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Helicopter HUD moves with head
Closed, ResolvedPublic

Description

The aiming point of the KA-60 (for the Gun) is not fixed relative to the helicopter like in the AH-9, so one can not aim after moving the view.
Especially, using TrackIR, one can not anticipate where the bullets will hit. {F16747}

Details

Legacy ID
2070418175
Severity
Tweak
Resolution
Open
Reproducibility
Always
Category
Ingame UI
Steps To Reproduce

Fly the Ka-60; rotate view using Numpad or TrackIR -> Bullets will not hit aiming point in HUD, but fly straight.

Event Timeline

Phobon edited Steps To Reproduce. (Show Details)Mar 5 2013, 7:16 PM
Phobon edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
Phobon set Category to Ingame UI.
Phobon set Reproducibility to Always.
Phobon set Severity to Tweak.
Phobon set Resolution to Open.
Phobon set Legacy ID to 2070418175.May 7 2016, 10:31 AM
Kit added a subscriber: Kit.May 7 2016, 10:31 AM
Kit added a comment.Mar 6 2013, 9:25 AM

Very hard to aim the guns on this thing while using Track IR due to this issue.

I believe it's correct - the HUD being mounted in the helmet, similar to the AH-64. I could be wrong, though. By all means correct me if I am.

Phobon added a subscriber: Phobon.May 7 2016, 10:31 AM

Even if it's correct that the HUD moves with the helmet, we need a crosshair that shows where the gun is aiming. (Or the gun would have to move in a certain range to where you're aiming like e.g. the one on the KA-50 does IRL)

derdoe added a subscriber: derdoe.May 7 2016, 10:31 AM

Quite simple fix for this, reset your view with NUMPAD 5 before shooting and you will hit accurately.

Its a known Arma flaw, has been there since ArmA1.

The Apache has the benefit of having a gunner. So the moving HUD doesn't interfere too much.

Something like the dot sight on the Littlebirds cannons would be great.
(Although that also disappears when you use free-look. (No head-tracking, 2X Alt))

[Edit] While I have a head-tracking system, my current layout makes it a little difficult, so I tend to use free look and the thumb-mouse on my HOTAS, with another button assigned to reset view. It works OK, but something to help /would/ be useful.

@derdoe: This doesn't help with TrackIR, unfortunately.
Since the Littlebird has a perfectly working crosshair, I think BI could just add it to the KA-60 as well (and keep the moving HUD as is). That way everyone would be happy :)

@derdoe: The numpad keys have no function if a TrackIR is enabled and present. This creates the odd situation that users with head trackers are at a disadvantage, when they should be advantaged.

The realistic but difficult solution would be for the gun pipper to stay in the same place while the pitch ladder moves with the HMCS.

The simple solution would be for the crosshairs to appears and function exactly as in the AH-9.

@ Derdoe

If it's been an issue since Arma I, all the more reason to fix it now.

My temporary fix has been to disable TracIR right as I'm about to swing in for an attack run.

SYSTEM added a subscriber: SYSTEM.May 7 2016, 10:31 AM

helmet hud with guns that are remotely aimed by that hud would be awesome :)

For trackIR users, most certainly :)

For those without, I imagine that would be an effort in frustration.

p00d73 added a subscriber: p00d73.May 7 2016, 10:31 AM
p00d73 added a comment.Mar 8 2013, 5:57 PM

Really important. I believe making the HUD aim point behave like a collimator (parallax on infinite) would be the most realistic solution. That way you could still look around, but only see the reticle when looking at the target.

MaxiM added a comment.Mar 13 2013, 9:07 PM

This is gamebreaking for headtrack users. All that we really need is the HUD from Take on Helicopters (screenshot attached). X shows where you're looking (like the current HUD in the helmet), hevron is a fixed 'crosshair' and the circle shows the direction in which the helo is flying (kinda compensates for the lack of gravity). Even if simplified, it would still be great.

IRL, this kind of helmet could easily display a crosshair, so +1.

D34 added a subscriber: D34.May 7 2016, 10:31 AM
D34 added a comment.Mar 14 2013, 1:40 PM

some kind of fix might be necessary, especially if other birds in full game have similar configurations. I played through the helicopter showcase with TIR, and had to walk shots to target - with minigun that was OK, but ran out of rockets pretty quick :)

MrBen added a subscriber: MrBen.May 7 2016, 10:31 AM
MrBen added a comment.Mar 17 2013, 1:12 AM

A nice idea would be to a have a fixed crosshair that only becomes visible when your HUD is over where the crosshair should be. So no perminant one is visible, but it will appear when focusing on aiming. Something akin to a ILS system, if that makes sense?

scrim added a subscriber: scrim.May 7 2016, 10:31 AM
scrim added a comment.Mar 18 2013, 2:22 PM

Well, isn't that to allow you too lock on something that isn't right in front of the helicopter?

@scrim, Many real aircraft have helmet mounted targeting systems that allow pointing the weapon or sensor with the HMTS. That's not modeled in the game however and the KA-60 modeled has a fixed outboard cannon and unguided rockets so nothing to point with the helmet mounted cueing system. The HMCS is a nice thing on it's own but it should integrate a gunsight of some sort that is always aligned with the gun. Or just a static boresight cross that isn't on the HUD.

upvoted
(re screenshot)i want the takeon instruments hud in arma - hope they add it with the flight model

Ka60 has missiles capable of locking onto ground armor units, but not air units, so there is actually a good reason for letting the thing move.

For Track-IR users: Simply define a "deadzone" for your system.

Also it is very much possible to use the numpad wih TackIR - at least I can do it.

Still - if you define a deadzone in your software, then your aim will snap to the needed position and aiming becomes easy again.

Nevertheless - I am all for a working crosshair.

Flaw added a subscriber: Flaw.May 7 2016, 10:31 AM
Flaw added a comment.Jun 8 2013, 9:34 PM

While the deadzone and on/off toggle for Track IR can be used as a workaround, it's far from an ideal one.

The big thing about Track IR (at least for me) is immersion. Any head movements _should_ result in corresponding ingame movements. A deadzone utterly breaks this and turns Track IR into just yet another controller.

Without deadzone you quite quickly forget about Track IR as a controller and instead feel like you simply look around ingame. Due to this, I never use any deadzone, ever.

So yeah, it's a workaround, but a bad one. Would be awesome with a proper fix.

i think the pic of TOH in chernarus is useless, try pressing "numpad 5" if that happends, should fix the problem

This is an issue with the newly introduced gunships too.

Agreed, as a TrackIR user, this needs to be fixed. The new gunships in the beta also have this problem, and they shoot rockets too!

Edited title, since this affects more than just the KA-60.

Upvoted, however, the moving hud is good cause you can mark targets by looking at them. There should be crosshair which always stays in the spot you are going to shoot at. Also, Mi-48 seems to be shooting to the left. Or maybe I am just looking to the right, i dont know.

They actually had this at one point in Arma 2 for the AH64, but it was broken after a patch... So it is possible.

@JojoTheSlayer. What did they have and why is it impossible now?

I dont really remember which A2 patch it was possible in, but you could go into the pilot seat of the AH64, select manual fire and the 30mm and shoot where you were looking with Track Ir.

Why it was removed or if it was even removed on purpose of accident I dont know.

I see. But the point is not to shoot where you are looking, but to have a crosshair stuck to a place where bullets and rockets will go in manual fire same as in AH-9, MH-9

Maffa added a subscriber: Maffa.May 7 2016, 10:31 AM
Maffa added a comment.Aug 5 2013, 4:16 PM

i second the issue: there are veichles that have HUDs reproduced on the visors (i.e. F35's HMDs) with some or all weaponry enslaved to it but all the other have a fixed panel in front of them and it should travel around the cockpit. while it would be totally great having a working HMD, it would be OP against those not having a head tracking device. So i just be happy if i could have my HUD in fron of me while a freely move my head around the cockpit

Fri13 added a subscriber: Fri13.May 7 2016, 10:31 AM

It is just weird that so many future helicopter in game now has no actual slaved weapons to helmet like these days they are.

When South Africa developed the aiming system for their fighter pilots it made dog fights (etc) much easier.

In helicopters targeting systems the helmet is huge help as you can promote specific target/area and then just adjust more accurately the aiming if needed.

I would accept that FaceTrackNoIR/FreeTrack/TrackIR users gets the benefit as they do have the weapons system slaved to helmet HUD.
You don't need expensive TrackIR but just a webcam (now suggestion is Logitech C525, 625 or 925 as they have wide angle from 68 degree to 75 degree) and even C525 is cheap (30-40€) and FaceTrackNoIR works very well as long face is lighted from front.

It would raise the game immersion way better but would require that helicopters weapons can be changed. Even on miniguns on wings should have a small angle (+/- 5-10 on X axis and +5/-20 on Y angle) possibilities for aiming.

Over 20 years from now, wouldn't it be expected to see that current technology would be more widely used even in more common vehicles? Soldiers have fancy helmet systems with visors but then helicopters don't have slaved weapons to that?

Mi-48 and RAH-99 would turn to be more powerful attack helicopters because pilot and gunner can control their primarily weapon (cannon) just by turning head.

And eventually it would not be so huge blowback to those who don't have webcam and any Track system combo, as freelook (Alt/2xAlt) would give them exactly same benefit.

Thats because when you are a pilot, the helmet you wear links with the targetting system and acts as an actual hud overlay. If you are the gunner, you should have a built in system to use.

Very much agreed with this. For this reason alone I needed to bind a mouse key to pause TrackIR to aim in some helos. I really shouldn't need to.

I also submit that HUD functions for aircraft should be tied into the kind of glasses being worn by the player as opposed to being a cybernetic organism.

Ok, this is frustrating me to no end. I played Arma III helos for hours and hours this weekend trying to perfect my chopper flying. I thought perhaps I was flying incorrectly, aiming incorrectly, landing incorrectly - doing anything with precision while using head tracking seemed to not work quite right. So I decided to install Take On Helicopters and get some lessons and experience, assuming it was my fault. But after becoming well practiced in ToH, it was obvious that the problem was with Arma - Arma III has this #### broken HUD that follows you everywhere when head tracking is enabled, so I can't tell where my chopper is really going/aiming/etc. I'm stuck between disabling my head tracking or taking a wild stab in the dark whenever I want to take aim with a weapon or for landing. So, for now, I have to map a key to disabling head tracking to my flight stick - which is lame. This ticket was submitted in March 2013 - almost a year ago. Please get on this and fix it like you did in Take On Helicopters.

tommes added a subscriber: tommes.May 7 2016, 10:31 AM

Same here. First I thought the weapons in the Arma 3 Showcase "Helicopters" would be guided...but no. Wonder why this doesn't get fixed where the solution obviously is already in existence...

Same issue here with FreetrackIR, as expected. Any kind of fix would be an improvement... CCIP, just a fixed crosshair.

i think the most effective solution would be to make the PO missiles guided, it wouldn't make sense for an armed transport chopper not to have guided rockets.

It only mentions the Orca, but I assume it will apply to others as well?

oukej added a comment.Sep 3 2014, 11:33 AM

It will :)

Nice :) glad to see this is finally being implemented.

That new HUD is a gorgeous piece of work! Really looking forward to seeing the other HUDs get this TLC too :) Massive thanks oukej and BI!

oukej added a comment.Sep 3 2014, 6:40 PM

All the kudos go to the engine and config guys!

(There are also some known issues with roll and X axes of head movement)

I already tried using this new "forward vector", it's progress, but it ain't the best solution. I'm currently creating custom HMDs for all the helos, and when i got to the comanche, i applied the new vector into the gun/missile, radar contacts, target selected, TVV and more stuff, but they work good when u move your head in the horizontal axis, but once u pitch your head while looking to the sides it goes off, a lot. I have everything pointing where it should be, until i do that. If this is to be fixed, well, hello to actual Helmet Mounted Displays ;)

Can you guys (BIS) update the HUD reference in the wiki? Because there's a lotta stuff that isn't pointed out there, for example type="radar";

@Astaroth I've checked - it's resolved. Ticket can be closed.

Astaroth closed this task as Resolved.Sep 3 2019, 2:05 PM
Astaroth claimed this task.

Thanks for confirmation.

Groove_C removed a subscriber: Groove_C.Sep 4 2019, 5:31 PM