot you by using grenade launchers. It will be exactly! Never! This is similar to the behaviour of the robot, but not the human(
But when the game is not predictable, then it's more like real life. It is more interesting!
If the bot will be able, under certain conditions, to pick you using a grenade launcher, then you probably be able to feel it.
This fact would make the strategy of human player is more versatile/

Then maybe you should play with humans, bots cant never act like people, that would require too much work on the AI.

I like to use the EDITOR and create a mission.
Of course I understand this! The bot will never be as a man!
But, Developers can always try do behavior of the bot a similar on human behaviour.
What I say is not fantastic. In any popular shooter COD or BF bots able to do it and this can be easily done also in Arma, I'm sure.
Most likely in the list of targets no man.

Developers can even do the following.
For infantry use only light missile launchers (without Titan) and can even add anti-personnel fragmentation grenades, which are real!
See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RPG-7

For example TBG-7V,OG-7V,GSh-7VT warfare are used as anti-infantry!
It is a pity that in the game is not present a RPG-7(

As far as I remember, I've never seen BF AI throw a single grenade.
I wouldn't say COD AI is bad, but they seem to throw grenades whenever they feel like, doesn't matter how many enemies are there, they'll just throw one if they can't shoot the AI.

"It is a pity that in the game is not present a RPG-7"
The game takes place in 2035, which is why they have the newer RPG.

"As far as I remember, I've never seen BF AI throw a single grenade.
I wouldn't say COD AI is bad, but they seem to throw grenades whenever they feel like, doesn't matter how many enemies are there, they'll just throw one if they can't shoot the AI."

When I remember these games, I meant only the possibility to use the grenade launcher against infantry. Simple grenades, I did not mean.
Although it can be noted that in COD bots are much more likely to throw grenades! Also in COD there is a great opportunity to throw a grenade back, lifting it off the ground! This possibility also would decorate Arma, but that's another topic(

"The game takes place in 2035, which is why they have the newer RPG."

Man, don't be so naive! Such weapons as Classic RPG or all variations Classic AK (Kalash), will be used still than 100-150 years in the all fighting on the planet! Because it is cheap and reliable weapon and it very much!
Even Nil Blomkamp knows about it.
See the movie "Elysium", where the action takes place in the year 2154, I am sure that this is can be real.
Such weapons in Arma should be armed rebels/

"When I remember these games, I meant only the possibility to use the grenade launcher against infantry."
Are you saying cod AI sometimes uses grenade launchers on their own?

"Man, don't be so naive! Such weapons as Classic RPG or all variations Classic AK (Kalash), will be useds till than 100-150 years in the all fighting on the planet! Because it is cheap and reliable weapon and it very much!
Even Nil Blomkamp knows about it.
See the film Elysium, where the action takes place in the year 2154, I am sure that this is can be real. "

Trust me, no real army will be touching that old thing in 2035.
Not even independent armies.

"Are you saying cod AI sometimes uses grenade launchers on their own?"
Of course! Remember trilogy such as Modern Warfare, or Black Ops!
I remember that bots used against infantry RPG-7.

"Trust me, no real army will be touching that old thing in 2035.
Not even independent armies"
Well my friend, let's not argue.

There are AI mods for that, check out kAI mod for arma 2/3

Today I do not know of any serios mods.
Our conversation is not about mods.
We want to Arma3 better!

Updated, Added point 11.

Just so you know, the point 11 is the "advanced stances" and yes, i have seen the bots do them

"Just so you know, the point 11 is the "advanced stances" and yes, i have seen the bots do them"
Sorry, I did not understand you completely. You saw that the bot did it?
I've never seen this before

I thought AP mines were banned by the Ottawa Treaty, not Geneva Convention? After all, the US and Russia are both not countries participating in said treaty, so it makes sense.

Also, it's worth noting COD has no actual targets for those rocket launchers besides infantry, but Arma most certainly does. I'll give you credit though, the mini-Titan can be loaded with anti-personnel missiles, as can the RPG-42 Alamut. As for the PCML and full size Titan, no. Nevermind that under no circumstance would you fire a AA missile into a building, it's wasteful if such an enemy does come and you are unprepared. Also, if you feel frustrated with AI subordinates not doing things, you can actually switch to them without even setting them as playable and do it as them.

Oh yeah, it was the Ottawa treaty.

AI leaders, under certain circumstances, should order AI units or players to assemble static weapons. Unless there's a script command to do so.

Yes, i did saw the bots after being shot go in the lower prone to cover. Although i had the "smart firefights" addons that made the AI less aimbot-er

You discuss only the first point and the last?
Can you read the other items?

Well the AI controlling drones is pretty...
useless...

Probably it is useless, only for those who does not create missions using the editor.

Its useless for mission editors because we can just waypoint the drone it's self, animate AI to make it look like it's using a drone if we want.
Although, it would be nice if a player could order a UAV Operator to take control of a drone.

No it's not useless. Only two examples.

  1. If you place UAV operator of any enemy squad, then this enemy UAV operator could use reconnaissance drone, through this increasing the combat efficiency of his squad (for example weapon accuracy). You, in turn, would destroy this reconnaissance drone. The multiplier of "weapon accuracy" should be increased by 15-20% with every activated drone, which will raise into the sky any bot of UAV-operator class.
  1. You attack the enemy base. This enemy base has two not activated attack-drones. You should have time to destroy this two drones before activation, otherwise, any UAV operator activates them and will use against you!

But they can simply be achieved with a little bit of scripting and waypoints.

"You attack the enemy base. This enemy base has two not activated attack-drones. You should have time to destroy this two drones before activation, otherwise, any UAV operator activates them and will use against you! "

Simply with scripting, You can wait or sleep for a while then make the UAV move with waypoints or with 'move', 'doMove' or any of the commands like that. if it was hardcoded into the engine for AI to automatically take control of drones, the player wouldn't get little to no time at all, to destroy the drones.

" If you place UAV operator of any enemy squad, then this enemy UAV operator could use reconnaissance drone, through this increasing the combat efficiency of his squad (for example weapon accuracy). You, in turn, would destroy this reconnaissance drone. The multiplier of "weapon accuracy" should be increased by 15-20% with every activated drone, which will raise into the sky any bot of UAV-operator class."

If you really want to do this, why don't you put a reconnaissance drone as a group member for your enemies?

Probably you can do this via scripting, but in this case you will not get the feeling that have a confrontation with a smart enemy.
point № 10 not a priority on my list. It can cause for thought.
I think points № 1,2,4,8,9 are more important.

Updated. Added point 12.

The AI should use better cover, they hardly hide behind walls even if a leader uses the take cover command. They should use buildings windows and the like. Rather then just laying down in the middle of the road.

The AI bots should always react to a grenade next to him! Yes, how is he going to do, may be depend on conditions. I suggested the easiest option is "try to escape from explosive radius", but even it, will look much more realistic!

If the desire, Developers can make the more prerequisites and more actions to all AI bots.

th3cr0w added a subscriber: th3cr0w.May 7 2016, 7:07 PM

AI Commander are incapable of using their optics to spot enemy units.
e.g. try standing silent near a tank but not in front of the gun, they won't notice u ever.

I agree with most of these. One AI feature you left out which I think is critical is the ability for AI to rearm themselves from nearby - and I stress nearby - ammo sources like dead bodies and crates / vehicles.

"AI Commander are incapable of using their optics to spot enemy units.
e.g. try standing silent near a tank but not in front of the gun, they won't notice u ever."
Badly understood. Please explain more accuracy.

"One AI feature you left out which I think is critical is the ability for AI to rearm themselves from nearby - and I stress nearby - ammo sources like dead bodies and crates / vehicles."
Yes, this ability could also decorate the game I think. Maybe I will add it later.

"AI Commander are incapable of using their optics to spot enemy units.
e.g. try standing silent near a tank but not in front of the gun, they won't notice u ever."

Do you mean that AI commanders don't us binoculars or laser designators?
Or they don't use thermal optics/visions?

Sry, I meant AI [b]vehicle[/b] Commander.

AI as a vehicle Commander doesn't search the area with their optics.

Personally I think this ticket is more a feature request than a specific issue with AI.

Some additional AI capabilities which you left out - which are really important are:

  1. AI repair vehicle (if they have a toolkit and are capable)
  2. AI heal teammates
  3. AI rearm themselves (I mentioned above)

As far as number 3 is concerned this is far more than "a decorate the game" feature as you mentioned. If AI run out of ammo they are obviously useless.

RickOShay I agree!
about item 2. I've seen sometimes(not often) the enemy bots treated each other. But the bot itself did not treat never!
Self treatment also necessary to do, i think.
All Items I will formulate later and add it to my list.

AI rearm and repair from other groups vehicles if the group leader is an AI. Also, AI Leaders tell AI to heal themselves or a tells a medic(or anyone with FAKs) to help them.

Updated, Added point 13 and 14.

Humay added a subscriber: Humay.May 7 2016, 7:07 PM
Humay added a comment.Sep 7 2014, 7:23 PM

Let me take a look at this...

  1. I don't think that this is a good idea. It would be unrealistic if the AI knew that there were no vehicles arround. And if they didn't and used missiles against infantry they would have no way to defend themselves against the tank that may or may not come over the hill in a few minutes. In a combat situation where you don't know what the enemy will throw at you you don't want to use to many resources. And in arma the AI can't know what will attack them.

  1. I agree that the AI should use grenades more often, but remember that with standart loadouts you only have ~2. I rarely use grenades myself due to the fact that I don't know if they might come in handy later, but otherwise I agree.

  1. I must disagree. The AI has no way to see the current situation it is in. You don't want mines blowing up your own troops who came to reinforce you. Normally you only use mines to defend a predetermined position. Everything else would be suicidal.

  1. Yes. It would be great if AI used mortars and deployed weaponry. An extra condition should be that the AI can't have an active movement order.

  1. / 6. Actually, AI does use Flashlights when in combat mode. I don't know about laser sights though.

  1. When under heavy fire AI should use smoke grenades. Yes, that would be great.

  1. No. It would be annoying if the AI always stopped if you were to close. As a team leader you can order them to stop, and otherwise you don't really need them on a regular basis.

  1. Yes. Bots should use houses, especially when in combat mode.

  1. Drone operators shouldn't be able to use all drones on the map. It would interfere with the player. If Drone operators deployed their drone the drone should be grouped with the group. It could just fly above the group and help spotting. No increase in accuracy, that would be unrealistic. Just let the drone spot enemies.

  1. Not really worth it. It's not a huge deal, and the bots just can crawl normally.

  1. They should react to detected grenades, the hard part is to determine when bots "see" grenades. It is not that easy.

  1. No. Unless the vehicle is a member of the group it should not be repaired for multiple reasons. It would break many existing missions, delay groups, etc. Not worth it.

  1. No. AI shouldn't do that. If the need to patch up you can order them to do so. It is safer to first take care ot any hostiles. Otherwise you might be in a situation were you need that AT-gunner to take down that tank right now and he thinks that is better to patch himself up first. If you want them to be healthy, tell them.

I agree with Humay's points.

My friends, Before I made all the points I was assured in that it is possible! All this items will make the game better. Please read carefully.

--

About shoot in the infantry from grenade launcher(point 1):

"I don't think that this is a good idea."

Today the inability of the AI to use grenade launchers in unusual situations can be explained only a weak artificial intellect!
Note!!! If the bot will never use this attack, then it will not be similar to human behavior, it will be similar only on a primitive programming of AI. The player must have the feeling that playing against a human, but not against the robot! Today, for me this item is the most important!

"It would be unrealistic if the AI knew that there were no vehicles arround."

Why the bot does not know about the presence of enemy vehicles around him?
Experienced soldiers could hear the movement of enemy vehicles or to see it from afar!
If transport is not present around, then the bot should use grenade launchers against infantry.
This may be not immediately, but after some amount of time!

"And if they didn't and used missiles against infantry they would have no way to defend themselves against the tank that may or may not come over the hill in a few minutes." "And in arma the AI can't know what will attack them."

And if the tank does not come in a few minutes? What then?
Why soldiers should to carry the extra weight?
Again! In this case, bot can make a delay before using grenade launchers against infantry.
For example, if the within radius "X" no enemy transport more than "Y" minutes, then the bot can use the grenade launcher against infantry!
Then it would be like the realism!
Also in the squad may be soldiers with additional ammunition! In this case, the probability of a shots against infantry can be increased.

--

About AI- mine laying(point 3):

"I must disagree. The AI has no way to see the current situation it is in. You don't want mines blowing up your own troops who came to reinforce you. Normally you only use mines to defend a predetermined position. Everything else would be suicidal."

For high quality game your arguments are very weak! Note. Each minelayer has a mine-detector!
And if the mine-detector is in the squad, then all allied soldiers should be able to bypass all the mines around!
Each activated mine, must have avoidance radius. This is elementary!

--

About AI-lighting(point 6):

"Actually, AI does use Flashlights when in combat mode"

If I see it, then it will be a surprise for me!

--

About AI-reaction durring contact(point 8):

"It would be annoying if the AI always stopped if you were to close. As a team leader you can order them to stop, and otherwise you don't really need them on a regular basis."

And what to do with wounded bot? If wounded, the bot does not stop during treatment, then it's stupid bot, and even you know about it!

--

About AI UAV-Operations(point 10):

"Drone operators shouldn't be able to use all drones on the map. It would interfere with the player. If Drone operators deployed their drone the drone should be grouped with the group. It could just fly above the group and help spotting. No increase in accuracy, that would be unrealistic. Just let the drone spot enemies."

May be. However, today, we do not have any, even any simple actions of the bot of UAV-Operator class.

--

About AI-tumble in both side, lying on the ground(point 11):

"Not really worth it. It's not a huge deal, and the bots just can crawl normally."

Yes, this is not a very important detail, but looks very strange!
Why the human player does this and the bot not does?
The human player always should feel that he is playing against the smart soldier.

--

About AI-reaction to a grenade thrown at him(point 12):

"They should react to detected grenades, the hard part is to determine when bots "see" grenades. It is not that easy."

To see always not necessarily! If the grenade fell near the bot, he can hear her.

--

About AI repair of vehicles(point 13):

"Unless the vehicle is a member of the group it should not be repaired for multiple reasons. It would break many existing missions, delay groups, etc. Not worth it."

May be, but if the vehicle is a not member of the group!? I think In this case it needs repair...

--

About AI-self treatment(point 14):

"AI shouldn't do that. If the need to patch up you can order them to do so. It is safer to first take care ot any hostiles. Otherwise you might be in a situation were you need that AT-gunner to take down that tank right now and he thinks that is better to patch himself up first. If you want them to be healthy, tell them."

May be it is not necessary, but only in the "danger" position!
If bot is wounded and this bot is not in the position of "danger", then always self-treatment is necessary, because it is a realistic behavior of normal human!

Updated, Added point 15.

PiepMGI added a subscriber: PiepMGI.May 7 2016, 7:07 PM

Please don't mix up Rules of Engagement and ability to fire something, somewhere, sometimes. Arma is a game with plenty of possible scenarios.
For example, sometimes friendly kills leads to mission lost, but usually your rating is downed. That depends on scripting.

The AI (or bot) skill is enhanced by FSM, but it's not "basic". First of all, it seems important to be able to use all possibilities of the weapons carried by unit. That implies if a rocket can destroy or pierce a covert place, this rocket must be fired if there is a threat to kill, regardless of what could be "colateral consequences", but with respect of present combat mode.
Conditions like "presence of friendly unit", "presence of civilian unit" or even "presence of captive unit" is another problem available for any weapon.
Conditions of firing according to environment is "just" ROE's and could be written in several books. FSM or scripts are made for that.

You suggest to add all this and more, using scripting?
Why complicate the game for simple users? Most players do not know how to create scripts, and many have no desire to do it, because it requires a large amount of time...

PS:I think that artificial intelligence in the game should be versatile, and similar to human behavior initially, without additional effort for the player.

Not exactly,
I agree to enhance AI possibilities for using all weapons available, and why not, "choosing" the one that will have the better effect.
But, rules of engagement (combat mode), is another problem. A 2nd layer in Arma engine. It already exists "combat mode" "behavior" and "skill". Not sure you can easily do better. Mixing the 2 layers (abilities and comportment) is probably possible but it leads to an expert system if you want to browse all the cases (i.e. firing a bullet or a missile if civilian in vicinity).
What i said is, Arma's engine could be improved, as you suggested, with better technical possibilities for AI. Some functions like "findcover" could be also better implemented.
But it seems to me, very difficult to improve drastically this engine, avoiding a "Rube Goldberg machine".
Scripting for a contextual scenario is a good solution. And players don't have to do that.

I agree with you for the content : i'd rather like a better engine than some comercial add-ons like "Karts". I'm not sure to understand this mix.

oukej added a comment.Jan 5 2015, 2:22 PM

Hey & thanks for the list of ideas.

I will quickly reply with some notes.

  1. AI NEVER SHOOTS IN THE INFANTRY FROM MISSILE LAUNCHER.
    • can be configured (and was like that in early Alpha), but it's better when the AI saves the valuable ammo for the real threats
  1. AI NOT ABLE USE LASER SIGHTS.
  2. AI NOT ABLE USE FLASHLIGHT.
    • better left out as an option for the designer but not autonomous AI behavior (you may not always want them to do it)
  1. AI OF UAV OPERATOR CLASS, NOT ABLE ACTIVATE ANY DRONE.
    • can be ruled out, not possible
  1. AI NOT ABLE USE REPAIR.
    • Already available. AI with repairing ability can be ordered by a group leader to repair an immobile vehicle that is assigned to the group (It won't repair friendly vehicles around the battlefield at random). AI with a repair (rearm/refuel/heal) vehicle and a SUPPORT waypoint assigned will be called in by friendly vehicles.
  1. AI NOT ABLE TO USE SELF TREATMENT, WITHOUT ORDER.

It is when it's its own leader. You don't take a poo unless the leader allows you to.

Leaving the rest unanswered for now. Please bear in mind that more autonomous AI != better AI. Some of the described actions are better left out as scripting commands or as modular options as they may not universally fit.

Thanks for the reply. Finally I got your attention.

"1. AI NEVER SHOOTS IN THE INFANTRY FROM MISSILE LAUNCHER.

  • can be configured (and was like that in early Alpha), but it's better when the AI saves the valuable ammo for the real threats"

It's sad for the player, in this case, the AI in the game is very predictable. Of course the AI should save valuable ammo for enemy vehicles, but I think only a certain amount of time. Sometimes there is no enemy vehicles. What then? If the enemy soldier is hiding inside the house and shoots from there, isn't it a real threat? I think that AI should use Missile Launcher and this a real behavour of human in the war.

For example, you can force the AI to use it, if the quantity of ammunition in the AI-squad > X number. I think, in this case every house where is the fire, must be equal to enemy vehicles.

"5. AI NOT ABLE USE LASER SIGHTS.

  1. AI NOT ABLE USE FLASHLIGHT.
    • better left out as an option for the designer but not autonomous AI behavior (you may not always want them to do it)"

Why a player might not want it? What are the reasons?
I think that this reason can be only one! This stealth tactic of AI.
But, note that In this case, everything can be easy!
If the bot is in "stealth" mode, then he should not use this devices.
In other cases, the enemy bot can use the flashlight and laser sight, it is easy!
If the bot is allied, then it is possible for him to activation/deactivation this devices via the actions menu.

Again all is easy.

"10. AI OF UAV OPERATOR CLASS, NOT ABLE ACTIVATE ANY DRONE.

  • can be ruled out, not possible"

The minimum can be used Darter. As I said, this can improve the detection of the enemy and shooting accuracy. Is it difficult?

It's very simple, again.

"13. AI NOT ABLE USE REPAIR.

  • Already available. AI with repairing ability can be ordered by a group leader to repair an immobile vehicle that is assigned to the group (It won't repair friendly vehicles around the battlefield at random). AI with a repair (rearm/refuel/heal) vehicle and a SUPPORT waypoint assigned will be called in by friendly vehicles."

Have not seen this.

"14. AI NOT ABLE TO USE SELF TREATMENT, WITHOUT ORDER.
It is when it's its own leader. You don't take a poo unless the leader allows you to."

I think It's bad working. Today (v1.36) the AI has no realistic human behavior. The player should feel that he controls not robots, he controls humans!

Human will not tolerate wound, he will always try to treat his wound immediately. Only In extreme cases, soldiers may wait, but just not a long time! This occurs at the level of survival instinct. Unfortunately, In ARMA3 we don't see it, soldiers from ARMA3 able to wait indefinitely.

"Leaving the rest unanswered for now. Please bear in mind that more autonomous AI != better AI. Some of the described actions are better left out as scripting commands or as modular options as they may not universally fit."

How simple player can use a script for this purpose? Simple-user is able to break brains himself, before he will be able to do something!
Please note, not every user can use complex scripting!
I agree with you that not everyone my item requires the implementation.
But I think that 1, 2, 5, 7, 8, 9, 12, 14 this is a necessary points. Please make this.

"How simple player can use a script for this purpose? Simple-user is able to break brains himself, before he will be able to do something!
Please note, not every user can use complex scripting!"
The player is control robots, it's a video game.

Also, seeing how the mission editor modifies how AI uses flash lights, laser sights, etc. It probably should stay the way it is.

Though, I do agree that the AI should be better at by passing mines, at least with a explosive specialist in the group, and react when a grenade is near them.

lGhostl added a subscriber: lGhostl.May 7 2016, 7:07 PM

I've seen the AI use smoke so much. I almost see them use it anytime they come under fire...

"The player is control robots, it's a video game."

Then let's remove the recoil system, wapons sway, fatigue system, injury, weight of weapons etc.
Because It's just a video game! It's not life!
This is nonsense...The player should feel that manages not stupid bots!

The computer soldier must be a behavior maximal similar to the behavior of a human.

"Also, seeing how the mission editor modifies how AI uses flash lights, laser sights, etc. It probably should stay the way it is."

May be possible for activation/deactivation this devices at AI, probably commander can use special command in actions menu, but this command does not exist.

"I've seen the AI use smoke so much. I almost see them use it anytime they come under fire..."

After v1.36 I have seen(only twice!) how the AI uses under-barrel grenade launcher with a smoke grenade. Very,very rarely. But the AI does not use hand smoke grenade ever!
I think, these details in the game has to be designed more better.

I think not everything should be automated. I would never like to see my AI turning on flashlights and letting us spotted by the enemy. On the other side, AI never shows us some useful behaviours (above all about hiding inside buildings during firefights, using grenades, don't reacting to enemy thrown grenades exc - I don't expect them to notice every launched grenade, but sometimes they should be able to notice 'em).

Maybe Bohemia can insert an useful feature: AI asking permission to perform a certain action.
E.G.: "Sir, I ask permission to thrown grenade\smoke grenade\assault this building exc" and we can answer them.

It would be nice to see (e.g.) some of our men to ask to assault a bulding, and then seeing them preparing near a door and entering the building cleaning it up from enemies!

So, I voted UP, but I say again: I don't agree with everything posted in the OP (I agree with the Oukej answer here)!

"I would never like to see my AI turning on flashlights and letting us spotted by the enemy. "

Here there is no problem. Order the AI to use stealth tactics and it will switch off the flashlight! It already works now, I saw in singlplayer. Just the AI will not turn the flashlight on their own, without scripting.

"Maybe Bohemia can insert an useful feature: AI asking permission to perform a certain action.
E.G.: "Sir, I ask permission to thrown grenade\smoke grenade\assault this building exc" and we can answer them. "

Your ideas are very interesting! BIS Note!

"So, I voted UP, but I say again: I don't agree with everything posted in the OP (I agree with the Oukej answer here)!"

I am sure that BIS can make effective every item from my list. Every! As I've said there's no fantastic difficult task!
Your option of allowing the use of special actions, would be a great solution for some points. Smart AI must use everything in the game.
I think the only problem is that BIS doesn't want to do(

oukej added a comment.Jan 23 2015, 1:58 PM

...there's no fantastic difficult task
Smart AI must use everything in the game.

http://www.bistudio.com/company/careers ;)

OFF-TOPIC > Scripting AI is difficult. I've tried to do it in Unity.
ON-TOPIC > AI seem to run from grenades now.

@oukej
Of course I'm not a programmer of artificial intelligence. But I have an idea about this thanks to another game, which I changed the details of the AI. That is why I don't just asked difficult questions for BIS, but also created the preconditions for the AI fulfilled them.(note every point!)
Again, I am assured, there's nothing fantastically complex. Yes may be not easy, but not fantastically complex. just real points

@TakeHomeTheCup

"AI seem to run from grenades now."
Special for you:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1tITPKdzQo&feature=youtu.be
Now i make this example.
In the real life, soldier will try to escape, but the AI does not react in any way...

I was in the dev-branch.

"AI seem to run from grenades now."
"I was in the dev-branch."

@TakeHomeTheCup

Still no.
The AI doesn't react to a grenade next to him. (v1.40)

Hi everyone, could we have a point by Oukej or another developer? This could be great to be advised on what is going on or what is definitely abandoned.

By the way, What AI shouldn't be able:
If you generate weapons and items, randomly in some houses, the leader (player) can select a unit (AI) of his group and then in action menu (6) order this unit to take a weapon (or else) even if this unit has no idea of the position of the loot. Just follow the AI and be sure to kill the game.
Any idea to avoid this weird list?

But should be able to grab all possible mags in vicinity, corresponding to its current weapons! I mean if you order your AI fellow to grab a weapon, AI is not able to grab the mags nearby!

updated, was added point 16