Change Details

**Game Version number: Experimental Build 1.3.0.25 ** **Modded?:**No) **Issue Description: ** Pen.Ability Of Large Cailber Projectiles are represented inaccurately, and the default ammo of American's M2'S is unfairly FMJ. The American 12.7×99mm M2HB & Soviet 14.5×114mm KVPT fail to penetrate a concrete 100m thick wall, whereas the Soviet 12.7×108mm NSV will, the M2HB despite being similar rounds, and 2x the penetration of the Soviet 14.5×114mm. I believe this is due to the Unusual Effects of the BS Armor Piercing, Incendiary Tracer rounds, which outclass the KVPT & m2hb's AP ammo. I believe the Soviet KVPT's 14.5×114mm APIT & M2HB AP 12.7×99mm penetration could be inaccurately modeled. Moreover, the general penetration values of these high calliber rounds are unrealistically weak, being unable to penetrate 100m of concrete. (or 3.93701 inches).... It seems the NSV's BS Armor Piercing Rounds have the more realistic penetration values being able to penetrate the 100mm wall. I believe all the penetration values of Armor Piercing rounds ingame should be increased. **M2HB Pen Ability** 12.7×99mm AP - 0.240 12.7×99mm Ball - 0.102 - This is more accurate, being unable to pennetrate more then about 50.8mm of concrete in real life. But is this pennetrate affect multiplied realistically for the AP ammo? No. See Below for realistic **`SideNOTE: `This ALSO presents a Major Game Balance problem due to the default ammo on American's M2HB's. **Due to these inconsistencies, the Default Ammo for M2HB's should always be the AP/APIT Boxes on M2 Machine Gun Nests, M2HB M1025 Light Armored Vehicles, and m151a2 Armed Off-Roads, as **95%+ of players won't take the time to swap out the FMJ ammo boxes for AP** in the Conflict gamemode, resulting in unfair, decreased performance. **From a Realistic Standpoint, the penetration values on these bullets are WAY too weak. They cannot penetrate a 100mm wall.** **.50 BMG APIT rounds should penetrate more then 100mm of concrete, this is unrealistic, it should have a real life penetration value of around 200mm in real life..** According to expert John Plaster, armor-piercing rounds at the shorter range of 100 yards (one football field) can penetrate nine inches of concrete, 1.8 inches of unarmored steel, 3.5 inches of aluminum, and 96 inches of timber. `Reference 1 ` https://www.originalwisdom.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/2019/03/Plaster_1993_ultimate-sniper-book.pdf SEE PDF PAGE 282-283 > "9 Inches of SOLID Concrete at short range" "2 inches with ball ammo" (228.6mm! FOR AP! ! - Nowhere near the amount that we see in-game) `Reference 2 - Real life video `**For Reference, here is a video of shooting APIT at concrete, netting 171mm of penetration through a Reinforced Concrete Jersey Barrier on the first shot!** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWWE_QiFQv8&ab_channel=GoingBallistic ---------------- **KVPT APIT Pen.Ability** 14.5×114mm B32 & BZT - 0.175 Is don't understand how a 14.5mm gun shooting APIT rounds can have similar ballistic penetration to a Ball .50 BMG? -------------------- **NSV Pen.Ability ** 12.7×108mm BTZ-44 Armor Piercing, Incendiary - 0.152 12.7×108mm BS Armor Piercing, Incendiary Tracer - 0.314 - This penetration is more accurate to real life, being able to penetrate the measly 100mm of concrete, yet it's much better then standard .50 BMG ammo, but still struggles: **The BS armor piercing round is so much stronger due to the cemented carbide (VK8 WC-Co, commonly called a "cermet" in Russian) core. It's more powerful then a KVPT's 14.55mm and the American's AP ammo, yet it still cannot penetrate 200mm of concrete, this is also unrealistic.. ** **Visual Example of Differences:** {F4749252} **In real life, we'd see all 3 of these Armor Piercing rounds exit the back of this 100mm thick concrete wall.** For testing purposes, use these destructible 100mm thick concrete walls we see across Everon and Arland seen in the photo. M2 AP {F4749310} NSV BS Armor Piercing, Incendiary Tracer {F4749268} KVPT B32 & BZT {F4749270} **Please consider lowering density & thickness of concrete surfaces or increase the penn.ability of 12.7×99mm AP rounds, 12.7×108mm AP rounds, and 14.5×114mm against materials, they lack anti-material punch against lighter concrete & brick surfaces in-game!**

**Game Version number: Experimental Build 1.3.0.25 ** **Modded?:**No) **Issue Description: ** Pen.Ability Of Large Cailber Projectiles are represented inaccurately, and the default ammo of American's M2'S is unfairly FMJ. The American 12.7×99mm M2HB & Soviet 14.5×114mm KVPT fail to penetrate a concrete 100m thick wall, whereas the Soviet 12.7×108mm NSV will, the M2HB despite being similar rounds, and 2x the penetration of the Soviet 14.5×114mm. I believe this is due to the Unusual Effects of the BS Armor Piercing, Incendiary Tracer rounds, which outclass the KVPT & m2hb's AP ammo. I believe the Soviet KVPT's 14.5×114mm APIT & M2HB AP 12.7×99mm penetration could be inaccurately modeled. Moreover, the general penetration values of these high calliber rounds are unrealistically weak, being unable to penetrate 100m of concrete. (or 3.93701 inches).... It seems the NSV's BS Armor Piercing Rounds have the more realistic penetration values being able to penetrate the 100mm wall. I believe all the penetration values of Armor Piercing rounds ingame should be increased. **M2HB Pen Ability** 12.7×99mm AP - 0.240 12.7×99mm Ball - 0.102 - This is more accurate, being unable to pennetrate more then about 50.8mm of concrete in real life. But is this pennetrate affect multiplied realistically for the AP ammo? No. See Below for realistic **`SideNOTE: `This ALSO presents a Major Game Balance problem due to the default ammo on American's M2HB's. **Due to these inconsistencies, the Default Ammo for M2HB's should always be the AP/APIT Boxes on M2 Machine Gun Nests, M2HB M1025 Light Armored Vehicles, and m151a2 Armed Off-Roads, as **95%+ of players won't take the time to swap out the FMJ ammo boxes for AP** in the Conflict gamemode, resulting in unfair, decreased performance. **From a Realistic Standpoint, the penetration values on these bullets are WAY too weak. They cannot penetrate a 100mm wall.** **.50 BMG APIT rounds should penetrate more then 100mm of concrete, this is unrealistic, it should have a real life penetration value of around 200mm in real life..** According to expert John Plaster, armor-piercing rounds at the shorter range of 100 yards (one football field) can penetrate nine inches of concrete, 1.8 inches of unarmored steel, 3.5 inches of aluminum, and 96 inches of timber. `Reference 1 ` https://www.originalwisdom.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/2019/03/Plaster_1993_ultimate-sniper-book.pdf SEE PDF PAGE 282-283 > "9 Inches of SOLID Concrete at short range" "2 inches with ball ammo" (228.6mm! FOR AP! ! - Nowhere near the amount that we see in-game) `Reference 2 - Real life video `**For Reference, here is a video of shooting APIT at concrete, netting 171mm of penetration through a Reinforced Concrete Jersey Barrier on the first shot!** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWWE_QiFQv8&ab_channel=GoingBallistic ---------------- **KVPT APIT Pen.Ability** 14.5×114mm B32 & BZT - 0.175 Is don't understand how a 14.5mm gun shooting APIT rounds can have similar ballistic penetration to a Ball .50 BMG? -------------------- **NSV Pen.Ability ** 12.7×108mm BTZ-44 Armor Piercing, Incendiary - 0.152 12.7×108mm BS Armor Piercing, Incendiary Tracer - 0.314 - This penetration is more accurate to real life, being able to penetrate the measly 100mm of concrete, yet it's much better then standard .50 BMG ammo, but still struggles: **The BS armor piercing round is so much stronger due to the cemented carbide (VK8 WC-Co, commonly called a "cermet" in Russian) core. It's more powerful then a KVPT's 14.55mm and the American's AP ammo, yet it still cannot penetrate 200mm of concrete, this is also unrealistic.. ** **Visual Example of Differences:** {F4749252} **In real life, we'd see all 3 of these Armor Piercing rounds exit the back of this 100mm thick concrete wall.** For testing purposes, use these destructible 100mm thick concrete walls we see across Everon and Arland seen in the photo. M2 AP {F4749310} NSV BS Armor Piercing, Incendiary Tracer {F4749268} KVPT B32 & BZT {F4749270} **Please consider lowering density & thickness of concrete surfaces or increase the penn.ability of 12.7×99mm AP rounds, 12.7×108mm AP rounds, and 14.5×114mm against materials, they lack anti-material punch against lighter concrete & brick surfaces in-game!** **I believe this can be most easily achieved by adjusting the density modifiers for concrete and brick surfaces to allow for more realistic penetration calculations. This could avoid any normal damage calculations being harmed, and allow penetration to feel more closely to Arma 3's Terminal Ballistics when interreacting with materials.** {F4750824}

**Game Version number: Experimental Build 1.3.0.25 ** **Modded?:**No) **Issue Description: ** Pen.Ability Of Large Cailber Projectiles are represented inaccurately, and the default ammo of American's M2'S is unfairly FMJ. The American 12.7×99mm M2HB & Soviet 14.5×114mm KVPT fail to penetrate a concrete 100m thick wall, whereas the Soviet 12.7×108mm NSV will, the M2HB despite being similar rounds, and 2x the penetration of the Soviet 14.5×114mm. I believe this is due to the Unusual Effects of the BS Armor Piercing, Incendiary Tracer rounds, which outclass the KVPT & m2hb's AP ammo. I believe the Soviet KVPT's 14.5×114mm APIT & M2HB AP 12.7×99mm penetration could be inaccurately modeled. Moreover, the general penetration values of these high calliber rounds are unrealistically weak, being unable to penetrate 100m of concrete. (or 3.93701 inches).... It seems the NSV's BS Armor Piercing Rounds have the more realistic penetration values being able to penetrate the 100mm wall. I believe all the penetration values of Armor Piercing rounds ingame should be increased. **M2HB Pen Ability** 12.7×99mm AP - 0.240 12.7×99mm Ball - 0.102 - This is more accurate, being unable to pennetrate more then about 50.8mm of concrete in real life. But is this pennetrate affect multiplied realistically for the AP ammo? No. See Below for realistic **`SideNOTE: `This ALSO presents a Major Game Balance problem due to the default ammo on American's M2HB's. **Due to these inconsistencies, the Default Ammo for M2HB's should always be the AP/APIT Boxes on M2 Machine Gun Nests, M2HB M1025 Light Armored Vehicles, and m151a2 Armed Off-Roads, as **95%+ of players won't take the time to swap out the FMJ ammo boxes for AP** in the Conflict gamemode, resulting in unfair, decreased performance. **From a Realistic Standpoint, the penetration values on these bullets are WAY too weak. They cannot penetrate a 100mm wall.** **.50 BMG APIT rounds should penetrate more then 100mm of concrete, this is unrealistic, it should have a real life penetration value of around 200mm in real life..** According to expert John Plaster, armor-piercing rounds at the shorter range of 100 yards (one football field) can penetrate nine inches of concrete, 1.8 inches of unarmored steel, 3.5 inches of aluminum, and 96 inches of timber. `Reference 1 ` https://www.originalwisdom.com/wp-content/uploads/bsk-pdf-manager/2019/03/Plaster_1993_ultimate-sniper-book.pdf SEE PDF PAGE 282-283 > "9 Inches of SOLID Concrete at short range" "2 inches with ball ammo" (228.6mm! FOR AP! ! - Nowhere near the amount that we see in-game) `Reference 2 - Real life video `**For Reference, here is a video of shooting APIT at concrete, netting 171mm of penetration through a Reinforced Concrete Jersey Barrier on the first shot!** https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWWE_QiFQv8&ab_channel=GoingBallistic ---------------- **KVPT APIT Pen.Ability** 14.5×114mm B32 & BZT - 0.175 Is don't understand how a 14.5mm gun shooting APIT rounds can have similar ballistic penetration to a Ball .50 BMG? -------------------- **NSV Pen.Ability ** 12.7×108mm BTZ-44 Armor Piercing, Incendiary - 0.152 12.7×108mm BS Armor Piercing, Incendiary Tracer - 0.314 - This penetration is more accurate to real life, being able to penetrate the measly 100mm of concrete, yet it's much better then standard .50 BMG ammo, but still struggles: **The BS armor piercing round is so much stronger due to the cemented carbide (VK8 WC-Co, commonly called a "cermet" in Russian) core. It's more powerful then a KVPT's 14.55mm and the American's AP ammo, yet it still cannot penetrate 200mm of concrete, this is also unrealistic.. ** **Visual Example of Differences:** {F4749252} **In real life, we'd see all 3 of these Armor Piercing rounds exit the back of this 100mm thick concrete wall.** For testing purposes, use these destructible 100mm thick concrete walls we see across Everon and Arland seen in the photo. M2 AP {F4749310} NSV BS Armor Piercing, Incendiary Tracer {F4749268} KVPT B32 & BZT {F4749270} **Please consider lowering density & thickness of concrete surfaces or increase the penn.ability of 12.7×99mm AP rounds, 12.7×108mm AP rounds, and 14.5×114mm against materials, they lack anti-material punch against lighter concrete & brick surfaces in-game!** **I believe this can be most easily achieved by adjusting the density modifiers for concrete and brick surfaces to allow for more realistic penetration calculations. This could avoid any normal damage calculations being harmed, and allow penetration to feel more closely to Arma 3's Terminal Ballistics when interreacting with materials.** {F4750824}