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[Feedback] Issues with leaning implementation, lean spam, and mitigations
Awaiting internal Testing, NormalPublic

Description

Game Version number: 1.4.0.48
Modded?: No

Issue Description:
Leaning is a core and integral feature of Arma. I adored how leaning was implemented in the RV titles (Arma 3,2, old DayZ), and it was one of my favourite implementations in the milsim/tactical FPS market. However, leaning implementations in the Enfusion titles (Reforger and new DayZ) reveal some issues that I just can't shake off.

If these problems aren't going to be addressed in Reforger, I hope to at least see it addressed in Arma 4 and future DayZ title.

Problem #1: Lean Spam
This is an issue that I hear more and more complaints about in the community. The problem is people spamming QEQE (leaning) while ADAD strafe spamming. It's become an issue in REFORGER and not previous titles because of...
a) How effective strafe spam is due to the ability to side-strafe at a very fast, jog-like speed and there being no inertia when changing strafe directions
b) There's no movement slowdown at all when leaning during all strafe movements (side-to-side and forward locomotion)

This is quite an issue because not only do people try to exploit it in engagements to disrupt their silhouettes to dodge bullets, but it also ruins the authentic and immersive presentation of a gunfight when you see someone weaving their head left and right in open engagements.
To see a better real-world example, please see the video in "Additional Information".

Mitigation:
ARMA 2 or 3 addresses it perfectly. Make it so that you are slowed down to a slower, walk-like speed when you are leaning

This is perfect because leaning should slow you down to a more tactical pace anyway, as it should primarily be used for peeking and clearing angles!

Problem #2: Leaning Animations
Reforger's lean animation poses are great, but in practice, they feel off.

  1. The lean angles are too much, which feels strange (3PP)
  2. There's too much gun tilt, and the arm positions feel and look off (1PP)
  3. There are artifacts like candy-wrapper skinning and occasional juddery blending while transitioning lean angles from left (Q) to right (E) or vice/versa sometimes
NOTE: Both Arma Reforger and Arma 2 are using ~90 Degrees VFOV and an AK74 to be as equal as possible

Arma 2, on the other hand, feels great. The lean angle, gun tilt, and arm positions all feel natural. Arma 3 does as well for the most part.

Reforger's arm skinning also suffers from the candy-wrapper effect due to the arrangement of the arm joints and the nature of linear blend skinning (dual quaternion supremacy 😁).
So Arma 2's arm joint positions are more naturalistic looking and doesn't visibly/noticeably suffer from the candy-wrapper artifact -- win-win!

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OPTIONAL ADDENDUM: I also surveyed other games and noted characteristics of their leaning implementations. These other games have great feeling lean mechanics that intentionally limit the leaning angle and/or reduce movement speed while leaning to address some of these issues.

Details

Severity
Tweak
Resolution
Open
Reproducibility
N/A
Operating System
Windows 11 x64
Operating System Version
24H2
Category
General
Steps To Reproduce
  1. Spam ADAD while in high-ready
  2. Spam QEQE (lean left and right) to lean spam simultaneously
  3. Note the high strafe speeds at which you can lean and the effectiveness of throwing off your silhouette while performing this tactic
Additional Information

Here are just a few examples of lean spam in multiplayer. This was quite a problem in SQUAD until the developers tweaked leaning and effectively eliminated the issue. It's also quite prevalent in modern-day DayZ Standalone PvP combat.

EDIT: The clip in T182442 shows just how far people go to exploit this lean spammy behaviour 😂. Really hope to see this gone in ArmA and DayZ

Related Objects

Event Timeline

Geez changed the task status from New to Awaiting internal Testing.Wed, Jul 30, 11:13 AM

@Geez This is more so feedback rather than a bug ticket. Would you prefer if I label these tickets as [Feedback] in the title?

However, some downright animation bugs do manifest in some of the videos in this ticket

  1. In the first clip in Additional Information, the left hand on the handguard glitches out (it goes palm facing up) while strafing and crouching with the AKS-74U
  2. When holding the AK-74 crouched and leaning right, the left forearm suffers from a candy-wrapper skinning artifact as seen in the 1st video under Problem #2: Leaning Animations
Geez added a comment.Wed, Jul 30, 11:52 AM

This is more so feedback rather than a bug ticket. Would you prefer if I label these tickets as [Feedback] in the title?

this would be helpful, thank you

jamielou.007 renamed this task from Issues with leaning implementation, lean spam, and mitigations to [Feedback] Issues with leaning implementation, lean spam, and mitigations.Wed, Jul 30, 11:57 AM
jamielou.007 edited Additional Information. (Show Details)Wed, Jul 30, 12:39 PM