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More rifle attachments, having a rifle in AT slot - how could it look like in the inventory screen?
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Description

This is related to the following tickets:
http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=5374 Allow rifles to be equipped in both the primary and secondary slot
http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=3597 Foregrip not an attachment
http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=2835 Grenade launcher not an attachment
http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=5809 More attachment points on weapons
http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=2766 PROPOSAL for change in Mounting Interface Config design for Weapons - Mounting system categories on Weapons

I was thinking, if these features would be implemented (which would be nice), how would it look like in the inventory? Could it accommodate two rifles, with even more attachements, and a pistol, at the same time? It turns out, that it it could and the result can be seen on the attached image. {F19224}

Details

Legacy ID
1331585622
Severity
Feature
Resolution
Open
Reproducibility
N/A
Category
Feature Request
Additional Information

The image needs some additional notes.

  1. Two upper rails are for combinations of two devices:
  2. a daylight scope + night vision addon,
  3. a reflex sight + magnifying scope,
  4. a reflex sight + IR laser mounted on top in front of it,
  5. also it could be possible to have a reflex sight mounted on the front rail, for compatibility with NV goggles.
  1. A large thermal scope could use both upper rails at the same time.
  1. Basically, the front lower rail is for bipods and the aft lower rain is for foregrips, so it's possible to have them both at the same time.
  1. A grenade launcher would occupy both lower rails at the same time.
  1. Side rails are for additional small gear, like lasers, flashlights, maybe a camo netting attachment (sniper/spotter rifles)?
  1. This is an example of a fully moddable rifle. On less advanced weapons, the slots could be disabled with an X mark, instead of attachment point icon.
  1. AT launcher would work in the same way, as it works now.

Event Timeline

armapirx edited Steps To Reproduce. (Show Details)May 1 2013, 2:40 PM
armapirx edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
armapirx set Category to Feature Request.
armapirx set Reproducibility to N/A.
armapirx set Severity to Feature.
armapirx set Resolution to Open.
armapirx set Legacy ID to 1331585622.May 7 2016, 1:56 PM
arziben added a subscriber: arziben.May 7 2016, 1:56 PM

the idea isn't bad but personally I don't like what you did with the pistol slot, plus it lacks a sight slot

The pistol location was decided based on how the inventory looks like on a soldier. Two main long weapon slots for two shoulders and an additional small slot for a pistol - be it a leg mounted holster or a holster attached to the vest. Certainly not another "shoulder type" slot!

Yes, I had to cut out the pistol sight slot, but honestly, would it be that really needed for the distances, at which the pistol is effective? The slots for more common lasers, flashlights, suppressors or maybe even compensators are still there.

Fisgas added a subscriber: Fisgas.May 7 2016, 1:56 PM
Fisgas added a comment.May 1 2013, 3:17 PM

I agree, we should have a slot for every rail available on a weapon, some weapons have less, others have more, and having an aimpoint/eotech + magnifier in diferent sight slots would be a good addition.

Actually the standar rifle has just 4 attachments port, for scopes, GL/hand grip, muzzle, and barrel, not 8.

BUT, dont forget there are optics that can be used in pistols

You made a valid point, so I investigated how different weapons look ingame. I used Splendid Camera for close up looks and the results are:

MX family
1 long upper rail
1 long lower rail
2 short side rails (1 on each side)

Katiba family
1 medium length upper rail
2 short side rails (1 on each side)
no lower rail - in this case having a separate variant with GL, instead of GL attachment, makes sense

MK200
2 short upper rails
2 short side rails (1 on each side)
1 short lower rail

EBR
1 long upper rail
2 short side rails (1 on each side)
1 short lower rail, aft of which is bolted a home-made foregrip assembly

TRG
1 short upper rail
1 medium length side rail (on the right)
no lower rail - see Katiba comment

Having a QD suppressor or flash hider, is an open question for any of the rifles above and for gameplay's sake, I'd say let's allow for them, like it is now.

Now for the pistols:

P07
a threaded and protruding muzzle end for suppressor installation
a short dovetail-slide mount under the barrel

ROOK-40
nothing, although there might be a possibility to attach a laser or a small flashlight with some trigger guard adapter

In my proposition, there are only 4 rails + muzzle end, exactly like the MX model has. "Magazine" is not really an attachment point. I have separated long upper and lower rails into two slots each, in order to accomodate some combinations involving two separate attachments on one long rail, as I've described them above. Also, having a defined attachment points and point types, instead of freestyle rails, will make weapon and mod makers' lives easier.

I know that optics can be used on pistols. But given Arma's reality, I just don't see people sniping anyone from a pistol. Even if that would be really wanted, after examining P07 model, there is only one possibility to mount a sight there:

http://cdn2.armslist.com/sites/armslist/uploads/posts/2012/08/29/537323_01_nib_usp_9mm_v1_with_quik_comp__640.jpg

Which would make use of the current "Pistol lower" slot anyway.

now that I think about it, pistol with sights isn't really needed

never said a pistol would use an ACOG X4 zoom....

but there are people who uses them with small aimdots or holo sights because a pistol with no night sight is hard to use, and they are not as accurate as using a holo sight.

and yes, i forgot weapons can have 2 side barrel attachments, as i forgot about the attachment under the barrel of the pistol, for wich an IR laser, visible red laser, or a flash could be mounted

Actually the standar rifle has just 4 attachments port, for scopes, GL/hand grip, muzzle, and barrel, not 8.

Let's count on a SOPMOD M4...
Muzzle - 1 slot
RIS rail on top - basically 3 slots (example: AIMPOINT 3xMAG+CompM3+LPI)
RIS side rails left+right: 2 slots (handguards or additional stuff)
Bottom RIS rail: 2 slots (tactical foregrip+flashlight)
Magazine: 1 slot.
Basically, 9 slots here.

Alghough, the division is pretty arbitrary. The RIS rails are not "slot-based", actually. For the sake of the game, some limitations may also be applied.

Basically, we have only 2 types of attachments - lasers and flashlights; to not have the weapon overloaded, it's fair to limit those to 2 side rails. The scopes "chaining" will not most likely be present; hence, the scopes will most likely be in one piece (even the AIMPOINT CompM3 + 3xMAG combo). Hence, only one slot is needed.
That yields 6 slots total: muzzle (1) + side rails (2) + top/bottom rails (2) + magazine. Adding more is going to be an overshoot, IMHO.

This issue was processed by our team and will be looked into. We thank you for your feedback.

Please keep the issue monitored to see when it is fixed.

@DarkWanderer:
I've left the slot system, because it's the best compromise between many possibilities of reality and limited ways in which things can be programmed into the game, without taking too much effort and time. There needs to be some flexibility, but within certain rules, so the weapon mods creation can be more streamlined and standardized.

If the "Red Orchestra style" scopes get implemented, we may yet see chained scopes. Even if I myself like the current scope design, I also think about the wishes of others and leave room for different possibilities. The current scope system could also be used for making it a NV scope, with the help of additional attachment, in the same way as adding NVGs to character's head make it NV-capable. In Arma2 you had a two mode scope, toggled with N. In Arma3, instead of pressing N while zoomed in, you go to the inventory and attach/take out the NV addon. The end result would be the same, but the process would become more interactive.

While we're at SOPMOD, maybe someone wants a setup like this:
http://www.dandbmilitaria.com/images/T/xctmpjVdgxJ.png

It was available in America's Army, only with Trijicon Reflex Sight, at least when I played it some time ago.

If someone wants to have something on every rail at the same time, I say let's allow for that, because that fits Arma's overall sandbox concept. Do what you like. Milsim oriented communities will place some restrictions on attachments anyway and everyone will be happy.

And for really silly ideas, we have a system preventing this already in place, so that you can't attach suppressor to a scope slot and aim while looking through where the bullet usually goes.

Hi, isnt http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=2766
also related? It has 415 votes BTW :-)

Yes, it is. I remember reading this issue, hence a special thought given to modmakers. Unfortunately I wasn't able to find it again.

"Muzzle - 1 slot
RIS rail on top - basically 3 slots (example: AIMPOINT 3xMAG+CompM3+LPI)
RIS side rails left+right: 2 slots (handguards or additional stuff)
Bottom RIS rail: 2 slots (tactical foregrip+flashlight)
Magazine: 1 slot.
Basically, 9 slots here."

Dark, how do i explain this to you... maybe i forgot about the upper barrell rail because its something just a few guns have, but:

Sights/upper reciever rail : 1
muzzle : 1
Side rails : 1/2
Bottom rails : 1 (flashlight is in the side rail, and the foregrip can also be changed for a GL, or sometimes a secondary gun)

Magazines dont count.

there you go, 4 standar rails for most of the weapons, nowdays weapons are using 2 side barrel rails.

Dark, how do i explain this to you... maybe i forgot about the upper barrell rail because its something just a few guns have, but
there you go, 4 standar rails for most of the weapons, nowdays weapons are using 2 side barrel rails.

Nowadays weapon *practically always* use rails for scopes (even a simplest AK47 has a Warsaw Pact mounting dovetail), so the argument is not valid ;) Most weapons don't have not have side/bottom rails, though.

However, you're talking about "regular" weapons, but the system *must* be adapted for the extreme cases (like I described), otherwise it won't work at all. Having an old M16 somewhere doesn't change the fact that there exist modern rifle like mentioned SOPMOD M4 (example of the kind of setup I've described: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3307/3450575663_3a990074cc.jpg) and Bushmaster ACR (http://world.guns.ru/userfiles/images/civil/civ018/masada-2.jpg). Speaking about "regular weapons" we better just go play old OFP.

I mentioned magazine because it also takes an _interface_ slot (i.e. place in the inventory screen). So, no, it *does* count.

I've left the slot system, because it's the best compromise between many possibilities of reality and limited ways in which things can be programmed into the game, without taking too much effort and time. There needs to be some flexibility, but within certain rules, so the weapon mods creation can be more streamlined and standardized.

I fully agree here, that's what I was saying in the second part of my post.

The AK-47 in the system I proposed, would have a single left side dovetail type attachment point. The 3D model would have specified mounting point in the appropriate position and the config would describe the type of this point. Any scope with the same point type in its config would fit and it's up to the maker, to ensure that the geometry is correct. But that would be as simple as modelling PSO-1 correctly. M16 with a scope/red dot mounting point on a carrying handle would use the same method.

But you've inspired me to take that a bit further and imagine a RIS adapter mounted to AK's dovetail: http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/4929/jacek1.jpg

There are two possibilities here:
An easy one would be to model the rifle with the adapter fixed from the beginning as a part of rifle's geometry. In the config and in the inventory it would be simply a rifle with a single upper aft RIS rail. Mounting of classic Russian dovetail scopes would not be possible and would require having another AK model.

Another, more interesting but also more complicated method, would be having an adapter attachment. It would occupy dovetail slot, like a PSO-1 would do, but instead of providing a scope straight away, it would only enable a second slot, which would accept modern RIS-compatible accessories.

It would look like this (the top attachments row from my screenshot):

Standard AK
[dovetail] [X] [X] [X]

With adapter
[adapter mounted] [X] [X] [RIS rail]

After dragging a modern scope to the RIS rail
[adapter mounted] [X] [X] [modern scope mounted]

In the config, it would require having a scope "looking" for any active attachment point of correct type, doesn't matter if it's associated directly with a weapon in player's hands or with another accessory (adapter) mounted on player's weapon.

pystub added a subscriber: pystub.May 7 2016, 1:56 PM

I see no real reason as why not to implement an actual rail system. The rails have notches, meaning discrete positions of attachments, there is no backwards compatibility to be looking after either. Maybe kerning and animation matching, but these aren't unsolvable.

Dark, i dont know why, but your comment was badly redacted, i had to read it several times and i still dont get it, i never said the upper rail for scopes are just in nowdays weapons, i just said that modern weapons are using 2 sidebarrels rails, i knew that most of them used to have just 1 for the right side, and most of the guns still dont have an lower barrel rail.

Feature as far I can tell...

Bohemia added a subscriber: Bohemia.May 7 2016, 1:56 PM

+100, I want to attach to my rifle: shotgun+flashlight+Taser+IR laser and GL

kol9yn, if that's a COD joke, i think no one needs to explain that in the real life there are over 100 attachments that can be used on most of the weapons, and not even 10 of them are used by the soldiers nowdays, we dont want common infantry to spawn with an under the barrel shotgun, we just want attachments for fun or for making personal weapons in MP or in certain missions

I love this idea, but I also really like how much thought and effort you have put into this ticket. +1, I really hope this gets implemented.