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SDAR underpowered
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The SDAR (scuba) is extremely ineffective and underpowered. I did some tests in the editor and found that it takes 2-3 shots (to the head) at point blank range to kill an enemy. I also found that once an enemy crosses the 40 meter threshold, damage is reduced to the point where it takes up to 20 rounds to take out a single enemy (body shots). I know I am not missing because I disabled the AI and the enemy was standing perfectly still. I also tested it on civilian NPCs and found that the damage was unchanged. In the scuba showcase, I found that it was best to try to take out a single enemy and use his rifle to win the fight. I hope this a bug and not intentional.


Legacy ID
No Bug
Steps To Reproduce

Spawn a scuba soldier as the player and place enemy combatants (with or without AI) at range intervals of 10 meters each until you reach 50 meters. You will notice a sharp drop in power with each target.

Event Timeline

kirtanloorii edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
kirtanloorii set Category to Balancing.
kirtanloorii set Reproducibility to Always.
kirtanloorii set Severity to None.
kirtanloorii set Resolution to No Bug.
kirtanloorii set Legacy ID to 2321004241.May 7 2016, 2:01 PM
MadDogX added a subscriber: MadDogX.May 7 2016, 2:01 PM

EDIT: Actually, it seems the ineffectiveness of the underwater rounds outside of water is indeed exagerrated. Re-opening, pending further investigation.

Some reference:

"According to the available sources, the expected service life of the APS when fired "in theair" degrades severely, and the effective range is limited only to severaltens of meters."

"including the SPP-1 pistol and APS underwater assault rifle. The main drawback of these weapons is that their effectiveness (and life expectancy) for use above the water is severely degraded compared to standard 'above water' weapons."

"Out of water the APS can shoot, but its effective range does not exceed 50 meters, and the rifle's lifetime drops to 180 shots in air from 2000 shots underwater."

"Muzzle velocity: 365 meter per second (in air)" <- APS rifle

Suggestion: While over water, the speed decrease and energy dropoff, with distance travelled, should be gauged in such a way, that up to 40-50m UW bullets are lethal.

dovafox added a subscriber: dovafox.May 7 2016, 2:01 PM

To be honest, it is quite the same like this one
The reason you have to shoot more than once to kill someone is because of the "extended armor". If you try put the difficulty to the hardest and try one hit with your gun there?

I'm not sure about the extended armour effect. With it enabled, I was able to kill with one pistol bullet to the helmet, at point blank. Also I've seen one shot kills from 400-900m afar. It seems that extended armour works in a more complex way.

This weapon is not intended to be used on surface. It's underwater gun..

well this was educational. Kinda wish BIS would include some of the history and roots of weapons, ammunitions etc as an educational course =)

But on topic, reading the articles, seems what BIS has implimented is on the right track, however a bit over exagerated. I mean sure effectiveness beyond 40m drops excessively, but 3 rounds to the face? 20 rounds in the torso? That is over exagerated indeed. I believe 1 shot to the face is pretty standard for any weapon as a kill (or to vegetize someone at the least), and torso, with body armour, 10 rounds max (even that feels overexagerated)

just my 2cents =)

Too low damage on close battle... its unfair.. 15g + 350m/s = ~900 Joules.....

Underwater ammo is designed to work that way. Extended armor is solved in another ticket (#6747). I will close this. Thank you for your feedback.