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.45 rounds are instantkill (ACP and Vermin)
Closed, ResolvedPublic

Description

I was testing in the newest DEV build (0.71.107150) to see how much damage the ACP did compared to the PO7. Well I found out that the .45 rounds did huge amount of damage, so much that all hits to any part of the body will result in death.
Next I tried with the Vermin to see if it was the .45 rounds or the ACP pistol which did it. With the Vermin it was the same thing.

Details

Legacy ID
1389823415
Severity
None
Resolution
Open
Reproducibility
Always
Category
Config
Steps To Reproduce
  1. Spawn forself as a Green army rifleman and enemy man
  2. Press preview
  3. Equip ACP .45 pistol
  4. Shoot enemy man in the foot (or any other non lethal place)
  5. observe as a single shot will instantly kill the enemy man
  6. Try to shoot him other places, you will get the same result
Additional Information

This does not happen if a suppressor is attached to the weapon (Thanks KardasLT)

Event Timeline

runekn edited Steps To Reproduce. (Show Details)Jul 1 2013, 12:46 PM
runekn edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
runekn set Category to Config.
runekn set Reproducibility to Always.
runekn set Severity to None.
runekn set Resolution to Open.
runekn set Legacy ID to 1389823415.May 7 2016, 3:12 PM

I've noticed that as well, the 9mm rounds are way too weak and slow making it nearly impossible to hit a moving target even if it's right infront of the gun, while the .45 rounds are just overkill, killing anything with only one bullet.

p00d73 added a subscriber: p00d73.May 7 2016, 3:12 PM
p00d73 added a comment.Jul 1 2013, 5:33 PM

.45 ACP and 9mm should have similar damage models, but the 9mm is too weak as it is.

Any amount of shots from either one in the foot, arm or hand should *never* kill instantly, but targets should start bleeding and die within some time.
Any penetrating shot of either one centre-mass should make the target bleed out in less than a minute.
Multiple shots centre-mass or 1 headshot should kill instantly.

then again, .45 are known to deal big damage

Ever seen a .50 caliber sniper? Well this is five callibers less.

Your ticket should be health is glitched when being shot in the arm or leg. Not this.

runekn added a subscriber: runekn.May 7 2016, 3:12 PM
runekn added a comment.Jul 1 2013, 8:18 PM

@ProGamer No, theres nothing wrong with character health. Have you even tested it yourself? It only happends with .45 rounds.
And the title "health is glitched when being shot in the arm or leg" would indicate that the glitch was related to arms and legs. Which is incorrect. Arms and legs are just points on the body which shouldn't result in lethal hits, which I used as easy examples.

The issue clearly lies with the configuration of .45 rounds.

Yes that is what I said, the health system has a problem in which involves being shot in the arma or legs. You ticket's name is quite misleading because it looks like your upset about the damage rather than wanting to fix a health systems glitch or bug.

Wouldn't it for more for health systems? Rather than artificially changing the weapon, look at the heath system which makes the shot to the arm or leg a one hit kill.

runekn added a comment.Jul 1 2013, 8:32 PM

@ProGamer waow.... You clearly have no idea of what I'm talking about. Let me summarize it for you. What you're saying is that every shot to arms or legs is instant kill. I totally agree that it shouldn't be that way. BUT, thats not what this ticket is about, plus it neither is that way.
This ticket is about a issue which lies with the .45 bullet, which is used with the Vermin SMG and ACP pistol. So the issue is that any shot to any part of the body with either the vermin or ACP on a person kills him. Note that this ONLY happends with the Vermin and ACP, not with the MX, not with the MBR, not with any other weapon.

Hope you understand it now.

runekn added a comment.Jul 1 2013, 8:34 PM

Also, I don't wanna change a weapon. I'm reporting a bug, it's clearly not supposed to behave like this.

What about chest shots and head shots? It's a .45 callibers bullet! It's purposely like that due to the calliber of the round, another 5 callibers up and you have a really powerful sniper rifle.

runekn added a comment.Jul 1 2013, 8:42 PM

@ProGamer Wait a minute!? Do you think I WANT a .45 round to do have insane damage compared to any other much higher caliber weapon?

So your saying if I shoot someone in the chest or head with a .45 calliber bullet, they shouldn't die as a result? And I have no idea what you ment by that last comment.

runekn added a comment.Jul 1 2013, 8:46 PM

OOOHHH, now I know what you're talking about. You think a .45 is a huge ass bullet :P This my friend is a .45 ACP bullet (I think the left one is 9mm) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/01/45caliberACP.jpg

The image you showed are same bullet type :) though ones a hollow point version and the others not.

runekn added a comment.Jul 1 2013, 8:52 PM

oh, well I'm not a bullet expert. But do you get it now? the .45 ACP is a small round made for pistols and SMGs. But as it is in the lastest DEV build, they do much much more damage than any other much higher caliber ingame. They should probably only do a little more damage than a 9mm.

Can confirm .45 is bugged. For both vermin and green handgun. Insta-kills to any part of the body, even body armour and feet.

But they aren't very similar to 9mm rounds. They are still stopped by body armor but are much more powerful in killing and stopping power than the 9mm.

What I'm saying is the gun does not do more damage than the anti-vehicle rifles though this is more of a problem of body armor ingame and the health system regarding limbs. You are trying to bandaid the problem.

All stuff BIS has fixed in VBS2 but for some reason can't easily fix in Arma 3.

runekn added a comment.Jul 1 2013, 8:59 PM

@ProGamer but not more than a 6.5 rifle round, am I right? :)

EDIT: omg... you still don't understand.... Don't make a single comment here before you've actually tested the .45 ACP bullets in the newest DEV build.

If it was a health problem then all amunition would give the same result. But it doesnt, its a problem of the round, it isnt properly tweeked for damage. It bypasses body armour unlike other ammunition in the game. Its the odd one out.

p00d73 added a comment.Jul 1 2013, 8:58 PM

ProGamer: handgun bullets do not behave like rifle bullets do. Here's an interesting report by the FBI on this issue: http://www.firearmstactical.com/pdf/fbi-hwfe.pdf

Summed up: while a hit from a rifle bullet centre-mass will often incapacitate the target immediately, a handgun bullet can not be expected to do the same. Only a shot to the central nervous system is guaranteed to immediately incapacitate the target. Hits centre-mass are likely to incapacitate targets over time, but even when they hit the heart or aorta (and thus will kill the target with 100% certainty), the target may continue to function for up to 20s, until his brain runs out of oxygen.

So that's why I proposed this health system (at standard engagement range for each weapon):

Any bullet that manages to penetrate the CNS (head) should immediately kill the target.

A handgun bullet that penetrates the chest centre-mass or to the neck should drop the target anywhere (randomly) between 0-30s (to simulate differences in psychological/physical state), without ability to heal. A handgun bullet that penetrates anywhere else (limbs, shoulder, hip, stomach) should cause bleeding and performance los of said limb, but only kills if left untreated for a couple of minutes.

A rifle bullet penetrating centre mass should give immediate incapacitation and death (lung/heart/neck shot). A rifle bullet penetrating a limb should render it completely useless and start bleeding. A rifle bullet penetrating other areas (stomach) should cause incapacitation and bleeding but not immediate death.

Also just noticed, if you have a 9mm sound suppressor equiped on vermin or on .45 acp handgun (another bug), it does not instakill, and seems to behave as it should. Without it, its instakill round.

runekn added a comment.Jul 1 2013, 9:05 PM

Thanks, updated ticket.

b101uk added a subscriber: b101uk.May 7 2016, 3:12 PM
b101uk added a comment.Jul 1 2013, 9:14 PM

Common misconception “size” on its own, just ask a female friend if she prefers a slightly smaller one with someone who knows how to use it, or a slightly larger one with someone who doesn’t. ;)

runekn added a comment.Jul 2 2013, 1:59 PM

Lastest dev builds haven't fixed this.

b101UK, i have learned from several nymp...gun owners and prosti.... soldiers that most of them rather want a normal or a slightly smaller one even if they dont know how to use them than a big one wich they cant handle.

gutsnav added a subscriber: gutsnav.May 7 2016, 3:12 PM

.45 is powerful. But it shouldn't kill you instantly if you get hit in your arm or lower leg.

Something that doesn't happen with a rifle round..shouldn't be happening with a .45 round.
BI must double-check their configs

runekn added a comment.Jul 3 2013, 3:27 PM

Still not fixed :/

CXN2615 added a subscriber: CXN2615.May 7 2016, 3:12 PM

not fixed yet at DEV.71.107302
The Vermin with SOS can work as a sniper rifle,kill people form 500M with no more than 2 rounds.

They raped it now.... 2 shots to the skull right in the face. No damage at all not even a flinch 1 shot to the chest extreemly visible woundings.

AD2001 added a subscriber: AD2001.May 7 2016, 3:12 PM

So...are they fixed? I really need a round that is slightly more powerful than the 9mm.

Nope not at all. the damage mapping done by bis is a compleet fail. Shots in the legs and arms are equal as fatal as a shot to the head. As for shots to the chest wont do much fatal harm unless you get pumped by a 50... As for the .45 now it is underpowerd shots to leg arms chest head dont do much dammage Head shots require 2 full close shots to the face for the enemy to die...

Goose added a subscriber: Goose.May 7 2016, 3:12 PM
Goose added a comment.Jul 11 2013, 7:27 PM

I haven't checked to see what the values are currently.

I know a few days ago the damages were like so:

.45 ACP = hit 9 = 9^2 = 100%
9x19mm = hit 5 = 5^2 = 30%

9mm only did about 30% of the damage! .45 was over three times as powerful.

.45 should be about 1.5 times as "powerful", at most... in ArmA2 (after damage update) .45 was 1.56 times as powerful.

Hit value should be set to perhaps 6.5 if the 9mm is at 5 (however BIS seems to only use whole numbers for hit values).

MadDogX added a subscriber: MadDogX.May 7 2016, 3:12 PM

Mass closing ancient tickets with no activity for > 12 months; assume fixed or too trivial.

If this issue is still relevant in current dev build, please re-post.