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ACP-C2 should be chambered in .45 ACP.
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Description

It's pretty obvious the ACP-C2 is based on the Kimber Covert II (Same colour, same design, even the game version has a play on words 'Pro Qwert III' on the in game model and has the same serial number...) currently the in game variation is in 9mm, while IRL the Covert II only comes in .45 ACP and IMO, the game could use a pistol with a little more stopping power. {F20034}

Details

Legacy ID
606198650
Severity
None
Resolution
Fixed
Reproducibility
Always
Category
Config
Additional Information

Event Timeline

Scarecrow398 edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
Scarecrow398 set Category to Config.
Scarecrow398 set Reproducibility to Always.
Scarecrow398 set Severity to None.
Scarecrow398 set Resolution to Fixed.
Scarecrow398 set Legacy ID to 606198650.May 7 2016, 2:43 PM

I think it's a mixture of the pistol you mentioned and this- http://www.kimberamerica.com/1911/custom-ii/custom-tle-rl-ii

Anyway, I agree with you. The Vermin(...) have the same problem. Hopefully, they will change when .45 ACP is implemented.

I said 'mixture'. Its grips, slide and the integral rail are more like TLE/RL II while its camo/color scheme and sights are identical to those of Covert II.

Agreed, the only reason they did that is laziness, to avoid coding in .45 ammo. It's the same reason the Vector Kriss is 9mm as well.

b101uk added a subscriber: b101uk.May 7 2016, 2:43 PM

There are only so many ways you can make a 1911 before it’s NOT a 1911 and becomes something else.

The 1911 has been made in 9mm Parabellum and the 9mm NATO is pretty much the standard pistol round for NATO.

Anyway, assuming it was made by Colt and based on the M1911 and given the designation “ACP C2” then that could just be “Automatic Colt Pistol Commander 2” being a rehash of the original Commander which its self was at first only offered in 9mm Parabellum and was based on the M1911.

Likewise “ACP” is not always a reference to e.g. the .45 ACP being a reference to a built type, by Colt it is also used as “Automatic Colt Pistol” as in “Officer's ACP” or “Lightweight Officer's ACP” which denotes barrel length with the former & barrel length + lightweight frame with the latter of an Automatic Colt Pistol and is NOT a reference to the calibre/type of built used in the gun in that context.

@Deceiver

Ah, after looking again i see what you mean now.

I guess both are custom order pistols so you could end up with it either way.

@b101uk

If you want to be so anal, i'll ammend the post to state i would like it in 11.43×23mm [.45 Automatic] round...

Also i am aware the 1911 frame has been made in 9x19mm even back in the 1940's. But apart from being less popular and many armies looking to go back from 9x19mm to .40 or .45 rounds, the pistols the weapon is based off in game is only available in 11.43x23mm

samogon added a subscriber: samogon.May 7 2016, 2:43 PM

DEVs tell us about usage of 9mm rounds in this gun.Also - maybe you know a good gun,called Browning Hi-Power?This is clone of Colt 1911,but uses 9mm rounds.

Isn't the magazine capacity incorrect as well? 16-18 is way too high for a regular single-stack 1911-derivative magazine.

I think its 16 they use in-game, but yes 16 would be to high for a 9mm 1911 single stack type mag, more normal would be a 9 or 10 round mag + 1 in the chamber, while .45 would by 7 or 8 rounds + 1 in the chamber, however there are definitely 14 round double stacked mag + 1 in the chamber giving 15 rounds of 9mm for 1911 made with double stacked sized handgrips/frames.

Picture has been added that shows the ".45 ACP" markings on the slide/ejection port.

Found in the A3 Beta known issues:

-Vermin SBR has wrong ammo description - it uses .45 ACP but description says 9mm
-ACP-C2 uses wrong ammo - it should use .45 ACP but uses 9mm

So i suppose they didn't have time to research and implement the round in time.

@samogon: the Browning HP is not a 1911 clone, not by any stretch of the word.

@Scarecrow: if that is true, then 16 rnds of .45 ACP is really ridiculous.

Goose added a subscriber: Goose.May 7 2016, 2:43 PM
Goose added a comment.Jun 27 2013, 1:33 AM

It should be in .45 ACP, and the "Vermin" should also be in .45 ACP. It's a 1911, everyone expects it to be a big bore.

It also shouldn't have 16 rounds.

Quote: "So i suppose they didn't have time to research and implement the round in time."

^I doubt that! They had it in ArmA2. This is how the important values for magazine/ammo should look for the 1911:

hit = x
typicalSpeed = 260;
initSpeed = 260;
airFriction = -0.0008;

About the "hit = x", a .45 FMJ should obviously do more damage than a 9mm FMJ, in the previous ArmA title it was 9mm = 4, .45 = 5. I think that's okay, that would mean .45 is about 1.5 times as effective.

As for why airFriction is so low - the round is not aerodynamic, but it is launched at a very low velocity, this means less drag.

Look at the real-life ballistics and you'll see it loses very little velocity. Check out to 150 meters. To get a similar rate of deceleration in ArmA.... you should use airFriction - 0.0008.

ArmA 2 used a higher airFriction (-0.0013522) but I found this didn't give velocity numbers that were in accordance with real life.

Of course if the same bullet is launched at a much higher speed, it would have a higher airFriction! That doesn't present a problem here since the KRISS Vector has a 5.5 inch barrel - velocities will be very similar to the pistol.

Anyways, seeing as this is a known issue, hopefully we will get a .45 ACP with an 8 round magazine in a future update.

Goose, is the 3D magazine model for the ACP-C2 a 7 or 8-round mag?

pops added a subscriber: pops.May 7 2016, 2:43 PM
pops added a comment.Jun 27 2013, 2:51 AM

The issue is listed in the known issues, so I'm pretty sure this is not final.

Goose added a comment.Jun 27 2013, 2:55 AM

@Laqueesha: haven't checked.

As far as the chambering goes I found this in the beta config:

"class B_45ACP_Ball : BulletBase {

		hit = 9;
		indirectHit = 0;
		indirectHitRange = 0;
		cartridge = "FxCartridge_9mm";
		caliber = 0.33;
		visibleFire = 16;	
		audibleFire = 18;
		cost = 5;
		typicalSpeed = 260;
		airFriction = -0.001;

};"

So there already is a .45 ACP apparently, so I guess it's ready to go. Personally I think it's too powerful as it is currently coded... the 9mm only does roughly 30 percent of the damage at the moment.

the ACP its based on the M1911A1, and the bad bullet mags are a confirmed issue

"^I doubt that! They had it in ArmA2."

Yea, i was just trying to find some way to justify it to my self...

@Laqueesha no idea on the model but on the two kimbers it's based on it's a 7rnd mag.

Known issue.

MadDogX added a subscriber: MadDogX.May 7 2016, 2:43 PM

Fixed in latest dev build.