Page MenuHomeFeedback Tracker

"ACP-C2" 1911 handgun too many rounds in the magazine and no bullet in chamber accounting
Reviewed, WishlistPublic

Description

When you equip the "ACP-C2," it says you have 9 rounds. This would be correct if you're taking into account the round in the chamber plus a full magazine. But this isn't the case. If you fire off all of your rounds until it is empty and do an empty reload, it'll still show as 9 rounds. Standard 1911 magazines hold 7 rounds, but most people use magazines that hold 8 rounds. I do not believe 9 round magazines are very popular at all. Right now it appears that your programmers cannot figure out the bullet-in-chamber accounting because it doesn't appear to work on any weapon. But the way it SHOULD be is from an empty reload, you should have 8 rounds. Reload before you're out, you should remain with one round in the chamber, and inserting a full 8 round magazine should not show you as having 9 rounds available. Fire off all of your rounds until you're empty, reload, and it should show only 8 rounds. Also, the in-game model appears to be using the standard 7-round magazines that are flush with the bottom of the weapon... {F20846}

Details

Legacy ID
2296579226
Severity
None
Resolution
Open
Reproducibility
Always
Category
Gameplay
Steps To Reproduce

Fire off all of your rounds until you're empty, and reload.

Additional Information

I don't understand how it is that a game priding itself on realism cannot get this one simple issue resolved. People have been reporting bullet-in-chamber accounting since the alpha. Unrealistic games like Call of Duty and Battlefield already have this aspect working correctly... It's sad when I can say Call of Duty has this aspect more accurate than the next ARMA game...

I really hope you guys get at least some of these things fixed before the game's release. The game's controls are so clunky, it appears a lot of functions are being crammed onto a keyboard for the sake of realism, but then simple mechanics like these are ignored...

Event Timeline

DemonMustang edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
DemonMustang set Category to Gameplay.
DemonMustang set Reproducibility to Always.
DemonMustang set Severity to None.
DemonMustang set Resolution to Open.
DemonMustang set Legacy ID to 2296579226.May 7 2016, 3:28 PM
Bohemia added a subscriber: AD2001.Jul 14 2013, 6:48 AM

For those of you voting this down, maybe you should add a note and share with us your great wisdom as to why the issue I'm raising is somehow incorrect. I'd very much like to hear some of these...

I will:

this is not an M1911, just like many things in this game, mostly placeholders, have changed stats in comparision to real life equipment, in this case, the M1911 in the game has 1 or 2 extra rounds in the magazine.

I guess in the near future they found a way to fit more .45 ACP in the same amount of space with magic science...

I'm sorry, but if I wanted to play a game with fuzzy logic full of "what if's" I would play a sci-fi shooter, not one that is supposed to take place in the real-world. Especially a game like this that prides itself in being true-to-life. New engineering considered, a .45 ACP round has certain dimensions. That weapon in the game, whether you want to call it a 1911 or a "ACP-C2" has certain dimensions. You do the math of one dimension divided by the other dimension, that would tell you how many rounds of .45 ACP would fit in this weapon, without looking at the stats of a 1911. Seeing as how the magazine lays flush with the bottom of the weapon, it'll already be a stretch to say you can fit 8 rounds in that magazine, much less 9...

Then play other games. I agree with Death. Its 2035. Just like MX is a fictional rifle. Does that bother you aswell?

Wow, lol. It's not the fact that they are fictional, it's the fact that they bend the laws of physics. Why not just say that this handgun holds 50 rounds? Hey, it's the future, why not? LMAO

True though, they should probably make an extended mag or something, i guess. SO its rather a visual issue, not gameplay.

Well, it is, kind of, but I also put into account the issue of the lack of bullet-in-chamber accounting which is completely a gameplay issue. If it was an extended 9-round magazine, then reloading the weapon while a round is still in the chamber, the count should then be 10 rounds available to fire.

Edit: I accidentally typed magazine instead of chamber...

but ArmA never could calculate the round in the chamber of any weapon, and Kardaslt, the MX its not a fictionalrifle, its a placeholder name, the actual rifle its the ACR

MX is fictional. BIS had one of the weapon companies design it for them from scratch. But it is inspired by real world counterparts ACR and XCR, yes. Also they really probably should finaly add bullet accounting.

MX name may be fictional, but its so alike an ACR that it may as well be called ACR A1, every gun its almost identical to the real life counter part anyway

Goose added a subscriber: Goose.May 7 2016, 3:28 PM
Goose added a comment.Jul 15 2013, 7:02 PM

Well, the gun is a single-stack 1911 design, and it is impossible to fit 9 .45-caliber rounds in a single-stack magazine that still fits flush with the bottom of the 1911's pistol grip.

As for fixing: why not? It's a simple matter of typing in "7" instead of "9".

Having 7 rounds in a 1911 never "negatively affected my gameplay" in ArmA 2, even though other sidearms had 15, 17, even 30 rounds. In ArmA 3, pistols appear to be much more powerful so there's even less reason to complain about "lack of ammunition". Simply make it a 7-round magazine. :)

you convinced me.

@Goose

I still think they should model the 8-round magazines that the majority of 1911 owners use. And make the bullet-in-chamber thing work and voila, have 9 rounds and be realistic at the same time...

its funny, but not really, most of the users has 7 bullets mags, i hate it when most of the games (far cry 2, heroes and generals, maybe far cry 3) uses the 8 rounds mags for every M1911, but it was originally designed for 7 rounds mags

Goose added a comment.Jul 15 2013, 9:24 PM

Could be either way, 7 or 8 in 2035. Perhaps 8 rounds are more common by then, or perhaps not. Some people may carefully inspect the 3D model and note it is a 7-round magazine though (haven't checked myself).

Personally I am not bothered by tiny modelling things as long as the overall effect is both logical and believable... 7, 8, wouldn't really mind either way since I am not taking screenshots or the gun and magnifying things, etc. 9 is one too much though (and the hammer should be cocked).

They all come with 7 round magazines, but literally everyone I know with a 1911 style handgun (or with multiple 1911 style handguns) have those stored at home and they only use 8-round magazines at the range and for conceal carry. I see a lot of Wilsons and Chip McCormick Power Mags (which I prefer for their metal followers rather than plastic followers). But I guess I must know a strange group of people. I wouldn't doubt it, lol.

Uh, sorry, "balancing" is the crap that games like COD does. This is supposed to represent the real world and in the real world there are real world differences between one weapon and another...

Honestly, I care about 0% how many "kills per magazine" (I thought it depends on shot placement) you get out of what. The ONLY thing I consider is how many rounds the real deal has. Balancing is the thing that has been killing every first-person shooter on the market for me. Picking your weapon is just based on how "cool" they look to you...

StJimmy added a subscriber: StJimmy.May 7 2016, 3:28 PM

Voted for the 9->7 change because that's the real deal. Bohemia should give those pistols more damage rather than more ammo if that's the reason why these have too much ammo.
Like Dr Death said: "ArmA never could calculate the round in the chamber of any weapon" so I don't expect that to change.

Not expecting it to change and not doing our job as testers to report things as we find it are two different things in my opinion. I find the not accounting for the round inside the chamber to be a mistake and will continue to report it and vote up people who report it. Because that's what I am supposed to do as a beta tester. If BIS decides to be lazy and not implement something that every other game does, at least I know I did my part and that mistake is on them.

WolveNZ added a subscriber: WolveNZ.May 7 2016, 3:28 PM

Couldnt it just be that the Rounds are slightly stacked? New, Modern Materials allow the Mag walls to be thinner and the Frame to also be thinner, allowing for the rounds to be on a slight offset, allowing the extra two rounds (Over the 7)....

I do think that if possible, their should be the bullet in chamber accounted for... But im not sure of the Feasibility as the Engine was never developed to tend for such..

Except you can clearly see it's a single stack magazine if you look at the model while it's on the ground. (sorry, the pic I uploaded isn't at a good angle to see it) and you can also see that it's a single stack when the character is reloading...

@DemonMustang: Why are people voting you down? It's your tone. Your report sounds like an angry, entitled soccer mom yelling at a 16 year old sales clerk for telling her that her coupon expired a week ago.

St. Jimmy i NEVER said ArmA wouldn't. i said ArmA never did it, but everyone wants to, i doubt if the engine allow it, because not even VBS can do it

@MadocComadrin

Alrighty then. I'll stop telling it like it is so I won't hurt anyone's feelings. Thanks for the tip... If you're going to vote a legitimate issue down because you have sand where the sun don't shine, and for that reason you're willing to play a game that advertises realism yet delivers something short of it, then hey, not my problem. Like I've said, I'm merely reporting a problem because that's our job as beta testers. We are not here to form a happy community to sing songs together (trust me, there's a reason I only sing when I'm absolutely alone, that's the merciful side of me...). If you raise an issue that I feel needs to be addressed for the sake of making the game better, I am not going to vote it down because the reporter said something that is factual without saying pretty please at the end... If you guys want to do that. Go ahead, it's a free... erm, world? Lol

And I don't know what an "entitled soccer mom" even is... A soccer mom is a person who is raising children... Meaning she has to do work... I think you're mixing entitled teenager, and... um, a soccer mom, lol (sorry, can't think of anything else). And I have no clue how anything is like yelling at a store clerk for an expired coupon? Which would imply the issue I'm bringing up is wrong? Because if your coupon is expired, it's your fault you waited so long, dammit... lol :-D

But hey, I'm sure it sounded really clever in your mind, I've done that too before, we all have, no worries. ANYWAY, anything useful to add to the topic of no bullet-in-chamber accounting or single stack magazines holding more ammo than they can physically hold? Such as the idea WolveNZ brought up? They actually do make double stack 1911-style handguns. Although personally I don't like them. I like the 1911 design because of how thin it is, so the double stack version kind of defeats the purpose in my opinion...

@Dr. Death

I see a lot of people mentioning the engine, does that really have anything to do with it? I'm no coder, but I thought things like ammo count was just lines of game logic or behavior? It doesn't really need to apply any actual physics calculations or anything like that... I'm literally just talking out of my rear-end now though because I have no clue how that works, but I just had a different idea in my head of what depends on the game's engine and what didn't...

@DemonMustang

The reason why the engine is of discussion is with the calculations required for the chambered round. The only way to do this without a modification to the engine would be to have a script, that at the end of the day would have to present a magazine with a extra round inside of it, and take into account if the magazine that is being loaded is at full capacity or not that would end up being a bloated, slow and of course buggy if not implemented at a deeper level.

It's just that there are so many older games that have this that don't even pretend to advertise themselves as realistic games, I find it hard to believe that it's such a difficult thing to achieve...

It shouldn't be overly difficult for the Dev's, but I think that it would take a considerable ammount of man hours to rectify bugs brought up by such, it could end up breaking allot of the cofig work that has been the base of the ArmA Series...

But, that is only why I think it hasnt been done, not that its a game breaking problem that ruins the game or a aspect of it.

:'(

I'm really accustomed to the 1911 style handgun. So used to 4 sets of doubles and then reload... And the whole hammer being forward thing distracts me, because in the back of my mind I know this weapon has a single-action trigger, so seeing the hammer forward I automatically think I need to clear a malfunction... So many things are not right with one weapon, and it happens to be my favorite type of handgun. So annoying... lol

Just to point something out, there are weapons like the H&K USP .45 that holds 10 rounds, the FN FNX .45 which holds 15 rounds and so on so having 9 rounds is not a problem in my eyes. I wish they would use the FN FNX as a model instead.

the problem is that this is a m1911

Goose added a comment.Nov 9 2013, 11:48 PM

This bug still exists, the magazine is still flush and should have 7 rounds.

You can see quite clearly in this picture, 9 rounds will never fit in a flush magazine!

http://i.imgur.com/QOagb8S.png

The magazine would have to stick out quite a bit, like so: http://i.imgur.com/o2xtFfH.png

This needs to be fixed - it's not hard to type in the number "7".

Goose added a comment.Dec 6 2013, 11:04 PM

Still present as of today, dev version.

Honestly, I've given up. I've done my part in trying to help the developers make this game as realistic as possible, but apparently they still want to make weapons lose muzzle velocity when you add a sound suppressor (silencer), they still won't do the bullet in chamber accounting, and they won't even put accurate ammo capacities in their weapons apparently. I think they are definitely favoring "balancing" over realism in this one. Which is unfortunate. People are voting this down anyway, I guess the consumers favor balancing over realism as well. So what can you do? I've done my part. I feel like I'm wasting my time trying to report things that I find...

you would be impressed at the amount of people that agrees with you, mustang.

i think this is because ArmA 3 is set in the future, if they were to use it on a modern or past time they would be forced to use realism and people would be happier.

@Dr Death

Say what you will about the game being set in the future, if you look at the 3d model of the weapon, you'll see that it clearly cannot hold that many rounds in the magazine, unless the near future invents some kind of sub-space storage system where rounds shrink in size while in the magazine until it's fired or something...

Remove the bullet in the chamber accounting as that already has a ticket.

Demon, i think you should re-read my comment....

@ProGamer

Oh, is that why neither issue has been looked at or resolved?

@Dr_Death

I read your comment just fine the first time, thanks. You are misunderstanding what I'm saying. I'm not saying that you agree with it, I'm saying that even if they use that excuse for it being set in the future it still doesn't explain anything. They should be "forced" to use realism even if it's set in the future.

blame BIS, they call on lack of resources after making 4 games at the same time being just an indie dev with barely 100 people, what do they do now? they make a contest with over 200 000€ as a prize.

TRULY A SMART MOVE.

Goose added a comment.Dec 9 2013, 7:20 AM

Uh, okay...

Now can we all agree it's not reasonable to stuff 9 rounds into a magazine well that can physically only hold 7, maximum 8 rounds with a space-saving spring design?

Someone just needs to change the number of rounds to 7, or 8. It will make the realism people happy and will barely affect the casual people's gameplay.

@Goose

Just how many casual first-person shooter gamers do you see playing games like ARMA? I think they are playing Call of Duty or Battlefield.

But sadly, when it comes to the weapons and animations, I'm actually more impressed with Battlefield 4 than ARMA III right now. The 1911 in Battlefield 4 is modeled perfectly and holds the right amount of rounds, even counts bullet-in-chamber...

Not to mention, BF4 correctly have it with the hammer back instead of forward like in this game. When dropped on the ground, it has the hammer back like it should be, but in 1st person view, the hammer is forward...

you know its sad when even a battlefield worse than BF3 is more realistic than ArmA 3........

i was right, BIS IS getting lazy.

This is a game, I don't care about "ultra-realism". As long as the game itself is balanced in a way that makes it fun to play. And setting the game it in the future really lends itself to that end.

Also to any buttclenching going on after reading that. Yes, arma is a game. It's not a simulator. It simulates certain aspects "in a way", such as ballistics, but it is not an actual simulator. For a simulator only experience have a look at VBS. Simulators are made to simulate things accurately, arma has never strived for that, it has always been pseudo-realism(wich is not to say that it is not advanced). And thank goodness for that.

If you obsess over realism you're missing out.
Enjoy your 9-round pistol.

i would buy VBS but i am not rich.

ArmA hasn't been THAT balanced, actually, ArmA 2 had a little bit more OP russian forces, and in OA the insurgents would be useless.

ArmA 3 is far more mainstream with the MMS genre and i dislike that.

Good for you if you are fine with arma being more of a game, but i want a simulator, and some mods can make arma exactly that. A simulator.

Goose added a comment.Dec 10 2013, 4:29 AM

@Goblinbutt:

Pleeeease (rolls eyes). Almost every game which has a 1911 gives it seven or eight rounds. Was it a problem in ArmA 2? It had 7 rounds there. How about Call of Duty: Black Ops 2? Only 7 rounds! Battlefield 4? Again, 7 rounds!

What about the Zubr .45? It only has SIX rounds, so how is this even a "balancing" issue?

There is no reason for it to have 9 rounds. There are many good reasons to give it 7 or 8.

If you don't care about authentic portrayal or conforming to the rules of the known universe, you're missing out.

still, since when an extra pistol round is so important? granted, just like in real life it can mean life or death, but there is not much difference for just 1 extra bullet, i dont think this is a balancing issue, just a realism issue.

dont think this is a balancing issue, just a realism issue.

Isn't that enough reason to fix it? IMO it is

Oh and you wrote earlier:

the MX its not a fictionalrifle, its a placeholder name, the actual rifle
its the ACR

It's not an ACR, and it doesn't look like an ACR any more like a CZ805 looks like an ACR.

Helari added a subscriber: Helari.May 7 2016, 3:28 PM

Someone from BIS has stated that the gear uses fictional names because they want to stray from some real life details and dont want to have to listen to pedantists.

No, the reason for the change of names is for licence money. Alwarren: Yes, it WOULD be enough reason to fix it but BIS thinks just because this is futuristic they can do whateverthey want.

And check again the ACR. it may have a different foregrip but its almost the same weapon.

Yes, it WOULD be enough reason to fix it but BIS thinks just because this is
futuristic they can do whateverthey want.

Still don'T get why people downvote it.

And check again the ACR. it may have a different foregrip but its almost
the same weapon.

I modelled the ACR, it's an entirely different weapon. The MX looks much more like the XCR than anything else.

Completely different stock
Sides of the MX are almost right angles, ACR are 45 degrees
Charging lever is completely different (ACR is non-reciprocating too)
ACR has exposed gas blcok
Don't look at the side view only

i still think they based the MX in the ACR, even with those changes.

Goblinbutt: I forgot to tell you, yes, i TRIED VBS, and trust me, its almost the same gameplay as ArmA 1 but with those small details that people want to have in arma.

Balancing is a dirty word in my book. If all weapons are "balanced" there's no reason to have more than one of each type of weapon... You think people prefer different weapons for their looks? No, it's for differences in performances and what suits that particular person best and his style of shooting. You care about "balancing" you might as well just make every weapon exactly the same and you end up changing weapons just for looks like a girl changes shoes or clothes. Have fun with your virtual modeling game...

you mean me?

Dang it Dr Death, why do you always assume everyone is out to get you? LOL. I'm referring to goblinbutt's comment and anyone else who wants to argue that it's good for "balancing."

@DemonMustang: I don't think it means what you think it means.
Balancing does not mean that you homogenize things, it simply means that in the big picture you make sure one faction for example does not have an unfair advantage over the other in the bigger picture. This means changing things on a smaller scale with individual guns in this case. Balancing is not about small scale equilibrium although that's where the changes are made.

@Goblinbutt

And exactly how does giving a weapon an accurate ammo capacity giving anyone an "unfair advantage"? Just out of curiosity.

@DemonMustang
Many small creeks make a big river.
And it already has accurate ammo capacity because it's not a real gun no matter how much it may look like one or coincidentally have the same name as one.

The ghosthawk is not a real chopper either, lets add FLIR and FFAR to it!

I don't think the number of bullets in mag should be changed, but adding bullet in chamber accounting would be quite nice. I'll live, though.

StJimmy removed a subscriber: StJimmy.Apr 3 2017, 3:20 PM