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Engine and physical objects
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The engine should take into account the fact that it is physically impossible to hold the rifle in firing position "by the hip" or "sights up" when standing/crouching/proning very close to an object.

What the engine does, right now, is allow you to actually put the rifle through an object, even though you can't shoot through it.

So you carefully adjust behind an object and you see the sight clear on the target behind that object but when you shoot you hit the object.

There goes your surprise element...

It happens, basically when you lean behind a wall/rock but it also happens when you lie down on a ridge to shoot below. The sight is clear but the tip of the rifle goes through the scenery. You shoot but you hit the ground...

... the AI below shoots you back and kills you.

Maybe an indicator would do but maybe a more realistic solution would be to push back the soldier when he pulls up the rifle.

Remember: it can't physically enter a wall or a rock or a ridge so the sight CANT move where the tip of the rifle can't go. We need a "physical" solution to this very important issue (AI at elite level is very skilled and making such a mistake means sure death). {F22434}


Legacy ID
Steps To Reproduce

Get behind a wall, lean and put the tgt in the sights. If you can shoot it but the bullets hit the wall, then you know it's happening :)

*in real life you can't aim to a tgt if there's an object that prevents the tip of the gun from seeing it. If the tip can't move there because of obstacle, neither can the sight because the 2 are OBVIOUSLY geometrically connected*.

Event Timeline

GShock edited Steps To Reproduce. (Show Details)Oct 4 2013, 2:59 PM
GShock edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
GShock set Category to Engine.
GShock set Reproducibility to Always.
GShock set Severity to None.
GShock set Resolution to Open.
GShock set Legacy ID to 3354245031.May 7 2016, 5:03 PM
AD2001 added a subscriber: AD2001.May 7 2016, 5:03 PM
AD2001 added a comment.Oct 4 2013, 5:41 PM

The game already lets you know that something is blocking the gun by moving your crosshairs to the object that's blocking it.

The problem with this is that it isn't really useful when crosshairs are disabled.

/didn't vote

GShock added a comment.Oct 4 2013, 6:03 PM

The engine must take into account physical impossibilities.
If the sight is on the enemy the tip of the rifle must be on the enemy as well.

Get to the Showcase Armed Assault at the final part, after clearing the industrial complex of AT soldiers and get the sniper rifle with the ultra zoom optics (I think it's thermal 20x, the one with the MG version).

There's a building on the left side of the road just opposite to the fixed titan launcher position where you can go on top floor and see the road block. You are supposed to snipe that titan fixed emplacement and you can see 2 soldiers in a watchtower.

If you lie prone and aim for the soldier in the watchtower (the leftmost soldier), you'll see you hit the fence of the balcony. So you see... the sight is aimed on a spot but the rifle is shooting on another spot.

The engine is RIDDLED with these instances. It's a very serious problem.


Do another test in the same mission, this time before clearing the industrial complex. You'll climb the hill to take cover behind a rubbled building to shoot a fixed titan launcher on the top of a high tank. Further on the right below you there's a flat ridge which overlooks the industrial complex from the top.

Lie down there and you can see CLEARLY that the AI is shooting THROUGH the ridge and killing you.

Repeat: you can't even put your rifle past the ridge to aim because you're lying prone. The enemy is below and is shooting THROUGH the ridge to kill you.

Again: the engine is FILLED with these instances. Putting the rifle through an object or a bullet through an object must be fixed. That ridge is an object and by lying prone I must not be allowed to aim downwards. Same goes for the AI below, that ridge is an object and those bullets can't kill me. I am in hard cover to them... right now... I get killed and this is unacceptable.

Can produce videos if you need. I am absolutely sure of what I am saying.

Sure, make some videos.

Test on balcony with sniper rifle. Notice the bullet hole in the fence ahead of me:

I say again: If sight is on target it means the line of fire is on target. Bullet cannot hit anything else between shooter and target.

Now this is what happened with the sniper rifle... when it happens with a standard submachine gun with iron sights it feels even worse.

You are ducking behind a rock, you aim at the target and put it in the sights. You shoot... and hit the rock.

If the sight is on the target how can the line of fire be on the rock?

Simple... the engine is bugged.

Engine must PHYSICALLY taking objects into account so that if your motion of the rifle puts it against the rock the motion is BLOCKED. It's the same as trying to walk through a wall. YOU CAN'T. The movement of the rifle with the mouse must reflect this. If you try to put the rifle up and hit a wall the rifle goes down. If you try to aim at a target and a rock blocks your rifle you CAN'T physically put the sight onto it, you understand now? :)

Again and final: If the sight is on the enemy the tip of the rifle must be on the enemy as well. If some obstacle intervenes, the sight can't get onto target, it will get onto obstacle and no further than that.

So, the issue here is the rifle clipping into the objects?

seseta added a subscriber: seseta.May 7 2016, 5:03 PM

Im not following either... sorry :/

If you mean that while standing behind cover your bullets don't go where you aim... that might be because... I dunno, your aiming reticle is higher than the muzzle of your gun? As AD said, the crosshair on 1st person indicates where the muzzle is being positioned. Also, wasn't there a changelog that prevented clipping from assault rifles? I remember it being talked about.

This issue you have with you hitting the cover can be addressed by using the stance adjustment key. It was put there for this specific reason (I think)

Still, not really sure what you are trying to imply...might be that Im running on caffeine right now and my understanding abilities are a little asleep at the moment

The issue is: since the SIGHT is GEOMETRICALLY aligned to the muzzle (LOS = LOF) when your sight is on the target, NO OBSTACLE between you and the target can interfere with the bullet if it doesn't interfere with the sight as well.

Look at the video.

Lean behind a rock, any rock, and target a tree somewhere else. IF you can find the tree in the sight but you hit the rock, you know it's happening (LOS <> LOF).

The mouse must not allow you to move the rifle in a place where it would hit an obstacle (and this is the change I am asking for).

Get away from the screen and stand by the wall at 5cm distance in the real world.
Could grab the pistol from the socket on your thigh and use the sight to aim? No... because you can't extend your arms and you can't make the pistol pass through the wall.

Now THIS is what's happening in the engine: SIGHT sees target but muzzle points at the wall.
IF wall EXISTS between you and the target how can the sight see the target!?

Do you understand now?

Summarized: if the sight sees the target then so does the muzzle but this doesn't happen in ArmA 3.

I've made a quick illustration to explain your problem.
Just make sure that your muzzle is clear before firing.

The image you posted explains perfectly what happens in the engine: The line from the sight looks at the target while the muzzle is not looking at the target.

The line of sight and line of fire, displayed in the image, are parallel but this is NEVER the case. Even shooting a target very far away means an adjustment of a few cm in the optics as those 2 lines are NEVER parallel (you'd never hit anything if they were).

In real life, in the situation described by the image, your optics would see the wall because that's what the muzzle is "seeing".

It's not "my problem" it's a problem of the engine. It's the *bug* I am trying to have fixed.

You mentioned centimetres...
Rifle scopes are adjusted at Micron precission.
Adjusting it by an entire centimetre (1000 microns!!!) could put your aim literally miles out :-s

The LOS & LOF appear parallel but they're set up to converge at long distances, so the angle is barely noticeable to the human eye.
If the scope was set up to aim at the muzzel you wouldn't be able to see through it due to the barrel being in the way :-s

Feral, if the optics is not 1 meter above the rifle itself you will see the obstacle that lies in front of the muzzle.

I keep telling you that this is an ENGINE problem and not an optics/sights problem because it happens all along, with any rifle and not just with rifles.

Do a test:

Get behind a rock and shoot an enemy with IRON SIGHTS. You will see there are many cases in which you're perfectly aligned to the enemy but he won't die. It's not that you're missing... you're hitting the rock you're hiding behind even though that enemy is in your sights.

*This would not be possible if the rifle was a physical entity that gets BLOCKED by the rock when you move it through it. What happens instead is that nothing gets past that rock (you don't and the bullets don't) except your rifle.
Your sight is behind the rock and clear but the muzzle is INSIDE the rock.

Do you understand what I am saying now?

BIS has chosen to highlight this with the crosshair. What I want is for the objects (trees, bushes, walls, vehicles, etc) to BLOCK the rifle.

The exact same principle depicted by FeralCircus applies to ironsights as well.

Not sure if you are trolling or just fail to make your point...

This is very serious.

  1. Look at where the sight is and look at the pieces of rock being hit by my bullets.
  1. Look at each recoil how the rifle goes up and how further "up" it must go before the bullets don't hit the rock anymore.
  1. By the end of the video look at how I move the rifle THROUGH the rock.

The change I am requesting is that when I move the mouse downwards (as in 3) ) the rifle can't go through the rock anymore exactly as if I hit the "W" key I can't walk through the rock.

Major consequence is that 1) won't happen again.

I am claiming that the rifle is no physical entity in this engine and can go through objects and that's why a sight 25cm behind a muzzle sees a target while the muzzle doesn't.

This is what happens when going prone and shooting downwards:

AI is clearly in my sights but my bullets are hitting the ground because the muzzle is beneath the ridge line.

I don't think there's need of further evidence about the rifle not being a physical entity in this engine. If it was, I could never be able to align the sight to the target because the ground would block my rifle.

And this is what I've been saying all along: the ground MUST block my rifle.

I now understand that you're complaining about the gun clipping into the geometry of the landscape and structure.
And I do agree that the gun should not clip through other geometry :-)

But I could still see that the shots in your videos were not possible before you even pulled the trigger.
Even if the muzzle wasn't clipping the ground (by moving back and changing stance) and you we're aiming from the same angle with the line of sight so close to the ground, that shot would still not be possible.

If that was not possible (and of course it's not), then the tgt can't be in the sight. The tgt is in the sight because the muzzle is clipping... if it wasn't clipping the ground would push the rifle up and the sight up and you would be unable to put the sight on that target.

Alleluja someone who finally understands. :)

Bohemia added a subscriber: Bohemia.May 7 2016, 5:03 PM

They used to have rifle clipping. It was the most annoying thing ever. That's why they removed it.

Pretty annoying to me that I am aiming at a target and my bullet hits the ground. At ELITE level it means you're dead.

They either fix the clipping or this game goes to the shelf. Try to believe, eventually there's too few playing the hard core thing but this is a game breaker to me.

Just merely seeing 5 votes no and 4 votes yes tells me these people better get to Battlefield, coz ARMA is not for them.

Creating new ticket with correct issue name and closing this one:

  • Me thinks votes are different when proper terms are used. I forgot "clipping" that's why you guys didn't understand what I was saying.