Page MenuHomeFeedback Tracker

3D scope reticules are "painted on", which makes them misalign
New, WishlistPublic

Description

Because there is a minute amount of movement in the idle animations, the "painted on" reticules misalign with the gun's barrel. Because of this, your gun won't quite shoot where you point it.

Suggestion:

The misalignment could be an interesting feature if these two things would be added:
A: The alignment would need to be controllable, for example by holding your breath.
B: You would need a clear indicator to tell if your scope is aligned or not. Scope shadows would be a good method. (separate ticket at: http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=10085 ) {F20077} {F20078}

Details

Legacy ID
1801473469
Severity
None
Resolution
Open
Reproducibility
Always
Category
Visual-Weapons
Steps To Reproduce

Look through scope, shoot at far away dudes, watch as you hit to their sides.
Another way to reproduce: Set to night time, look through the scope with NV goggles and IR laser on. You'll see the laser beam and the reticule misalign.

Event Timeline

RasdenFasden edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
RasdenFasden set Category to Visual-Weapons.
RasdenFasden set Reproducibility to Always.
RasdenFasden set Severity to None.
RasdenFasden set Resolution to Open.
RasdenFasden set Legacy ID to 1801473469.May 7 2016, 2:45 PM

This is a fairly severe issue, hopefully it'll be fixed really soon.

Uploaded an image that demonstrates the misalignment. The screenshots were taken while I was completely idle.

Working as intended if you ask me. This is how the real life non-collimating scopes work.

Take a look at this video from 2:19 to see the same effect http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERVjdWurpiU

Ok, I did some testing.

The weapon sway itself doesn't cause this, it indeed seems to be some kind of a camera misalignment due to head moving in some idle animation.

First is the fact that this happens with real weapons, the scope at 400 meters will not always, with undeniable certainty point at the exact point the bullet will hit if your eye isn't aligned properly with the scope.

Then there's the dispersion factor added to the weapons which gives bullets some leeway on where they actually hit.

Testing at 400 meters which the scope is zeroed at the laser did exhibit minor misalignment as in your pictures. But it affected my shot in no way.

First shot the reticule was dead center of the target, the laser went to the right edge of the target and the bullet hit very slightly to the left
Second shot the reticule was dead center of the target, the laser went to the right edge of the target and the bullet hit very slightly to the right and down
Third shot the reticule was offset to the left quarter of the way, the laser was aimed dead center, I hit the target slightly below the reticule
Fourth shot the reticule was offset to the left quarter of the way, the laser was aimed dead center I missed the target

I aimed with the collimator on top of the HAMR and some dispersion happened there as well.

Another issue with this is that the sights can appear misaligned if the laser doesn't end in the same distance as the sight. Demonstration in the pictures below.

http://i.imgur.com/0RVWyWt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0pyYCX7.jpg

My conclusion is the following. Laser vs reticule is not a proper way to conclude that the reticule is wrong, the proposal to fix this by making the reticule collimating would be the wrong way to solve this and would be even worse for gameplay due to the ability to use zoomed non-collimating scopes as collimators. The misalignment is a real life property as well. This also happens with the collimators but due to their lack of zoom is less apparent. Additionally since this happens with non collimating sights in real life, I find this beneficial to the gameplay. The reticule was accurate enough at the advertised zeroing range shooting at a man sized target.

Take a look at this video from 2:19 to see the same effect http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERVjdWurpiU [^]

That video does nothing but demonstrate my point. You can clearly see a MASSIVE scope shadow, indicating that the sight clearly isn't properly aligned with the camera.
You can't say it's realistic misalignment without the realistic indicators that show you whether or not your sight is misaligned.
You'd also perhaps know that at such extremely close distances, even very high quality collimator optics will get some parallax.

The weapon sway itself doesn't cause this, it indeed seems to be some kind of a camera misalignment due to head moving in some idle animation.

And this is why it's a bug and not a feature. Because it's not tied to actual weapon sway you don't have any of the control over sight alignment you'd have in real life. As previously mentioned you also don't have the real life indicators.

Another issue with this is that the sights can appear misaligned if the laser doesn't end in the same distance as the sight. Demonstration in the pictures below.

But that's because you're at far too close range for the laser to function properly. In my screenshots it's clearly visible that the laser is not aligned with the reticule for a very different reason.
Hell, at the distance in your screenshot anything but the lowest mounted ironsights won't be zeroed correctly anyway.

Then there's the dispersion factor added to the weapons which gives bullets some leeway on where they actually hit.

Weapon dispersion with anything but carbines doesn't really seem to be much of a factor to me.
When in doubt, use marksman and sniper rifles to test. Even with a bog standard MX I get a clear loss of accuracy due to the scope and not the rifle itself.

The reticule was accurate enough at the advertised zeroing range shooting at a man sized target.

That's just a matter of luck. If you happen to be caught in the wrong part of the idle animation you will NOT hit your target even at just 200m.
By the way, ironically the more stable stances like prone seem to have more problematic idle animations than standing.

(why did the ticket suddenly change to "assigned"?)

Either way, we can agree that the solution to that bug is not to make those optics collimating. The video shows that the optic is not collimated, your point that the sight gets misaligned is valid, but the solution isn't.

I agree that it's a bug, but it's because of the idle animation. The inherent weapon sway is not that idle animation (to clear it up for everyone else). It's mostly observed in prone and any slight mouse movement will correct it. We had similar with the crouched animation and ironsights in Arma 2.

That animation itself is what should be fixed.

In case of gameplay features, I do agree that scope shadow would be interesting. Right now we have the sway which doesn't misalign the optics and the way to control it with hold breath. I'd love to see those two interacting in some way. But that's a feature request for a different ticket.

The only reason I like that this happens (but still agree that it's a bug) is because it gives out some randomness and slightly misaligns the sights for scopes that are used for medium range enough that it prolongs firefights.

When in doubt, use marksman and sniper rifles to test.

I did, used the BLUFOR Marksman which is armed with MXM, HAMR and the IR laser by default. Observed the same with the EBR. I fired at the moment the maximum misalignment happened. Firing while they are aligned wouldn't exactly be testing the issue. :) Even with the SOS which is still 2D as the old scopes at 400 meters some random dispersion happens which is relevant as it contributes to the feel of the misalignment if you expect every round to hit at the same place.

Can we agree to alter the ticket to reflect that the problem is the idle animation in prone and crouched (I can't observe this while standing) in this case and not the scope itself and that the solution would be to correct the idle animation?

As for the assigned, apparently "Feedback" status assigns it to whoever set it to that when the author of the ticket replies.

Either way, we can agree that the solution to that bug is not to make those optics collimating. The video shows that the optic is not collimated, your point that the sight gets misaligned is valid, but the solution isn't.

Yeah, you changed my mind. I removed the first suggestion from the OP.

I agree that it's a bug, but it's because of the idle animation. The inherent weapon sway is not that idle animation (to clear it up for everyone else). It's mostly observed in prone and any slight mouse movement will correct it. We had similar with the crouched animation and ironsights in Arma 2.

Haha, I remember that in early Arma 2, the problem was far more pronounced there, especially with collimators. It was kinda funny, standing up for better accuracy.
Also, the misalignment also happens in some adjusted stances.

In case of gameplay features, I do agree that scope shadow would be interesting. Right now we have the sway which doesn't misalign the optics and the way to control it with hold breath. I'd love to see those two interacting in some way. But that's a feature request for a different ticket.

Yeah.
I can think of two ways:

  1. Completely static idle animations with misalignment built into the swaying
  2. The current idle motions stay, but when you hold your breath it subtly switches to a static version of the animation where the sights are properly aligned.
arziben added a subscriber: arziben.May 7 2016, 2:45 PM

added a picture to show it with the zafir ironsights

FrankHH added a subscriber: FrankHH.May 7 2016, 2:45 PM

This needs fixing ASAP - it's a very important issue. The scope should sway with the camera since the weapon is stuck to your shoulder.

My suggestion would be to make the scope align (stop idle animation and reset it) when holding your breath. That way people have control over the optics aligning, but the animation doesn't need to be removed (which I`d hate)