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Maniphest T74656

Realistic Weapon Dispersion: Data Collection and Implementation
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Description

-This ticket will be updated as Information is assembled. Initial feedback about Idea is still welcome though, from devs especially, and config guys so I know if this is even possible. No clue how dispersion in the gun configs works.-

Request to review weapons dispersion values, and re-balance the weapons configurations to reflect dispersion behaviour seen in common firearms today.

Target: Low-mid dispersion assault rifles, mig-high dispersion pistols/short barreled SMGs, low-no dispersion marksman rifles, mid-high dispersion machineguns, no-nono dispersion sniper rifles.

Detailed information below.

Details

Legacy ID
3935617580
Severity
None
Resolution
Open
Reproducibility
N/A
Category
Feature Request
Steps To Reproduce

Modern firearms, despite the massive amounts of effort put into their design and construction, still exhibit inherent inaccuracies and will in the future. The question this thread asks is how large these dispersions are for modern firearms, how this compares to current weapon setup and how the weapons may be changed to more realistic behaviour.

The accuracy of firearms is measured in arcminutes (generally printed as MOA, or Minutes of Angle). 1 MOA at 100 yards is about 1 inch. (1 MOA at 100 meters = 2.908 centimeters.) The question to be answered now is, how accurate are ingame firearms currently, and how far off are they from the real life counterparts. Below I am detailing what we need to know to figure out the shot group size ingame, and what I found out about real life weapons approximating the weapons ingame.

Additional Information

Group size measurement: Accuracy target (Script to show points of impact?): how large is the accuracy circle in inches/cm?

Setup: Distance: 100 meters, weapon with SOS scope (no scope sway), slow-motion to increase precision. 10 - 15 shot groups.

Example dispersion: civilian, off the shelf AR-15 (M4): 1-1.5 MOA @ 100 yards. This would translate into about 3 to 4 centimeters shot group diameter ingame.

Event Timeline

InstaGoat edited Steps To Reproduce. (Show Details)Nov 25 2013, 9:45 PM
InstaGoat edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
InstaGoat set Category to Feature Request.
InstaGoat set Reproducibility to N/A.
InstaGoat set Severity to None.
InstaGoat set Resolution to Open.
InstaGoat set Legacy ID to 3935617580.May 7 2016, 5:30 PM
Bohemia added a subscriber: AD2001.Nov 25 2013, 9:45 PM
InstaGoat added a comment.Nov 25 2013, 10:35 PM

Curious initial finding: all weapons seem to have greatly -exagerrated- dispersion values. The MX is all over the plate at 100 meters. I am using http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?164294-Quick-and-fun-projectile-path-tracing! this to trace the bullets against the "simple target", on the salt flats.

I think what BI needs to consider as far as accuracy is concerned may not be the dispersion, but enabling "shooter error" in the AI, and allow the player to compensate for the same when using the new 3D scopes (which simulate this by misplacing the reticle as the head moves. Holding breath should center the scope.)

Possibly this is the way to go, and not tweaking the dispersion?

Goose added a subscriber: Goose.May 7 2016, 5:30 PM
Goose added a comment.Nov 25 2013, 11:49 PM

MX = 3 MOA
MX Compact = 3.8 MOA
MX Sniper = 2.2 MOA

GM6 Lynx = 1.3 MOA
CheyTac M200 = 0.6 MOA

EBR = 2.4 MOA
VS-121 = 2 MOA

machineabuse added a comment.Nov 26 2013, 1:51 AM

What may help is setting the global recoil value to 0, finding a way to disable the player animations and lastly firing the shot using a keyboard binding. That in effect would be the virtual equivalent of placing the weapon in a vice.

InstaGoat added a comment.Nov 26 2013, 6:00 PM

The numbers Goose reports coincide with what I found in testing. Dispersion seems to be generally too high, in fact. This is no problem, as far as I am concerned. The AI still is supremely accurate, which was the problem I thought could be alleviated with this to begin with.

Generally, what seems to be necessary is to introduce some kind of functionality that would make the AI do misaligning the optics or misjudging distance like players occasionally do.

gibonez added a subscriber: gibonez.May 7 2016, 5:30 PM
gibonez added a comment.Aug 22 2014, 9:40 AM

The in game dispersion seems pretty spot on.

You also have to remember that lots of factors are not being accounted for in game such as wind.

joostSidy added a comment.Aug 22 2014, 12:03 PM

Two things:

Are these findings purely for small-arms? I have the feeling that vehicle weapons cannons/miniguns have too small dispersion.

Another factor that might be needed to take into account is that I think the terrains are 'compressed' in space? In real life all features of terrain are further apart and firefights are generally over longer distances?

I'm not 100% sure of this, but I think this is the case because of performance and gameplay limits. A real infantry patrol through a valley could take hours. This is never the case in Arma.

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