Page MenuHomeFeedback Tracker

Strafe spam mitigation and Weapon Inertia
Feedback, NormalPublic

Description

Game Version number: 1.4.0.45
Modded?: No

Issue Description:
The Problem: Strafe spam and weapon inertia need no introduction with how much people are clamoring for it, but I'd like to offer my perspective on how it can be addressed. If not for Arma Reforger, I hope to see it in Arma 4 and future DayZ title.

These features (or lack thereof in the case of weapon|character inertia) lead to CQC and even mid-range combat devolving into people sliding and spinning around all the time. This leads to a huge loss in immersion, impact in authentic presentation, and leads to gunfights feeling gamey and frustrating. Even if you win the gunfight, you still don't feel good about it because the experience didn't feel as awesome and cinematic as it should have been due to the gamey mechanic abuse from you or your opponents.

My reference points will be Arma 2 because it didn't suffer from these issues (except for sprint zigzag) and DayZ Standalone Alpha (because I think it has a good weapon inertia implementation with some personal grievances). Of course, games like Escape from Tarkov, Insurgency, etc. all have great solutions too.

#1: Shouldering instability while in ADS. Strafing while ADS should come with visual inaccuracy penalties, and that can authentically come from the optic bouncing in each degree of freedom. This will invariably incentivize players to stand still if they want to accurately hit their target and only strafe to suppress the enemy. This feature also sells your weapon as living in 3D space instead of seeming like a 2D ViewModel overlay, so it has nice immersion benefits too

#2: Character inertia when changing strafe directions -- leading to ramp-up in velocity and no sliding feel, which is great for it feeling grounded.
In addition, Strafe Slowdown occurs when the firearm is in high-ready (see the Reddit post below for why this is good).


EDIT: Also, notice in the previous video how the firearm also demonstrates shouldering instability as it bounces while in point-fire stance. This is good visual feedback that your shooting while strafing will be less accurate than standing still. It also just looks more grounded and real.

#3: Weapon inertia. I've often seen in places like YouTube or the ARMA discord that being able to snap 360° on any target or using a M249 for room clearing because it's much more effective than an AKS-74U just feels wrong. I wholeheartedly agree.

I believe there should be weapon inertia dependent on firearm weight and barrel length so these concerns are diminished. More thought has to be put into picking a gun for room clearing because using a M249 as a jack of all trades will no longer be as viable.

BONUS: It's also a very nice visual flair to your firearms and helps sell them as grounded, weighty items living in 3D space and are affected by forces you impose on them -- which again is fantastic for immersion.

Clip from DayZ Standalone legacy. It can be a bit severe, so I wouldn't copy its intensity constant factors 1:1, but I do like its premise and design.

Now I'd like to mention the rationale behind these suggestions. The top comment in this reddit post illustrates as so

I'll be talking from a Danish doctrinal standpoint, as that's what I'm trained in, but it is not far off from other NATO member countries.

You don't move while shooting. You cannot shoot and run at the same time, at least properly.

You only move when the enemy is suppressed. When it's just your own squad present, you do "bounding overwatch" (I believe it's called in English), where one team moves and the other is suppressing. 3-4 guns standing still and suppressing while 3-4 are on the move. You "jump" for 4 seconds at a time, or roughly 10 meters.

When your entire platoon is present, you prefer to have 2 squads (that makes 12-16 guns) suppressing while the third squad moves.

Rarely can you make well-aimed shots that actually hits the enemy. You just shoot in their general direction - suppress.

What gamers often find difficult to understand, is that aiming and hitting your enemy in real life is a lot more difficult than in a point & click game, and soldiers in real life often just shoot in the enemy's general direction as opposed to sniping them accurately - but if it can be done, then it should.

It is physically draining to run just 10 meters at a time and then shoot. With the equipment we're carrying, you get your pulse up rather quickly. Well-aimed shots are neither realistic nor intended when conducting basic fire and maneuver. You just can't. But it doesn't matter, because you just need the enemy to keep their heads down so they're not shooting back, and that can easily be achieved. So that answers your fatigue and weapon-sway questions.

That's why I think Arma 2 and legacy DayZ Standalone on RV (alpha) did a great job in regards to slowing you down when you have your firearm in high-ready when strafing. It authentically depicted that your ability to return fire while strafing is challenging enough that you need to slow your pace down.

Details

Severity
Tweak
Resolution
Open
Reproducibility
N/A
Operating System
Windows 11 x64
Operating System Version
24H2
Category
Movement
Steps To Reproduce
  1. Spam A and D to strafe left and right in high ready and/or ADS -- strafing at high speeds, especially compared to Arma 2
  2. Dodge bullets and return fire quite accurately while doing this -- effectively 'exploiting' this behaviour
Additional Information

What inspired this ticket is

  • My experience engaging in infantry combat in Reforger (see the video clip below)
  • Concerns raised by the community (r/arma subreddit, the ARMA discord in channels like #reforger_feedback, and Ironbeard's "The Many METAs That Are Affecting Arma Reforger" along with its comment section -- seriously, please do read the comments and replies because a lot of infantry concerns are raised about strafe spam, character inertia, weapon inertia, lean spam, and jump spam)

This comment about Arma 2 being a good strafe implementation inspired this ticket
https://www.reddit.com/r/arma/s/oDLp5HBzOJ
I also highly agree with u/the_Demongod 's comment. He's an engine programmer and has programmed many player controllers for games, and thinks that Arma 1 and 2 had the "most realistic" feeling and lived-in controllers. Not only does it feel more authentic, but it helps counter these gamey issues like strafe and lean spam. I know many have complained about its clunkiness, but I primarily think it has to do with responsiveness. The inherent philosophy and design of the controller itself are excellent, however, and I think it helps Arma carve out a more sim-like, immersive, and weighty feeling movement, which is a huge differentiator from every other shooter out there.

Here is my experience, and it's one of many clips I have from patch 1.3. Please keep in mind this is on a stress test server with low server fps and high ping, but still, I think my character is just sliding way too fast when strafing, and the leaning also just makes it look very goofy. This is not possible in Arma 2. I don't have clips from this patch due to feeling worn out with the infantry experience as of late :(

Event Timeline

jamielou.007 changed Category from General to Movement.
jamielou.007 updated the task description. (Show Details)Thu, Jul 3, 9:25 AM
Geez changed the task status from New to Feedback.Thu, Jul 3, 12:17 PM
jamielou.007 updated the task description. (Show Details)Fri, Jul 4, 4:11 AM
jamielou.007 edited Additional Information. (Show Details)