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*Updated* 5.56mm penetration capability is too low / some materials have penetration values off
Assigned, WishlistPublic

Description

The 5.56mm can't even penetrate a 0.05 inch thin metal planel from a distance of >25 meters. This is completely unrealistic since there are documented penetrations of 1/4 inch steel by 5.56mm cartridge from 200 yards with lower mass bullets than military grade NATO standard ammunition.

Edit: it seems the problem is not the cartridges but the materials trying to be penetrated. These include atleast the metal panels of the sheds and brick / concrete walls that won't let even a .50cal round penetrate fired from point blank. Even the 7.62 NATO should be able to punch through the walls from close enough. {F22685} {F22686} {F22687} {F22688} {F22689}

Details

Legacy ID
973252101
Severity
None
Resolution
Open
Reproducibility
Always
Category
Game Physics
Steps To Reproduce
  1. Get Hypnomatic's projectile tracing script.
  2. Go further than 25m from a metal panel shack and shoot at it.
  3. Observe the results close by = no penetration.

Edit: take a .50cal and try to shoot through a brick or a concrete wall point blank = no penetration.

Additional Information

Penetration is a big part of ammunition's performance, it would be sad if this aspect of the game stays badly simulated.

The lowest mass military grade 5.56mm is the 4g (62 grain) SS109 FMJBT with muzzle velocity of 940 m/s. Here is a video showing lower mass 55 grain 5.56mm FMJ bullets penetrating 1/4 inch (0.635 cm) of steel into ballistic gel from 200 yards (183 m):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50_3Yyo0Nt0#t=190

Considering this and the fact metal panels used in the shack are no more than 0.05 inch (0.127 cm) thin, the penetration capability of the 5.56mm (and probably other cartridges aswel) should be way higher in Arma 3 than it is now.

Edit: The muzzle velocity info in the pic is false, should be 75-100% for the red bullet path, not 50-75%.

Event Timeline

Quantti edited Steps To Reproduce. (Show Details)Nov 3 2013, 10:23 AM
Quantti edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
Quantti set Category to Game Physics.
Quantti set Reproducibility to Always.
Quantti set Severity to None.
Quantti set Resolution to Open.
Quantti set Legacy ID to 973252101.May 7 2016, 5:19 PM

Is there any other issue with 5.56x45mm penetration or is it just this particular shack? If the latter is the case this one's a duplicate of #5164.

Unknown Object (User) added a subscriber: Unknown Object (User).May 7 2016, 5:19 PM
Unknown Object (User) added a comment.Nov 3 2013, 9:23 PM

Dup of #0010135

Quantti added a subscriber: Quantti.May 7 2016, 5:19 PM

@Deadfast For some reason it never occured to me that the problem could be in the material tried to be penetrated, not the round...

Anyway I played around with the 7.62 Mk18 and .50 cal sniper and to find out if there are more of the kinds of materials that have unrealistic penetration properties and it turns out there is atleast two more: a brick wall and a concrete wall/pillar.

The .50 cal sniper didn't penetrate a brick or a concrete wall nor the pillar even from a point blank range (new pics related). Even the 7.62 NATO round should penetrate the walls if shot close enough, just see this video of the round penetrating and tearing apart a concrete cinder block wall from 250 yards (around 230 meters):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwZPJgkF6G8

@Dr_Death I'm not sure if charecter damage modeling and penetration modeling have alot in common, so I don't think it's a duplicate... it was duplicate of the one posted by Deadfast alright, but I think I contributed atleast something new with the above remarks.

What's the status of this? Today some material tweaks have been announced in the dev build changelog.

Unknown Object (User) added a comment.Nov 4 2013, 4:42 PM

ArmA 3 is dynamic when talking about ballistic, so yes, i think this is both related and a dup.

Then again, i have yet to see BIS getting the ballistics right for once

The problem seems to be the penetration values of certain materials, not the damage done by projectiles - so it's definitely not a duplicate of your original report about 5.56mm making too little damage upon hitting a character. :)