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Chopper physics
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Description

Just wanted to say that choppers feel great now, amazing job guys!!!

Editing to reflect my feedback on the current build.

PLEASDE NOTE THIS IS MY OPINION. YOU MAY HAVE A DIFFERENT ONE.

Few notes.

  1. XH-9 family are great. Perfect as far as handling goes.
  1. Mi-48. Perfect handling and physics. Needs a FLIR screen to better communicate with gunner.
  1. CH-49 has perfect physics, PLEASE DONT CHANGE A THING. except for landing without gear. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW4bbXh6vIs (Skip to 26 seconds to see from outside view) If however you have the gear out, the heli explodes. I can make another video to show that. There is a way to keep the gear down at high speed.
  1. AH-99 Looses all of the lift at banking. Here is the ticket No: 0012461 and video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHpzcEdTFZA. Here is another video showing Other choppers banking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OmSbplrNUY

Also, the pitch monitor is inverted. Other than that it is perfect.

  1. Orca is good as is. Maybe slightly too agile.
  1. Need to add an option to deploy gears manually.
  1. As stated by the manager, wind is not going to affect Choppers, other than speed ie. increased/decreased friction. Reasonable reasons and I feel fine with that.
  1. Speed seems great on all of the choppers.
  1. Still need the option to map action menu options.
  1. 100% need to have rolling wheels. Not just to taxi, but to be able to land at some speed and roll. Damage is sometimes caused because the wheels stick into the ground.
  1. Brakes for wheels. When landing on a slope, I should be able to stop. I cant tell you how many times, after a successful landing, I rolled into the ocean, off a cliff, into a tree and so on.

These are my 2 cents.

The halved roll input has been fixed making flight AMAZING!

PERFECT CHOPPER FLIGHT MODEL IMO! LOVE IT. ON TO THE AIRPLANES ;)

Details

Legacy ID
3981290409
Severity
None
Resolution
Fixed
Reproducibility
N/A
Category
Game Physics

Event Timeline

exxDUDExx edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
exxDUDExx set Category to Game Physics.
exxDUDExx set Reproducibility to N/A.
exxDUDExx set Severity to None.
exxDUDExx set Resolution to Fixed.
exxDUDExx set Legacy ID to 3981290409.May 7 2016, 3:27 PM
AD2001 added a subscriber: AD2001.May 7 2016, 3:27 PM

4 is already requested. 1, 2 and 3 are covered by 0009786.

Also, check out my ticket for water interaction with helicopters as it is the 5th thing you forgot! :)

Better Water Interaction for Helicopters!
http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=8468

and (6) fast roping and (7) air lifts

all of which already have a ticket

Aren't airlifts in? You mean for vehicle right?

Yes for vehicles and cargo.

i think we should use the TOH physics

In my opinion the game would not be fun

isn't the aim of the game making it realistic?

The aim is actually a balance of realism and fun.

then add the TOH controls as an module and done.

Now that...that is a great idea.

i know, people like DDG suggested the TOH controls for making it more realistic because the idea is making helicopter flying challenging, not easy, Dsly and some others think that it would make the flight controls way too hard, so i came up with that, add it as a module and done, even if that means making 2 chopper config files, one for common flight controls, the other for TOH flight

But, wouldn't it cost time the devs don't have?

not THAT much, it would just port the TOH flightmodel to A3 aircrafts, mostly code, it would take around 1 week if just 1 developer work on it

But guys, flight doesn't have to be hard. It's not that hard in real life.
Also, this is a game, and some things are supposed to be just fun and should work within the game.

TOH Physics aren't fun or very interesting IMO. I don't see how it would work.

Bohemia added a subscriber: Bohemia.May 7 2016, 3:27 PM

Difficulty settings. TKOH's flight model was customizable based on what difficulty level you chose and or how you customized the difficulties. so you could have auto trim but still be effected by wind for example.

The wind effect is something that I would love to see in Arma 3. Currently I don't see any effects on choppers at all.

exxDUDExx, TOH flightmodel is slightly easier than in real life, if flying in real life its "not that hard" then TOH should be more than welcome, if you want an easier flightmodel than in real life, fine, but i think those who get in the chopper seat SHOULD know how to fly, i want flying choppers to be hard, so in clans you cant just pick up someone to press collective up and then fly, i want people to actually train to use choppers

But that would be unrealistic. It's the same thing that I hear on Driving Sim games forums. (This is too easy and thus unrealistic)

Driving is easy, Drifting is EASY in real life. If it's easy it doesn't mean it's unrealistic.

Now, if you want it to be hard so that people don't fly, that's a different story, but that would mean making unrealistic flight model.

Flying choppers is not hard, and the only thing that can add to difficulty is turbulence, wind, and other things, but the way choppers handle (most of them) seems pretty realistic. The only thing TOH had going for it was the shaking of the chopper, but that would just get annoying in ARMA 3

drifting easy? at first i though that just saying that flying a chopper was easy in real life is stupid, but as a driving and car fan as i am, hearing such a thing is just stupid, do you think drifting is just using the handbrake?, ill tell you what:

1- drifting NEEDS: an RF car with MANUAL transmission, won't work with semi auto or auto.

2- you need to have slick tires or something alike

3- you need to have a powerful car

4- you need to know how to press your engine without breaking the car.

I never said i want it to be hard so people dont fly, i dont want it to be like in BFBC2, i said i wanted it to be realistic, in real life there is a reason why an infantry soldier just doesn't replace a pilot when flying a helicopter, and no, the way the choppers handle is NOT realistic, and i see you barely played TOH, because the way the collective and the landing gear and damage were simulated in TOH was almost perfect.

its like if you were now to tell me that flying a plane its not hard

About drifting:

I actually drift, so I am not just saying. Drifting is about balancing throttle and steering (plus other stuff but that's the main point)

  1. Correct
  2. WRONG. Formula D does not allow slics, only street tires. Slicks would be good for grip but are not allowed.
  3. WRONG. Any rear wheel car can be drifted. Japanese drift with 180hp. Many US enthusiast, drift stock Silvias, corollas and other cheap cars. Welded diff and that's it.
  4. WRONG. Engines break often without even pushing them hard. It's not drag racing with NOS.

Back to the topic.
TOH was fine, but that model would just not work with ARMA 3.

Flying a plane is easy (depending on the plane) Using and understanding all the electronics, regulations, wind and everything else is hard. But flying about is easy. I did it. (not taking off and landing but just general flying about in a Cessna).

drifting:
2- thanks for pointing it out, but i meant its easier using the slick ones, and if you manage to lose a bit of grip on a slick, the whole tire loses grip
3- what i meant is mostly the relation torque-weight, you can drift with a 100 HP engine if the car is light, etc.
4- AFAIK to drift you need to have enough RPM so that the tire lose grip with the ground, correct? that means the RPM for the engine are gonna increase faster, wich means the drifting can be risky to the engines.

and Yes, i think the TOH model or even slightly updated would work perfectly with arma 3, in ArmA 2 i had to keep up the UH-60 or the UH-1 at almost a 45º angle just to reach 200 km/h, in TOH with the realistic flight dinamics i didn't really had to, because a chopper doesn't need to be in that angle.

and lets not mention how you can do things in the ArmA flightmodel that you cant do in RL or TOH.

Yes... flying with a cessna or maybe a WWI or a training WWII plane can be easy, but i do mean modern planes, either for cargo or fighters

oukej added a comment.Jul 22 2013, 3:18 PM

Thank you for your feedback, xH-9 family has seen some improvements. Please, take a look in the current dev build.

The manual gear - http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=10006
Mi-48 - http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=11613

Aircraft are not affected by the wind. That should be added into the ticket as well. I think it fits the title.

oukej added a comment.Jul 24 2013, 9:19 AM

@DennisModem
It's implemented in a very simplified way

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=9477

(wind is decreasing friction, when it has the same direction as helicopter)

@oukej I left a note on that ticket. What I'm talking about is different. If you max out the wind slider on the editor and hold a stable hover, lets say at 3m, the aircraft should drift in the direction that the wind is blowing. You should have to have cyclic input into the direction of the wind to hold that hover without any drift. This should be most noticeable when you are presenting a larger cross section of the helicopter to the wind (from the 3 or 9 o'clock in relation to the nose of the helicopter). Currently the aircraft experience no effects from the wind while holding a hover.

I agree. It could actually be a very interesting game changer. Currently landing on a hill slope between trees is not that challenging. However if wind would affect the chopper like in TOH, it would change a lot of things.

Strategic approach to attacks, landings, maneuvers. People would be forced to land in the open. Also, mastering flight would actually mean something.

EDIT: it says in issue history that Ii changed stat from feedback to assigned.
I have no idea how I did that and I don't thing I pushed a single button. Please change back to feedback.

Why don't you want it to be assigned?

oukej added a comment.Jul 25 2013, 1:51 PM

It is assigned anyway ;)

@ exxDUDExx Those are considerations to selecting a landing zone. Per the CH-46 NATOPS there are six major concerns when selecting a landing zone:

  1. height of obstacles that determine the approach angle
  2. size and topography of the landing zone
  3. WIND DIRECTION AND VELOCITY
  4. possible loss of WIND EFFECT
  5. power available
  6. departure route
Byku added a subscriber: Byku.May 7 2016, 3:27 PM
Byku added a comment.Jul 25 2013, 5:34 PM
  1. Ah/Mh 9 family, needs faster rotation. It seems to rotate very slowly ---- fine as it is now i suppose, there is a problem with controllers now, one of the axis is halfed
  2. Mi-48 Needs faster rotation.(ALSO, it feels very heavy, it just keeps loosing altitude and when you think you should make it, you usually crash into ground. Not enough lift is a good way to explain it. Should be a little more agile ---- i like how the mi-48 has a certain weight to it, when you overdo stuff you hit the ground.
  3. CH-49 has perfect physics, except for landing without gear ---- fine as it is
  4. Need to add an option to deploy gears manually ---- not important to me much
  5. Choppers need to be affected by wind ---- YES! Not only max speed, but also when for example hovering!

@ Byku Can you be a little more specific with # 1 & # 2? What do you mean rotation? Roll or Yaw? In the latest Dev build the roll issue was fixed and I confirmed it last night.

Byku added a comment.Jul 25 2013, 5:35 PM

It was a quote ;) from the main post :P and my opinions after the "-" ;) (i've edited it to make it a bit more clear)

Now I feel like both Mi-48 and AH-99 are lacking lift. Mi-48 just falls like a rock and AH-99 feels less maneuverable than Orca or CH-49.

OOOOHHHH MYYYY GOOOD. Why does it keep changing from Feedback to Assign. All I am doing is adding a note.

MAKE HELICOPTERS TAXI!!!

@exxDUDExx
Why the frock don't you want it to be assigned to someone?

@AD. Cause this is feedback based on changes that they made. There are tickets already with all of the problems.

Today increased speed of the helicopters should appear on the Dev. build.
Please, take a look. You should be able to reach speeds similar to what you'd expect from real-life counterparts or aircrafts similar to the assets we use in the game.

Yaw speed was tweaked as well.

Sadly no Blackfoot turning and flying sideways in high speeds, no Mi-48 with Ka-52 capabilities ;) Probably never, that would require way too much love dedicated to just one asset.

Wind affecting the aircrafts even more would also require AI to cope with that even more, otherwise a huge pile of reports about AI crashing into everything, not keeping altitude, not firing on target, etc..., would fall on our heads ;)

Byku added a comment.Jul 29 2013, 1:40 PM

Was able to reach 310 im Mi-48 nice, Comanche - 250/260 with level flight(could be just a bit faster). Anyway, thanks :). Pity with the sideways flight :(

oukej added a comment.Jul 29 2013, 2:08 PM

Yup, the Blackfoot still may need a little bit of boost.
Flying sideways... http://youtu.be/krFTGNAra1w
(Lacks only the fancy turn-in-speed maneuver ;)

I take it exceptions cannot be made for AI? Similar to TKOH where the player used rotorlib and other dynamic effects such as wind, whereas the AI used a more Arma 2 style FM.

It may be a bit "unfair" that the AI wouldn't have to suffer through wind effects and other things, but the AI pilots aren't going to behave the same as human pilots either.

@oukej: What do you mean by "no Mi-48 with Ka-52 capabilities"
Also. I didn't get it. I thought you said the Blackfoot will not be able to fly sideways. Or did you mean it will not be able to turn in at high speed?

Byku added a comment.Jul 29 2013, 11:28 PM

Ka-52 thanks to coaxial rotors is able to turn sideways at high speeds, so unfortunately MI-48 won't be like Ka-52. And Blackfoot is not able to turn sideways at high speed. That's what he meant.

oooohhh I see. Thanks for clarification.

What do you guys thing about CH-49 being able to float. Added a youtube link with real footage of a chopper that looks like the CH-49 landing and taking off from water.

Look in my main description for the link.

Dude, you got the CH-49 thing 100% WRONG, the chopper landing in water its a Sea Knight, y' know, the big USMC transport chopper besides the CH-53 family, not a Merlin

The helicopter demonstrating water taxi in the video is not a CH-46 (Sea Knight). That is the aircraft that I fly on. That is a Royal Air Force logo on the side of the plane.

then please be kind enough like to tell me wich helicopter that is

The floating is part of my ticket here: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=8468
My ticket is water interaction portion of chopper physics.

@exxDUDExx please leave the water interaction portions to my ticket, that's why I made it! :)
Not sure why the tickets aren't linked with a relationship yet?

You know, the the ch-49 would more suit the ability of similar aircraft were they keep the engines on but hover into the water for swimmers and boats to enter and leave the vehicle. My ticket covers this correctly. Water enters the back of the aircraft and if you were sitting in the back your pants and feet get wet.

http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=8468

I would prefer and many others would if all the helicopters remained as close to the speed of there real life equivalents.

@ProGamer: Sure I will delete the comment about Ch-49 water landing.

Linked up the tickets, kinda making this a meta-ticket.

If you got more tickets to add, let me know by comment.

Wow it seems the chopper physics have improved by a huge amount! At least in the DEV branch!

Wow they feel really really good now!

I am no pro heli pilot but flew a lot in games. In the past weeks the deacceleration of the chopper allways was a big concern for me. It felt like the chopper didnt want to decent at all.

Now it feels a lot more realistic and controllable!

At least it feels realistic and fun to me now;)

Greetz!

Flight dynamics are much more realistic now in the latest dev build. Running landings were tested at 100 kph and work just fine. The brakes are applied automatically so don't attempt touch and gos. Speeds above 100 kph will cause damage. So far I have tested the AH-99, Mi-48, AH9 and MH9.

The physics and feel of choppers is amazing. I tested all of them and can say that for me at least they choppers have reached perfection, (as much as they can for ARMA 3) No need to change a thing.

One thing though, which is still off. Doing hard banking in AH-99 results in loss of all the lift. Will post a video and make a new ticket for it.

Other than that, EVERYTHING IS AMAZING!!! LOVE IT!

Cheers, please post the ticket # here so I can relate it.

Here is the ticket No: 0012461

Byku added a comment.Aug 7 2013, 2:05 AM

@exxDUDExx - i would leave it as it is, it might "simulate" vortex ring state maybe :P, anyway, it shouldn't be too easy ;)

@exxDUDExx - the loss of airspeed while banking hard left or right is realistic as you are changing the pitch attitude of the aircraft to change heading thus the loss of airspeed.

@ Byku. True, but others handle just fine. Not a big problem for me. The only real problem I get as it's some what random. Sometimes I can do it fine but most of the time it drops like a rock. Hate it when I am low to the ground and all of a sudden I am flying down the slope with no idea what happened.

@ DennisModem. Loss of speed is not what I am talking about. This maneuver is done specifically to change direction quickly or slow down to a stop. What happens is the heli just drops as if all the lift is gone. If you look at the second video that does not happen with other helis. It's actually quite strange.

Also. I have looked at videos online and choppers don't have a problem with loss of altitude when doing such maneuver. Most behave like those in the second video. So something seems off about AH-99

Fri13 added a subscriber: Fri13.May 7 2016, 3:27 PM
Fri13 added a comment.Sep 12 2013, 6:10 PM

Even this is resolved, flying with helicopters in game is way too easy. Flying a fixed wing planes are far more easier than flying helicopters, and flying fixed wings isn't so easy as many could believe (those who want to compare driving a car etc).

Helicopters can not be flied without continually controlling disk and keeping it in controls. You can keep hand off from controls for about 3-4 seconds until helicopter starts losing its balance and you crash.

Take on Helicopters game isn't even good simulation, it doesn't include even half of the physics what helicopters does have and yet some people say it is hard.

I do agree with "Dr Death" that flying helicopter in ARMA 3 should be difficult to learn and challenging to master so player should really learn to fly them and even when flying in combat conditions they would have hard time to do complex things.

It doesn't mean ARMA 3 needs to come a simulator but it would raise the gaming challenge and enjoyment rate when you can success in difficult task easier.

Currently example Mi-48 is so bad that it makes almost cry.

It's been discussed to death in forums, where these kind of text belongs. Closing.