I suppose I'll start off with some background information. When shooting a rifle with a sound suppressor attached, there is a significant decrease in sound signature and recoil. Only when shooting subsonic ammunition will the rifle or pistol be totally quiet. When shooting standard supersonic ammunition through a suppressed weapon, the explosion that happens in the chamber of the weapon is quieted enormously, but the sound of the bullet breaking the sound barrier can still be heard. What I notice in the alpha is that when attaching a suppressor to a normal assault rifle featuring standard ammunition, there is no decrease in recoil and the weapon is totally quiet. Also notable, a shooter using a suppressed rifle, even with standard ammunition, is extremely difficult to locate due to the sound of supersonic ammunition echoing off of the landscape. Secondly, the particle effect for bullet splashes is not pronounced enough. Speaking from personal experience, those bullet splashes at 600 meters are akin to the ones I would normally see at ranges out to about 1800 yards when shooting my own rifle (a Savage 110 in 7mm Remington Magnum) in the desert heat with tons of mirage. Thirdly, looking at the dimensions of the 9mm cartridge that the pistols shoot in the alpha (9x21 as opposed to the old standard 9x19), it would seem likely that they would use supersonic loadings in a cartridge of that size due to the lack of truly heavy 9mm bullets. This means that a suppressor would be less useful than it could be. A possible suggestion would be to swap that 9mm out for a .45 caliber cartridge like .45 ACP (which is more powerful and also subsonic in many standard loadings), or even some heavy .40 caliber cartridge for a greater sectional density (and thus, better penetration) than the .45. Fourthly, in some semi-automatic rifles like the M14, manually cycling the action is required when shooting subsonic ammunition because there isn't enough gas to power the self-loading action of the rifle. Long-range shooting has been a hobby of mine for several years, so you can trust the source; anyway, there's some friendly advice for you guys, do with it what you will. I'm really enjoying the alpha, so keep up the great work!
Description
Details
- Legacy ID
- 2637829562
- Severity
- Tweak
- Resolution
- Open
- Reproducibility
- Always
- Category
- Gameplay
Attach suppressors to aforementioned weapons like 9mm pistol, M14 EBR, or the 6.5mm ARs, you'll see what I mean.
Event Timeline
some of that stuff you describe, I like much, but for understanding and worked with, voted up for, it needs to be seperated:
- create subsonic ammunition so the supersonic crack for rifles and pistols is no sound source anymore.
as you stated, it has to be a more powerful cartridge with the pistols, so higher velocity + higher velocity given by the suppressor=> need for slower burning powder to become subsonic.
- particles of bullet impacts in the landscape is not correctly shown
- when projectiles fell under the speed of sound, the crack that it is surrounding is loosing it, so you only hear the supersonic crack from the previous travel path, muzzle and depending on the distance to the muzzle, because the crack sound will spread out in the air, you cannot hear the shooter or identify the direction by sound ( visually by impact though ).
This is why military snipers often dont use suppressors, its not needed.
- when a pistol has a suppressor on it, there should be less recoil due to the heavier mass the bullet acts against.
I personally cannot imagine it to be that unevenly different recoil when used with a rifle.
so, thats what I read out of your post.
and every point needs a short "observed" and "requested/expected".
Suppressors actually don't increase or decrease velocity enough to be notable, they do however move your point of impact by a certain repeatable amount. Additionally, suppressors by the nature of their chambered design, not their weight, decrease recoil. A cross-section of a suppressor will show numerous baffles designed to decelerate the expanding gas that propel the bullet forward. A byproduct of the gases hitting these baffles is forward energy that reduces recoil. You would be surprised to see the amount of recoil a suppressor removes. A suppressor is essentially an encased muzzle brake. Just look on YouTube for videos showing the amount of recoil reduction a muzzle brake gives you.
I can't imagine snipers shooting through the sound barrier very often, because the transonic region (around 1000-1300 FPS, depending upon ambient conditions) wreaks havoc on accuracy. There is so much turbulence that, depending upon the profile of the bullet, can totally destabilize it and cause it to tumble. There is a reason that 1000 yard .308 Win (essentially the same as 7.62x51) shooters search high and low for a good transonic performing bullet. This usually means a flat-base bullet with a tangent ogive. Military snipers don't use those types of bullets, they use bullets with high ballistic efficiency to prolong the amount of time before the bullet wants to go subsonic for greater retained energy and a harder hit. This means a bullet with a secant ogive and a boat tail is best. Unfortunately, these types of bullets are also notorious for problems with going through the sound barrier; so a suppressor, under most conditions, would benefit a sniper.
Being a hunter- specifically and elk and deer hunter- I can tell you that you can locate the general direction that somebody has shot from by the report of the rifle.
Also notable, to make a normally supersonic cartridge subsonic, one must use a smaller amount of a faster burning powder to prevent an unwanted secondary explosion that, if the bullet was jammed into the rifling, could damage the firearm or the user.
Sorry for the long response, but there you have it.
Thanks for your response and criticism, it's good to know that somebody else is interested in getting this right!
I believe ArmA 2 had both supersonic and subsonic ammunition, so I think it's pretty safe to assume it will be in the full release too.