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Nonsence: weapon with the sound suppressor has a more damage effect, than weapon without sound suppressor! (1 video)
Closed, ResolvedPublic

Description

Watch this video proof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeMg0ecJto8&feature=youtu.be
If you shoot at the enemy dressed in armor, then I need two shots to kill him, but if you use sound suppressor, then the enemy can be killed with one shot!!!
Why the weapon with the sound suppressor has a large damage effect, than weapon without sound suppressor!? This is great nonsense!!!
It should be the opposite! A weapon without a sound suppressor should have more damage effect, than a weapon with a sound suppressor.
Plase Fix this nonsense!

Details

Legacy ID
799840076
Severity
None
Resolution
No Bug
Reproducibility
Always
Category
Balancing
Steps To Reproduce

Event Timeline

mickeymen edited Steps To Reproduce. (Show Details)Jan 6 2015, 1:44 AM
mickeymen edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
mickeymen set Category to Balancing.
mickeymen set Reproducibility to Always.
mickeymen set Severity to None.
mickeymen set Resolution to No Bug.
mickeymen set Legacy ID to 799840076.May 7 2016, 8:03 PM
Bohemia added a subscriber: Shields.Jan 6 2015, 1:44 AM
lGhostl added a subscriber: lGhostl.May 7 2016, 8:03 PM

Modern silencers don't really decrease the velocity of the round and in some cases increases the velocity. Take in account that Arma is based in the future thus the silencer could very well increase damage. But at that range a velocity change wouldn't do too much. So yes it does make sense that 1 shot with a silenced weapon could kill, rather than 1 without a silencer.

Iceman added a comment.Jan 6 2015, 9:51 AM

Hello,
thank you for reporting the issue. The suppressors are not really reducing the bullet speed. They effectively serve as a barrel extension and therefore can even increase the bullet travel speed. Suppressor serves to reduce the muzzle flash. There are silencers that reduce the speed of the bullet, but these are not present in Arma (there was a research within the development team about the implementation).
Please, see feedback tracker ticket #0006302 and also comment section in particular.
http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=6302#c57721

Stop! then why in Field Manual written about what a weapon with a sound suppressor deals less damage?

PS: What we see in the game, is a bad balance. A weapon with a silencer should cause less damage. This should be a fee for the lack of muzzle flash and the lack of volume of shot.

Well micky if you want it to be realistic then it is currently correct in game. Modern silencers slightly increase the damage with the extra velocity like I had said.

Again! then why in Field Manual written about what a weapon with a sound suppressor deals less damage?
Initially, the one who wrote this, believed in it.
Now for some reason, everything changed on the contrary.

@YarwoodUK

Yes it is based in the future but the way weapons act are all similar to the way they would today. I mean look at the the .50 Lynx its a real weapon, but is still used in Arma which like you said is based in 2035.

@Micky

Yeah they should change that in the manuel.

ATTENTION! In this case, the Player should always be to strive to put a sound suppressor on any weapon, because silencer no has flaws!!! The sound suppressor will give the player only bonuses!

This is bad, because then disappears element of strategy to the game.
NOTE THIS!
The player will no longer need to think when to use the sound suppressor! Or when not to use sound suppressor.
BIS, you have deprived the game of tactical choice.

Dude, play another game if you want "balanced gunplay".
God, I hate this.

And yes, effecitvely, using a sound suppressor will always be the best choice.
If you want to think about using suppressors or not, join a community that aims to play in a realistic way and takes into account that issuing silencers simply costs money.

There is also this, you can always tweak config the way you like or add another silencer that will slow bullets. Release it as a mod and there is nothing evil BIS devs could do about it since your mod will load last and ovewrite default behaviour.

How has that completely deprived the game of tactical choice? It's a simulator and they made the silencer realistic, get over it.

"How has that completely deprived the game of tactical choice? It's a simulator and they made the silencer realistic, get over it."

Where's the realism? The silencer can not increase damage effect.
Again: In this case, the Player should always be to strive to put a sound suppressor on any weapon, because silencer no has flaws!!!
And Again: The sound suppressor will give the player only bonuses!
Where is the tactical choice!? Players don't have to think when to use it, because now it is necessary to use always.

First of all, we are dealing with a game! Gameplay of the game should be interesting and should have possibility of tactical choices!
If you want to make war as realistic as possible, then you don't need much to get involved!
In war a soldier may be diarrhea, why it wasn't there in the game!?
Realism should be limited to the interesting part of the gameplay.

Where's the realism? Silencers would increase damage in real life from the extra velocity like I said before, there's your realism. And how is it necessary to use a silencer? I'm not FORCED against my will to use them. Yeah that's what everyone wants shitting. BIS add shitting to the game you game ruining, silencer over powering bastards. (Sarcasm)

Because the sound causes a shock wave generated during supersonic flight of the bullet from the barrel, the most radical and effective - and, in addition, the only way to fix the sound or volume reduce it to a minimum, in all probability, will decrease the initial velocity of the bullet to less than the speed of sound in air is approximately 332-340 m/s. Only this will greatly reduce the sound!
If you are not using subsonic ammo, then the shot will be loud and the silencer can not increase the power of the bullet. This would likely only reduce fluctuations weapons and reduce recoil (because there is more weight on the end of the barrel). It only can improve accuracy of fire, but does not damage effect!

But I think the problem is not the lack of realism! This is Gameplay problem!
Today(v1.36), the gameplay with silencer is built not interested.
The player don't need to think when to use the sound supressor, because the sound supressor no has flaws, and even give bonuses. It means that the sound supressor you want to use always! This is main problem! Do you not see this!?
If the sound supressor had flaws, then the player have to think when to use it.
It is in these moments the game has a tactical choice, but with a silencer without flaws, the player loses the opportunity to have a tactical choice.

The negative aspects of the suppressor are:

  • Extended barrel (more visible from distance,)
  • Greater inertia of the weapon
  • Faster and more intensive thermal imaging reflection
  • Decreased durability of the weapon (not simulated in game)

Thank you for your points, they have been acknowledge. However, it is a design decision and the behavior of the suppressors is intended as it is.
Thank you for your feedback.

"Extended barrel (more visible from distance,)"

+ 25-30 cm and already the problem? At large distances it is not noticeable. Also within a game, the AI does not respond to the additional barrel length. This may not be a disadvantage in the game.

"Greater inertia of the weapon"
Inertia must be no greater. Shouls be lesser, because at the end of the barrel, an additional weight. This should reduce the inertia.

Also in the game I haven't seen more inertia when using the silencer.

"Faster and more intensive thermal imaging reflection"
Why? It is not logical. The silencer reduces muzzle flash.

This is the opposite should be less noticeable in thermal view.

"However, it is a design decision and the behavior of the suppressors is intended as it is"
I do not argue about realism or about game design.
We should think how to improve the game and make gameplay more fun and interesting.
I would like to see interesting gameplay and be able have tactical choice for the player.
For this reason, within the game, the sound supressor must have real disadvantages.

Here made little script that will reduce bullet velocity x10 (0.1) if player has suppressor

player addeventhandler ["Fired", {
_silencer = player weaponAccessories currentMuzzle player select 0;
if (!isNil "_silencer" && {_silencer != ""}) then {

		_b = _this select 6; 
		_b setvelocity ((velocity _b) vectormultiply 0.1);

};
}];

No need to make a mod. If you still feel the need to discuss this issue, please create a thread on the forums. As far as this ticket is concerned it is resolved. I am tempted to close it but Iceman is very nice man and thinks it is unnecessary.

Ok. Thanks for the script. I can satisfy myself, if I use your script.
Please tell me where I should insert it?
Today I am not very good in scripting of Arma.

depends on what you want to do. If it is for playing in editor, either put it in your player unit init or press esc when in editor paste it in debug console and press exec

Modern silencers increase velocity which for some reason you can't grasp. Then take into account that Arma 3 doesn't take place in modern times it takes place in the future. Read this.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/05/foghorn/ask-foghorn-does-a-silencer-effect-the-velocity-of-the-bullet/

Give up guys, some people are resistant to learn and akowledge facts.

@lGhostl

My friend, you I want to prove that the silencer does not slow down the speed of a bullet. I know it. But, I want to say that the silencer may not increase damage effect. This is what we see in ARMA today.

"Modern silencers increase velocity which for some reason you can't grasp"

What reasons, if the primary purpose of the silencers is hiding the sound of shooting!?
And to hide the sound, it is necessary that the bullet was flying at slow speed (used special subsonic ammo) The speed of bullet, must be subsonic (it is more slowly than the normal speed) And it's a law of physics today and in the future and always!
Then, how the silencer increases the speed of the bullet? This is contrary to his purpose!

Silencers reroute gunpowder and gas to keep the shot silenced. You don't have to decrease velocity to make it silent.

It is possible, but it will not be fully effective. This bullet will have a click sound.

I think what need:

  1. Not increase damage, when shooting with a silencer.(standard ammo)
  2. Add to the game special subsonic ammunition.
  3. Standard bullets to make a some quieter, than without silencer.(standard damage effect)
  4. Subsonic bullets to make almost noiseless and without clicking. (less damage effect)

Then it will be realistic and more interesting!

Your last note is a feature request. I believe that all arguments have been said (and repeated multiple times), current implementation is desired. Thank you, closing the ticket.