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Radar can simultaneously lock multiple targets and simultaneously launched several missiles
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hope the AA3 radar can simultaneously lock multiple targets and simultaneously launched several missiles.i find there are many "jet game", "helicopter game" ,"tank game" and some games the radar can simultaneously lock multiple targets and simultaneously launched several missiles,but the AA3 radar only lock one targets and shoot one missles,so hope add that.

For example,drive an jet and found 5 targets, the radar lock all the targets, then launched 5 missiles at the same time.

Details

Legacy ID
2283965668
Severity
None
Resolution
Open
Reproducibility
Always
Category
Feature Request

Event Timeline

game33good edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
game33good set Category to Feature Request.
game33good set Reproducibility to Always.
game33good set Severity to None.
game33good set Resolution to Open.
game33good set Legacy ID to 2283965668.May 7 2016, 3:25 PM

I´m not expert on AA systems, but I am pretty sure targeting systems in general can only engage a single target at a time. Downvoted

It depends on the type of radar and the avionics system that interprets the data. The Longbow system on the Apache can track numerous targets, and prioritize the most dangerous. Provided the aircraft is equipped with radar-guided Mavericks, they could possibly engage as many targets as they have missiles in a short amount of time.

AESA radars are also be capable of tracking multiple targets, such as on naval vessels and some aircraft.

As far as launching all the missiles at once, I don't think that's necessarily a good idea, or even practical.

Bohemia added a subscriber: Bohemia.May 7 2016, 3:25 PM

Launching multiple missiles are once leads to a chance of them jamming up eachothers guidance, the system overheating due to extra management or a collision too close to the aircraft.

Not to mention it's just wasteful in expense, if you engage from the appropriate angle then you should need only one missile.

Let me gues you used multi aa in hawx.... Seriously this is a simulator thoes games are just arcade shooters for people that want to kill time in they're boring lifes. Also Multi locking does not work in reallife simply because a radar can only focus on 1 thing whitout interfearing with itself. Multi tracking is possible do using radar imput from other aircraft and ground installations giving pilots a dynamic view of where all the enemy's all. But locking on 10 targets at once and shooting a missile at it? no not gona work.

+1 please make it possible as config parameter:
multilock=1;
MaxMultilockTargets=XX;
(can be assigned for driver/gunner/commander)
Because we want to make some vehicles, weapons, drones with multi-lock ability

Thanks, waiting so much
Downvoters - Zombies...

actually people that downvote this look at real facts. You on the otherhand just need to turn back at arcade shooters. Seriously people stop saying that things possible in other games whitout looking at reallife facts should be implemented. Especially features that are gona lead in massife rape.

Kol9yn, could you explain what you mean by "zombie"? Are all downvoters braindead, hungry for flesh, foul-smelling or ???

^dont feed the trolls :P

Surfer added a subscriber: Surfer.May 7 2016, 3:25 PM

Possible in real life but I'm still not upvoting this for obvious reasons. There needs to be a system of balance implemented first, mostly discussed in this ticket:

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=10323

CXN2615 added a subscriber: CXN2615.May 7 2016, 3:25 PM

Now in ArmA, the Aircraft's radar can Truck multiple targets even when lock on one of them. And you can unlock and lock\engage another target after missile released and that missile can still hit your previous Target (That's what called "Fire-and-forget")
This is......OK,I'm not saying that Radar and fire system in Arma is realistc,but this is closer to realistic "multiple targets engagement" than what you want.....

Are you crazy people with all your downvote just because you thing that its not possible, you don't know a bit about aircraft, before downvote for nothing use google.
Aircraft can since more than a decade track more than a single target and shoot it, F15C, F16, F18, French Mirage 2000 for example can detect up to 24 target at time (expect for Red Flag you will never see that much aircraft on a battlefield) and can lock 8 of them and the on board computer and the FCR can determinate the 4 highest priority target and shoot missile in short salvo.
SU27 is more limited and can engage only 2 target at time, but SU30 can detect 15 target and track and engage 4 of them.

And all of this aircraft are now OLD, modern jet fighter do way better today !
And Arma 3 is supposed to be over 2035...
Arma 3 already have a SERIOUS leak of technology, including technology that soldier have on them (today modernization of army provide for EACH soldier new system with a computer and a lot of system including for everyone head up display, GPS position and teammate position tracking/showing, target identification and sharing, optic system providing night vision, thermal sensor, possibility to send image of something to the HQ and possibility with the head up display or the screen on the arms (depending of the army) to shoot the weapon hiding from a cover.
Example here with French Felin :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75nbWXDmWtc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQSqUCDTxQY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDsxUUcYkZ0
Why i talk about the FELIN ?
Cause technology that soldier have in Arma 3 is late next to the FELIN, the FELIN is the first of a modernization program that will be done for a lot of country, this is not a FUTURE thing that come latter, it is already using on real battlefield, and this is not only for some soldier, its for all the soldier of the army !
In 2035 the FELIN and equivalent will begin to be old and probably a lot of upgrade will be done.

And the fact is that Arma 3 is way more late about vehicle, mainly aircraft (airplane and helicopter) than what he is for infantry...

Aircraft can since a while lock, track and shoot at several target at time, and modern aircraft, including actual like Rafale, F35, F22, F15E (SE), SU35, Mig35 and the futur SU50, the J20, and other aircraft will perform way more.

Example here with the SU35 :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8C06dHhlXc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuzCSJBjlv8
Real example here at LONG range : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cieLN4_tn0A

Example here with the Rafale :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkvUtklUZbQ showing briefly radar capability and all main and new system of the aircraft.

Now demonstration here with the F-16 Raytheon radar :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSVziY1Zwn8
The video is from the OFFICIAL youtube channel of Raytheon.

Same here with F-35 radar :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF29GBSpRF4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIwAOupjMeM
Both video aare from the official channel of Northrop Grumman

So yes aircraft can lock track and shoot several target at time, since a while.
They can today using radar from other aircraft with data link system.
They can track air and ground target at time now, Air to ground OR Air to air only is not finish, F35 for example (even if i don't like this aircraft) can track simultaneously air and ground target and the pilot have the total freedom of wish target he can engage.

The AIM 120 (who getting old) have datalink capability, providing the possibility to lock and shoot several target, the missile will be semi active (guided by the aircraft) using the position data from the aircraft computer, when the missile is close enough he use its own onboard radar to lock and track the target, 4 missile can be fired at time, and its only for the old F-15C, aircraft like F35 or F22 can shoot all missile at once on more aircraft at time that the number of missile that he have (6 120 and 2 AIM-9).

Aircraft like F35 can easily use fire and forget AND guided air to ground missile and bombs, like LGB (laser guided bombs) that need a constant track on the target and still using air air mode for several missile launch on several target.

And something also important, RADAR is NOT the only one tracking system of the aircraft, almost all modern aircraft (except F22) have optical AND infrared system.
A last example here for the F35 :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=5lPZDc8mzsY

So please people before downvote just because you think that its not possible about that you don't know a bit about, look for information.

@game33good
You have 100% clearance for using the information and link on my commentary in your ticket for prove that you're right about it !
Upvoted !

Arma is way too much arcade about vehicle, even some arcade game are more realistic about some part of it, Apache Air Assault is 10 time more realistic than Arma for flight model and helicopter system/operation.
Of course simulation like DCS A10C or Black Shark and other or like BMS Falcon is not possible i know, but something like DCS Flaming Cliff or even the old Lock On (LOMAC) is really needed, unrealistic and completely wrong and stupid aircraft and ground vehicle interface completely kill game balance.

Its not possible. Multi radar tracking is possible but multi engagement is not. Not because other arcade games like HAWX and Ace combat have features means that arma should have them. DCS sims are military grade simulators so lets not even descust if they are realisic or not. This fella is talking about shooting 8 missiles towoards 8 targets that would by today's tech simply cause the system to overload.

Also this feature is not needed at all. Would simply cause unbalance and give hackers whole new things to play with.

Heruon added a subscriber: Heruon.May 7 2016, 3:25 PM

ooh, imagine this in pvp with tab lock insta-kill. Go high and eliminate all vehicles of the other team with one click! I think we need a proper FCS before even thinking about implementing something like this in vanilla. But as an option for modders, sure.

Raoul read what i have write damn it.
I don't care about HAWX and i don't play it, Arma is too much arcade and need to be review, since 15 year multiple target engagement is mainstream for radar, missile and avionic, today its a normal thing and in 2035 some pilot will not even thing about single target only limitation.
YOU are the troll, what we want here is to make Arma become more realistic and you, you don't know a bit about radar or own they work, just read this http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_while_scan you come here with no idea of what you talking about, you spawn several message rather than use edit functions and you want a realistic thing on a realistic game to not be implemented.
If you want an arcade game with ridiculously arcade radar system go play to Battlefield 3 and lets serious people who come in Arma for realism have the realism that they look for and that NO OTHER game provide, their is a bench of game with arcade aircraft/radar rather than try to destroy the only one who are supposed to be realistic, go see the others, i'm bored about people that prevent Arma to grow, cause of this we have a lack of feature for almost everything.
The fact that aircraft are completely arcade totally unbalance the game and put more limitation/prevent improvement will NOT help the realism.

If you want realism think and look for info before say stupid things, if you don't care about realism, go away and leave Arma to people who want realism or play with noob level.

@Demongornot
Currently,ArmA's Heli Radar can do multiple traget track and Track-While-Scan. All possible Targets are shown on the miniradar above even with you locked at one of them.
And to say a multiple target engagement means your missile have Fire-and-forget ability(ArmA do have), thus you can lock and fire towards another target before your previous missile(s) hit thier target. NOT firing multiple missiles towards diffierent targets SIMULTANEOUSLY.

Raoul1234 added a subscriber: Demon.May 7 2016, 3:25 PM

@Heruon exactly
@Demon Take a chill pill and re read what i just said. Comes down to what CXN2615 said. You are posting this about Fire and forget and Multi radar tracking. Wich is already possible in arma. However Fireing at 10 different targets at the SAME time is impossible. They are trying to make the technology but right now its not possible.

Demongornot, thank you for your walloftextforproof, +1
Multi-lock bust be possible as feature in config or by scripts(for filter type of targets), because game in 2035, and for addon makers...

BIS, consider it please, important feature

Arma helicopter are unrealistic, even TOH have disappointed everyone that have wait for the simulation that BIS promise...
Gunner control all weapon is stupid, gunner control gun and missile, pilot control unguided rocket, cause we need to move the helicopter to use them unlike missile and canon, the gunner can use gun and missile while pilot use rockets.
Also the mini radar is completely stupid and unrealistic, good for low realism level but that's all, the interface for the Comanche is also really bad.
And ok helicopter is not 100% bad but need to be seriously improved for a lot of things.
Airplane in previous Arma game was one of the worst i have seen, its totally unnatural and unrealistic, i perfectly handle DCS A10C warthog and P51D Mustang wish is not the most simple aircraft to handle, but i can't flight any aircraft in Arma without crash for stupid leak of realism in flight model, flare are useless, chaff are not available, ECM are not here, radar for both aircraft and helicopter work in a ridiculously bad magical way, no possibility to slew them for correct target lock, no RWR, not even ejection seat or possibility to choose payload, and don't dream, Arma 3 aircraft will be THE SAME unrealistic bad thing that what we have in Arma 2, even ground vehicle (who are the closest thing to infantry and important in balance) have completely unrealistic system, arcade ridiculous thing and leak of feature, all, the wrong aspect are modeled and no part of the real thing is available...
That why everyone i know that love aviation don't want to play or hear about Arma, cause it is ridiculously bad for flying machine...

Since when the AIM 120 is firing and forget ? its the only multiple lock and shoot Fox 3 missile of the US aircraft, you almost never do multiple target shoot in short range and in long range it is SEMI active.
Stop to talk about what you don't know and go check with god damn information or buy Falcon 4.0 and add BMS on it and try it you will see about multiple lock system and it use the SAME avionic than the real one for user side.

F-15C can lock and shoot at 4 target at time, over the range that the missile can use his inboard radar, during this time the radar use datalink system for update target position, the aircraft really guide them, and until the AIM 120 reach the PITBULL point, and i talk here about the OLD F15C now the F15E do better and the F15SE will be more better, same for lastest upgrade of the F16 and the stealth F18, same for the F22 Raptor can shoot up to 8 target at time, and it still classified (probably more even if he only have 6 fox 3 missile and 2 fox 2).
Firing 10 target at time require 10 missile, some aircraft can carry up to 12 AIM 120.
Are you brainless or you simply don't understand things ?
I have show you OFFICIAL video of the real radar/aircraft builder who CLEARLY talk about shooting several missile at time at long range.

US have AIM 7 today not use anymore cause its a Fox 1 it mean continuous radar look needed
AIM 9 short range IR missile (fire and forget, you almost never need to shoot them on several aircraft or you are in a bad situation cause its for dogfight)
And AIM 120 AMRAAM that are semi active and mean before it reach its own range he use aircraft radar and several can be shoot on several target
It mean NOT fire and forget missile and it mean NOT single target, wish mean multiple guided missile on multiple target
wish mean i'm right and you're wrong, i love and read about aircraft since i was so young that i don't remember, i know a bit about helicopter, but i know a lot about aircraft, mainly US one, but yes you think you're right, i'm sure you don't even know what a radar display look like before i show you the video.

Thanks Kol9yN and sadly with people like them only wall of text can do something, and even they are not able to understand simple thing and real proof from official source....

I do fly BMS4(and DCS\LOFC\FSX...) still I did't get the point of firing multiple missiles AT THE EXACTLY SAME TIME.(I only release multiple unguided bombs at the same time)
The "Magic Radar"in ArmA is Unrealistc because it is so DAMN GOOD at multiple traget tracking,it tracks everything in it's range.
BTW slightly off the topic but the ACE for ArmA2 do have RWR,Ejection seats,coded LGB,CCIP systems and much more.

LOl i also play DCS BMS4. Its already hard locking on 1 guy and making shure no one else is trying to shoot you. So having to lock on 10 different guys and shooting at them is just useless. Also idk but the change of 1 of hem hitting is small. Wasting so much missiles would just be playing dumb

@Demongornot
Yes, flying in arma is highly unrealistic, and I think the simplicity of it makes it quite boring. But I think that what this ticket suggests would only worsen the current situation. I'm not saying that locking and firing upon multiple targets is impossible irl, just that the issue is much mure than not being able to do this. What I think it boils down to is this: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=10323

@CXN2615 obliviously you do, but Raoul1234 clearly don't know a bit about about aircraft, radar and missiles, i don't think he play DCS or BMS4 at all, you say that it is IMPOSSIBLE to do it now you change your mind and try to make me believe that you know it but it is "just" useless...
You are a troll, you don't know a bit of what you talking about and you are a liar, you have say so much error for have a chance to make me believe that you know what is the TSW mode or what is an Amraam, and if you play DCS is for sure at noob way and you don't even know what is a BVR fight or what it mean, and useless to google it for try to make me believe that you do.
You are just a troll that downvote for nothing.
And i have never talk about the USE of engaging 10 target at time, and multiple target launch still be something that REAL LIFE pilot do.

The only realistic sim is DCS and BMS/falcon, FSX is unrealistic, even for civilian only and with PMDG and other it still unrealistic and bad...
In both F16 and F15C i have find a bench of situation where multiple missile is really useful, mainly for prevent dirrect shoot of Russian IR missile wish is really not forgiving at all.

Example :
You are in a F15C, you are alone, no wingman, full AMRAAM config + 2 heater, you spike 2 bogey at your 13 FL 250 speed 400.
Distance 95, formation of 2 SU27 with 2 fox 2 short for personal defense, and 2 long range per aircraft and mainly air to ground with bombs and rocket.
You reduce your radar noise until you know you get spike by the Flanker and you still aware cause they can lock you with thermal, you take altitude and cruise at FL320/350 and mach 0.85 or depending of your fuel level max throttle without afterburner.
You get spike and they try to lock, you use ECM and try to lock them, they probably use it also, they will launch missile before you, you are a god damn Eagle driver you can't go back, you are forced to facing them, you begin to zig zag in case of the famous long range IR missile, your take a trajectory with high angle for the F pole, when you are close enough for shoot your missile you face them disabled ECM (you get probably lock at this point) you go ahead of them climb fast as possible and planed to go down, you use your TWS mode to lock both of them, you launch your Amraam higher as possible like FL400 and then with 2 Amraam launch you dive faster as possible without loose the lock.
Now you are happy to launch 2 Amraam cause they see you perfect obliviously a maneuver after missile launch, but they don't have any missile departure warning yet, so they get really nervous and it force them to focus on both RPO and radar, you can't notch cause you can't get 90° angle, but you still be in look down for them and with lower altitude their missile are less effective, and them if you can keep the lock they will finally get the Amraam on their RPO when it goes pitbull, you can now notch them and hope that you wont get hit by an heater, if they only use the radar you have the advantage, now you keep their position in mind.

And that why multiple missile are useful:
Rather than facing two of them your force them to do defensive maneuver, so you can focus on a single of them now, and your Amraam probably save your life against 2 bogey cause of the surprise effect of the Amraam, you probably have 4 left, the only job you have is to dodge long range missile, but Russian missile are far to be quiet but their are really effective, so its hard to dodge but you can detect them in your RWR, both bogey detect the Amraam only when they are pitbull, it mean close and they got a lot of energy if the Flanker don't try to do defensive maneuver in case of, and they are really confident cause they are 2 vs 1, but the surprise effect of an apogee hard dive without any info about a lock will totally change their face from happy to see a noob climb and get easier to shoot to missile to really worried about a stealth launch and probably notch and for sure a look down situation.

With a single missile launch it is better to use an AIM-7 Sparrow but while engaging a single target you can easily get kill by the the Flanker 2 who don't facing any threat, also TWS + AIM-7 well...It is not the best thing, but AM 120 Amraam + TSW feet perfectly together, and with 2 target you better have to track both of them on your radar for check if one of them will engage you or not.

Amraam is your best friend and can save your life and even he is useful for dogfight, when your facing several enemy it is a really bad idea to engage only one of them, the other will kill you so easily cause you are not a threat for him.

And this is one of the various example of the use of TWS mode and several Amraam launch, quiet approach and confusion, surprise effect and finally not get kill by the one you don't engage that will engage you while protecting his friend.

It is the difference between major advantage if you know how to BVR and impossibility to do anything cause they will for sure take advantage, of course with 2v2 or 3v3 and more multiple target engagement is useless, and of course same for 1v1 where it is impossible, but you still be able to do something with multiple target engagement.

If you are in the Flanker with a teammate against 2 F15 for example you can use your radar and launch 2 missile while your teammate stay close of you for radar plots mixing and use only thermal sensor and music off for him of course, you keep having the advantage of 2 vs 2 missile facing and you can shoot sooner with Russian and get closer of them cause of the defensive maneuver, an extremely aggressive strategy even at 1v1 or 1v2, but when you get close enough and reduce the threat of missile facing you and you brake the formation the can take by a huge (giant) surprise to the F15 formation that don't facing at you cause of your own missile, but with your teammate reveled you have the best advantage even, and with single missile at single target it is not possible.

This is another example, i will stop here cause i have write another wall of text.

But the fact is that we can have the use of multiple missile launch on multiple targets, even if you have not find a situation where you have it, after all you can't experience everything.
And the point is :
Not matter if we have the use or not, if we want REALISTIC thing we must NEVER limit real life feature
It cause leak of bipod and resting (ridiculously necessary for this kind of game), incomplete inventory with no lower attachment when other game have total weapon customization with internal part changing, it create a game like Arma that don't handle weapon jam or part broken, double bullet introduction and other weapon failure, it happen a lot in real life and way more restrictions including the magical ridiculous radar.

I totally agree Heruon, with actual arcade/unrealistic it will be worst, that why i talk about more realistic avionic something like Lock On for flight model and avionic/weapon use, and it is not the hardest or the longest thing to do for dev, i have already see amateur software/sim handle it perfectly...
Avionic must be improved and automatically add radar/TGP/Sniper pod and other sensor slew and also add realistic multiple track and no more multiple track.
I have already upvote the ticket you show me since a while !
But thanks dude !

I do play bms and i do play dcs but thats not the point. I mean if its true what you are saying why has this never been used in real life? right because its either not possible or impractical. How high is the change of hitting 4 targets at the same time? You'd just be wasting ammo. Also you are describing senario's of how this would be usefull. But you are describing behaviour no player will show nor AI. Lets keep it real changing radar in arma to allow multi lock and multi fireing of missiles is not gona change annything usefull. Its just gona allow noobs to shoot down large groups of other pilots trying to achief somthing. The only thing bis should do is add no features as clickable cockpit more cockput sounds Usable MFD's but as already a Dev said not gona happen. Also not because you think somthing is realist means that the rest things aswell. Look at the votes you talking about we and so far we is only 5 people and the rest things its not. Also if you want more realistic flight start making tickets about Damage. Plane physix (Turbulence croswind loss of parts). and other things that do matter.

I mean we can all agree that flying in arma is horrible. But changing somthing that already works is not gona change annything to make it more realistic. The Radar in Arma already works it allows you to track multiple targets and quickly switch between targets after a shot.

may i invite you over to the following thread to further discuss the issue in a more result-oriented way.
http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?158384-The-community-s-definite-suggestion-for-better-heli-immersion-and-guided-weapon-FCS

Demon, you have to learn that not just because someone thinks different its a "troll".

Multi locking its not possible, in real life i am sure a F-16 can IDENTIFY several targets, but if it cannot shot more than 1 missile, then multi locking its useless and impossible.

Multi identifying the enemy its possible in arma with the little unrealistic miniradar on top, multi locking can be easily scripted or added as an addon, multi engagement its just stupid.

Dr Death you need to learn to read.
I have NEVER talk about multi lock, for F-16 it is not possible to multi lock, but for the latest upgrade that using the AN/APG-80 wish is AESA he can do it, you don't know how lock for a radar work, i know what process the radar do from the wave emission to the FCR computing process.
First if all, even with a mechanical antenna IT IS possible to shoot on several target SIMPLY cause TWS mode (the mode that allow several missile launch) DON'T lock any target, and advantage is cause the radar don't focus on a single target you can TRACK several of them and don't give them any possibility to know that you launch your missile until he use its own on board radar, AIM 120 while semi auto DON'T work with radar, even the old AIM-7 in the latest version use datalink system radar than radar array that only be here for lock it.
TWS mode can without any problem track up to 4 target on the F15C and 8 on the F15E, F-16 is not made to be a fighter, its more a multiple focused on air to ground with air to air capability.

You don't seem to know a bit about it like Raoul and you talk about it, today you don't need a lock anymore for shoot a target, you can even use the TRACK mode of your TEAMMATE radar to shoot a target, the F35 is even able to shoot a target on his 6, even 2 target its not a problem for him at his 6'o clock...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1NrFZddihQ&list=PLxYF2Xt6-JqGp-LHnQucGbtbQTBdsnFp2
Today you don't even need a radar to shoot, and this is even since a while, and you talk about need to lock several target at time.
Yes mechanic antenna can't lock several target at time, but electronic scan radar antenna is completely different and can without any issue LOCK several target, today lock is useless, radar is powerful enough and give enough scan rate and precision to don't need anymore to lock.
On electronic antenna multiple lock and track are only software issue, on mechanical antenna it is a hardware issue, but still TRACK several target even if he can't lock several at time.
And again you don't need to LOCK for shoot a missile, its the typical thing that someone who don't know a bit about radar say.

Simple example here in Falcon BMS :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACgMmlUy3II
Dual target track and double AIM 120 launch, in this video both AMRAAM was launch BEFORE the PITBULL point, wish mean only guided by the aircraft, two missile clearly NOT in fire and forget situation launch on several target, it mean :
Multiple missile launch on multiple target is possible.

Ok for he old first variant of the F16A it is probably now possible or a pain, idk i don't like the falcon, but with standard (Blk52) it is possible, and its not the latest upgrade.

Also i have send SEVERAL link taken from OFFICIAL aircraft and radar builder, but maybe you, that don't know the difference between track and lock know much than them.

And again, a bench of situation provide to use several missile on several target, mainly on situation where in front they have more aircraft and where you can't leave the fight, you are forced to engage BVR ok multiple target.

If EVERY country today made the multiple target acquisition and engagement mainstream it is not just for say : i can engage more aircraft than you.
Aircraft and radar (hardware and software) designer and strategic command know their job.
And if it is presented like an (incredible alien feature that can almost not exist) it just for the eyes of people who don't know a bit about radar or fighter/multirole and don't know that its possible since several decade, its just for make them think that the country they living in have the best technology and that no one else have it but in fact even previous generation of potential enemy country can do the same.
But again maybe you know more than politician about politic and what to say/show to people and maybe you know more than aircraft/radar designer and builder and strategic command that ask for a precise functions/possibility.

Or maybe you have try Falcon BMS but you still a noob that can't start the aircraft from ramp, so you take of from air only and you try to lock multiple target (with mechanic antenna ?) without even know how to engage TWS mode.

And you don't know what is identification in a radar, identification mean that the radar have enough data to say what kind of aircraft it is based on the wave and signal return, and even without it we can know speed, altitude and heading, after 2 or 3 burst of wave the aircraft can know it, and it need less than a micro second to do so + the fact that he scan several time per seconds.
Just know if it is an allied or an enemy don't require a lot of technology, even liner aircraft now have their own onboard radar for avoid collision (TCAS), IFF system is what determine who is friendly and who is not (FOE identification) and civilian aircraft have transponder system wish is more basic but work the same way...

For anyone who know a bit about aircraft what you are write is completely funny and not serious at all, the 2 technical term you have (tried to) employ is totally wrong on what you talk about...
Talk about multiple engagement and make a judgement on it without know a bit about radar, aircraft, BVR fight or anything else you have talking about is the stupid thing, multiple target engaging is using in real life since a while.

Even the F14A who was old and retired today was able to do this, it was the first and he entered in service in 1970, he was able to track 80 target and able to lock (really lock this time) and shoot with 6 missile at time on 6 different target at a ridiculously high range that even today still huge for moderns missiles...

Today aircraft can engage ground target with fire and forget + laser guided munition and still be able to perform in the same time multiple air to air launch on several target.

I will stop here, but i have show you proof, explanation and evidence, if you still maintain it, well it is your problem not mine you will just look and probably feel stupid.

Dr Death & Raoul
Talking about something we don't know at all and stay a lot of bullshit and maintain that you're right and that things must be like YOU want, IS trolling.

@Raoul how you know that it is not used in real life ?
Do you real all combat report, all training, follow all red flag event, know every classified incident ?
I don't think so.
If you are in a F15E and you facing against typical today enemy, it mean not superpower vs superpower but superpower vs country with limited things, you have greats change to facing against 6 Mig21 that are here for a mission, it can be a lot if things, with your F15E you have great change to kill all of them in a SINGLE pass before they can even dream to be at range for shoot you, things like this happen sometime, modern aircraft face against old one that can't do anything in BVR and probably don't expect to be shoot down by any aircraft.
Mainly today with stealth aircraft like Rafale, F15SE, F22 or F35 or the futur SU50 that can penetrate in any country who have old air surveillance radar, you don't use radar at all for stealth and you can with any other sensor find interesting target, it is even the role of the F22 Raptor and what he is designed for, penetrate in hostile area/territory without be detected, eliminate all air threat/target and maintain domination of the area.
Also in some occasion you have to waste a missile just for protect yourself or for strategy that need to you make the enemy goes defensive for the first missile and after burn of a lot of speed and altitude be completely take by surprise by a second missile that come some seconds after.
The behaviour i described is what happen almost EVERY DAY in DCS or BSM when player facing player, even a bit of this are gently done by AI and that what you can find in almost EVERY BVR PDF toturial, look one for the F-Pole or AIM7+AIM120 guide or even TWS silent strike.
And that what is also a little (and i said a little for a bench of reason) what real jet fighter learn.
If avionic become realistic and radar need TWS mode to do it, no noob will do it, and like you said, noob can change target using the unrealistic keyboard button (no real aircraft have a simple button that just select the "next" target, for secondary yes but not for primary, even in the F35 who are easy to use (but complex with a lot of stuff) it is not like this at all.) to lock the next and shoot a missile, lock the next and do it again, it is finally the SAME thing without even anything to prevent him to do it, no difficulty, only 2 buttons.
You don't know what dev WILL do, their is a difference between what we say and what we do, and Flaming Cliff don't have any clickable cockpit and use it without any issue.
I talk about realistic thing cause it is something actually using in real life, simple as that.
And if people downvote it is cause like you their have closed mind and rather than check if aircraft can do it, just think that its a arcade lover who just want to destroy everything and just believe that it is not possible and downvote like a stupid.
And i know about the rest of the issue for aircraft, but the ticket here don't talk about it.

And that why radar need to be review, not only add TWS or any multiple tracking mode, but really review and work more like BMS or Lock On.
Even this little and free flash game handle realistic radar system :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1mu2k6M-es
SAM simulator.

Anyway i don't want to argument anymore, i have already said everything possible that can make anyone who are not stupid what it is really cause i have give here real proof and evidence even from official source, so if you want to keep told that something possible in real life is not it is your problem not mine, and i have done enough wall of text like this, cause sadly waste my time to do it is the only way to make people like you understand, but even when it is simply explained you don't understand.
So good talking realism hater, i won't answer you anymore, don't waste your time to answer me.

You are explaining things by using resources from youtube. Old outdated video's showing concepts and things never are implemented in real life. You actually are arguing with yourself. You explaining how radars today can track multiple targets witch is true. Then you say they can shoot at all thoes targets (not at the same time). I mean seriously use some comon sense. A plane usually carries not more then 10 AA missiles. Shooting all of them at once is just playing dumb. If they all miss you are screwd. It seems like you do not understand thigns like comon sense and realism. Also calling people realism haters is just childish go away from this feedback track if you cant take people disagreeing with you. Most people think this is an unneeded and unrealistic feature thats why we disvote Its our opinion just as yours is that this is. Pull your head out of your ass.

Not only you dont know the definition of trolling (saying things just to make people mad, either believing them or faking them).

But you also think i have no knowledge of aircrafts or simulation at all of them.

the ticket talks about a request to lock on and engage multiple targets at the same time (pretty much what you see in HAWK) that's why people downvote this ticket.

I never mentioned the angle of locking of the aircraft, and unless you can give me proof on a video of any aircraft (like the F-14 you mentioned earlier) locking and engaging in a short time more than 1 target, i wont believe a word you said

Yes, with some radar systems it is possible to track and fire on multiple targets. However, in most cases, it's not practical.

Pilots typically fire on one aircraft at a time, or two if it's a medium or long range engagement and both enemy aircraft are close together. The term "Fire-and-forget missile" is pretty clear. After shooting, the pilot is free to switch to a new target and fire a second "fire and forget" missile, or several more. So yes, depending on the aircraft, it's radar, and it's missiles, pilots can sometimes fire on multiple targets at once. But even the "fire on several targets" process is usually a one-shot-at-a-time thing:

  1. Focus your radar on target 1
  2. Fire the missile (and forget about it)
  3. Focus your radar on target 2
  4. Fire the missile (and forget about it)
  5. Focus your radar on target 3
  6. Fire the missile (and forget about it)
  7. Turn and fly away before anybody shoots back at you.

But for practical reasons, most pilots don't usually fire on more than 2 air targets at a time before breaking away, and waiting to analyze the results of their attack.

The exception to the 1 or 2 missile(s) general rule might be an air-to-ground attack on a convoy of vehicles that are bunched up close together, where you might ripple fire missiles onto target, after target, after target. Apache hellfire missiles can do this very well.

In fact, Apache hellfire missiles can be fired in LOBL or LOAL mode. LOBL stands for "Lock-On Before Launch". Lock On Before Launch is rather self-explanatory. LOAL stands for "Lock On After Launch", meaning you launch a missile, or two, or three, or more (usually spaced several seconds apart). The missiles arc up high into the air and head toward the general enemy target area, but they do NOT have an exact target locked up yet. Then the pilot locks onto target #1, and the first missile guides down onto target one and destroys it. Next, the pilot quickly switches to radar target 2, and the second in-flight missile guides down onto target # two. Then the pilot quickly switches the radar to target # 3, and the third in-flight missile guides down onto target # three. By NOT locking your radar onto the enemy targets until the missile(s) are in the air and half-way to the target area, you minimize the enemies chance to react to your attack. An Apache helicopter can devastate an entire enemy convoy very quickly with this method.

Each aircraft in ARMA3 should have similar capabilities to it's real-world counterpart, albeit with simplified controls. However, each aircraft (or it's capabilities) needs to be play-balanced with an enemy factions counterpart (capabilities). If not, the fun and gameplay balance of ARMA 3 could easily be destroyed.

heyv, the whole idea its not gonna be implemented unless BIS uses a more realistic way to interact with aerial vehicles

I personally like the idea. If we have systems now that can hedge on doing this I don't see why in 2035 they wouldn't have systems that are superior. Just look at how far tech has come in the PAST thirty years! And personally, I loathe the term "balance" when applied to ArmA. If I wanted "balance" I'd go play the BF series. WAR is NOT balanced....period

That said, if proper countermeasures were in place that had even a 50/50 chance of working then it'd not be such a big deal IMO. As it stands now countermeasures aren't very valuable IMO. The fact that missiles travel too slowly IMO doesn't help either. Last night I was playing ArmAII and flying a SU34, passed over the US base, then their other base in close order. Had something like twelve launches directed at me (playing BE), and because I was doing 900KPH all I had to do was bank a little and point the nose down gently to keep gravity pulling me down fast and they never even got close.

So, either way I'd personally be ok with this but I think people would wank too much about it being an easy button for victory lol. The same people that'd probably also faint if Vulcan weapons actually fired at their correct ROF and could really chew objects/cover to bits like IRL. Or engage targets with MBT cannons and missile weapons at proper ranges.

Also @Demongornot, I love your posts, but could you please limit the blinding wall of text replies? I check some threads on my cell and when it starts to drop everything because it can't load it all then it's too much txt man :)

izaiak added a subscriber: izaiak.May 7 2016, 3:25 PM

Some AA Radar can lock several target.

Some can fire several target in the same times.
But it is not ace combat, this will be a bad features for Arma 3.

Voted down.

Voted down.
If you want pros with modern radars targeting systems. Then they should also have the cons of radar. Which they dont have in arma. Arma radar spots any vehicle regardless of conditions, unlike real life. In short, multi lock fire without any cons would be OP for vanilla in my view.