Page MenuHomeFeedback Tracker

HEDP is worse than HE against armour
Closed, ResolvedPublic

Description

Game Version number: 1.3.0.55
Modded?: No (Yes/No)

Issue Description:
I've tested HE and HEDP rockets on a UH-1 a lot. I tested them on Mi-8 (side ~19%dmg vs >30%dmg), BTR-70 (side 6% vs ~15% + guaranteed ignition), LAV-25 (front ~2% vs ~6%, side ~4% vs ~12%), infantry (~2 killed vs 2-4 killed + ~3 heavily injured). In EACH scenario HEDP caused 2-3 times less damage to the vehicle, had less chance of igniting the vehicle, killed the same amount of crew members and passengers, and killed less infantry, making it completely useless.

Details

Severity
Tweak
Resolution
Open
Reproducibility
Always
Operating System
Linux x64
Category
General
Steps To Reproduce

The rockets could not hit different parts of targets, since both the targets and the UH-1 were on the ground immobilized. If the rockets hit different parts of the targets they will cause different amount of damage.

  1. Place a target on the ground and make sure it's not moving
  2. Place an UH-1 on the ground in a way that it can shoot the target (I used a helipad)
  3. Shoot the target once with an HE, switch to the GM, look at the HP of the target (or whatever you're testing) before the fire can cause additional damage, if there is any.
  4. Heal the target and repeat the previous step
  5. After you run out of HE rockets, repeat the previous step with HEDP instead of HE.

Additional Information

I tested damage against infantry in case that HE and HEDP rockets were mixed up.
I would understand if HEDP was worse against infantry, but better against vehicles, but it doesn't look to be the case. I can only guess now that the HEDP has more penetration, but I tested hits in frontal LAV-25 armor just for this. Both of the rockets only killed the driver and didn't kill any passengers. The damage of HEDP was 3 times worse. I'm also not sure how armor penetration works in this game, since it looks to be all based on HP and modules breaking.
The conclusion is that HEDP vehicle damage should be buffed by, for example, 5 times, so its 1,67-2,5 times better against vehicles than HE rockets (30% damage against the side armor of BTR-70 vs 15%).
I'm not sure that this will help though, since it only actually matters if you kill the crew and ignite the vehicle. In such scenario there is no one left to extinguish the fire, and the vehicle will die by itself. You do it this way because actually destroying a vehicle requires too much rockets and precision. So even if you buff the damage of HEDP, HE will still be better, since it will kill the crew just as effectively and also will kill infantry significantly better. But at least a buff is necessary, so HEDPs are not completely useless.

Event Timeline

Krozj created this task.Feb 8 2025, 10:34 AM
Geez changed the task status from New to Awaiting internal Testing.Feb 10 2025, 11:48 AM
Geez closed this task as Resolved.Mar 13 2025, 11:07 AM
Geez claimed this task.
Geez added a subscriber: Geez.

Resolved for one of the future updates.
Regards,
Geez

Krozj added a comment.Thu, Apr 17, 5:59 PM

I tested it in 1.3.0.157 with UH-1 against BTR in the same way, it looks like nothing changed. HEDP is still significantly worse than HE. The only thing I noticed is that HEDP is maybe a bit stronger against infantry, but that wasn't the main issue. Maybe I just don't get it, it seems like the issue is still there, but it would be nice if you could explain it to me if I'm wrong.

I looked on Wikipedia, it says that M229 (labelled as HE in game) has 2.2kg of explosive, whilst the M247 (labelled as HEDP in game) has 0.91kg. If the lined shaped charge (the DP part of HEDP) hits the engine or fuel, it will set fire. The explosive power of m247HEDP doesn't seem capable of it by itself, which seems to be accurate. not an expert though

Krozj added a comment.Thu, Apr 17, 9:17 PM

yeah, but i mean there is HP system for vehicles in the game, so I don't see any better way to simulate HEDP piercing potential than just more damage to vehicles. Otherwise these rockets really shouldn't be in the game, because people will use them expecting to be better against vehicles, but they are actually worse against anything. And they cost the same amount of supplies if I remember correctly

Krozj added a comment.Thu, Apr 17, 9:20 PM

also about fire. HE sets vehicles on fire better from my testing. DP is dual-purpose, from what I know, so it should be reasonable against everything.

HEDP is better at taking out armour in real life, because it has a HEAT warhead. Right now the only "armour" we have are light, thin skin APCS. I think it's probably pretty natural that pure HE rockets are highly effective against it. I understand what you're saying, but for right now I doubt things are gonna change. Maybe they might nerf explosions or something a bit since even 40mm HE rounds can kill people inside the vehicle.