Go back to the original version of attack helicopters (AH-99) that had the gunner in the front seat. Every attack helicopter that I'm aware of, has the pilot in the rear seat and most protected position. Why you ask? What good is a gunner if the pilot has been shot?

I'm not saying its a necessity to incorporate weight and balance, but it would definitely add to the realism. You are already limited to what each aircraft can carry. I have a separate ticket already for more realistic countermeasures. http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=10475

Concur. Fuel, passengers and cargo stores should effect weight and balance of the aircraft. This should effect the torque (power available) of the engines and transmissions and the way the aircraft handles and flies. More weight = less power available and less maneuverability.

implement please

Related to #10475

I think that he general consensus here is that the rotors shouldn't stop or be blown away at all. But I do agree that a new ticket should be opened to address this new issue.

I concur with Worldsprayer. I would like to add that I've also noticed that ARMA treats the helicopters as if they are single engine aircraft, when in fact, they should still be able to fly after losing one engine. Provided they are still within single engine parameters. Meaning that they aren't too heavy.

The Devs are more than welcome to contact me and I'd gladly provide technical advice.

@all - rockets do not lock on, some missiles have the capability. Most missiles that are capable of locking onto heat signatures, do so by focusing on the heat signature provided my the engine's EXHAUST (where the heat signature is the greatest since the combusted fuel exits the engine). In most cases, the exhaust is a few meters away from the main rotor head. I see almost ZERO peobability of shrapnel from an RPG or "heat seeking" missile that contacts the vicinity of the exhaust causing catastrophic damage to the main rotor head. It piercing through a few rotor blades is possible, which in most cases will allow the pilot to somewhat attempt a landing. The only probability that I could see a rotor head being completely destroyed is a direct hit. Even then, schrapnel piercing through almost a solid inch of solid steel or titanium is unlikely. I speak from experience, over 12 years as a helicopter mechanic/crew chief.

I tested this today with the MH-9 multiple times. The main rotor blades and rotor head do disappear after hit for a second time.

@ ataraxic89, good assessment and suggestions. I recommend that you create a new ticket for the little bird rotors.

Thank you hladas, I'll try to confirm the fix tonight.

All valid points. Rotors should remain spinning so the pilot may attempt an auto rotation. BI - care to weigh in? And maybe assign this to be fixed instead of just being "reviewed".

Exactly. So rotor collisions should be disabled OR make it so AA can't disable the rotors.

We have fiberglass rotor blades that have a titanium leading edge and ceramic armor that protects our engines and flight controls. You have to consider strength/protection versus weight/power available.

Until this issue is fixed, you won't see any helicopters explode midair because the drop to the ground as soon as they are hit. You don't have the chance to cause enough damage.

Most military aircraft have a ballistic self sealing fuel cell to prevent fuel leakage and explosions. They protect up to a .50 caliber round.

It is not depending on if the rotors are hit or not. They wil still continue to spin no matter what unless the rotor blades completely shear off. Even if they do shear completely off, the rotor heads will still continue to spin even without rotor blades.

I agree with Georgeasaurausrex. I tested this last night with the latest dev build. This issue is still not resolved. It's extremely unrealistic to have the rotor immediately stop when impacted by something. No matter if the engines are damaged or not. They rotors have mass and Newton's first law applies. The rotors will remain in motion and you should be allowed to reduce collective to build rotor RPM as you are falling out of the sky to utilize that rotor speed to cushion your crash or "auto-rotate" if you will. The only scenario that I can think of to cause this issue is transmission seizure.

Devs/mods, could we get an update on this?

I do. The scenario I listed is a real world mission that we perform. We deploy small boats and divers from a 5 foot hover over the ocean. We call it "Helo Cast" and "Soft Duck".

Helocast from the cabin of a CH-46E http://d1.static.dvidshub.net/media/thumbs/photos/1005/277346/450x300_q75.jpg
Soft duck from a CH-46E
http://veramarnavalproducts.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/DM-SD-01-05970.jpg

@ CinoSete, the V-22 Osprey is a medium lift aircraft. The CH-53E "Sea Stallion" or Pavelow and CH-47 Chinook are US Military's current heavy lift helicopters. Those, or a futuristic variant would be good to implement into Arma 3. As for fixed wing aircraft. The C-130, C17 or C5 would be good at doing heavy lifts/air drops.
@ SuicideKing, the helicopter insertion at night wouldn't be much of a concern if you are on the otherside of a ridgeline (avoiding visual or aural acquisition), in a stealth aircraft, and maintain proper light discipline.

But the main topic here is, YES incorporate airdrops and the ability to slingload and load internal cargo. I'm thinking of loading a RHIB (rigid hull inflatable boat, e.g. Zodiac) internally, hovering over the ocean, and deploying it from my helicopter for a beach raid or recon team insertion.

I noticed this while playing the other day.

If a cabin light were to be incorporated PLEASE do NOT let it be RED!!! Red is one of the worst (brightest) colors on NVGs. As a real life helicopter crew chief, you have to maintain light discipline so that you don't have a reflection off of the windscreen and blind the pilots. If it's implemented, please leave the option to turn it off. We almost NEVER turn on the cabin lights in flight (especially when there is the possibility of an enemy threat) and if we do it's blue or green.

He said "should". That means that BI is no longer making any promises about its content.

And Progamer, I disagree with your suggestion that the brakes be controlled via the mouse wheel. It's already cluttered as it is, I recommend it be set to a keybinding.

So when are they adding it to helicopters then? After full release?

I was hoping today's update (dev 0.77 build) would have it incorporated.

It's tough to do a running landing when you have to wait for your gear to be extended automatically. BI you need to implement this.

Related to #10475

@DarkWanderer the game is set in the future and you would expect every aircraft to have advanced avionics (electronic systems)

I think this should be incorporated as well as removing ability to jump from pilot to copilot seat in-flight.

Boat sounds weren't working properly when the boat is beached. No sound from it at all until you exit the boat. Then you will hear it. This is on the latest dev build as of today.

This is a necessary thing to incorporate. Almost EVERY combat aircraft has a missile warning system and the majority of them are tied in with the chaff/flare system. For example, the AAR-47 system is tied into the AN/ALE-47 system.

Aircraft handle MUCH better in the latest dev build.

And a Hind because it has the ability to carry passengers. The Havok and Hokum don't.

@ Fri13 - I'm very familiar with the way helicopters should handle as I have over 1,000 flight hours in them.

As stated before by the devs, this isn't a proper flight sim so a lot if these things will not be incorporated. Latest dev build has shown great improvements in flight dynamics. You are now able to do quick stops and the aircraft is much more responsive to cyclic and collective inputs (minus the roll channel). Haven't had the opportunity to test the damage model when you're hit by an RPG and the rotors immediately stop and you just fall to the ground

Mi-48 looks like a combo of a Havoc, Hind and Hokum.

I think the current flight model in the latest dev build (as of last night) is dramatically better than it has been. However, the roll axis on most aircraft (the Ghosthawk in particular) is very slow. There is currently a ticket on that issue.

I understand that, you still have the ability to roll on a landing (slightly). Adding a parking brake that could be toggled would be a good thing so that you can do running take-offs and landings and also ground taxi.

@ Ezcoo, I disagree with a lot of the statements that you made. Have you flown a helicopter in real life? S-turns, "U-turns", and spiral approaches are used in real life. It depends on the type of zone and the profile that you have to use while shooting an approach to that zone. Who cares about making it "easier" for newbie pilots? Flying takes practice to master. A LOT of practice. If the devs were so kind to keep the flight dynamics similar to Arma2: OA, I'd be happy. That's probably the most realistic game/sim that I've played with regards to aircraft physics/dynamics and encountering enemy threats.

Ground taxi isn't necessary if you can properly air taxi and know how to properly navigate / aviate around an airfield. But it's definitely a nice thing to have and will add to the realism/immersion!

Priority for this fix should be upgraded to "Major" this will be game breaking for many users such as myself.

It seems that they slightly improved the collective and flight characteristics. It's (almost) like flying in ARMA 2. They still need to refine the physics to allow for "quickstops" when inserting troops into a zone/rooftop. And I was attempting running landings around 30 mph last night. The helicopters roll on their wheels but it's as if the brakes are applied immediately after touchdown. This will be good for landing on a slope and parking, but this should be user initiated by toggling with a key bind.

What I meant to say is that the current flight model's physics don't allow you to do quick stops like they did in Arma 2. It seems like now when I attempt a quickstop in most aircraft I either "balloon" up or gain airspeed instead of bleeding off airspeed and altitude. The collective still needs refining.

+1 pilot should have sole control over rockets. Gunner controls guided munitions and turret.

This seems somewhat fixed. I placed an MH-9 over the runway facing heading 200. Set the wind at max velocity heading 200. I flew up and down the runway using headings 200 and 020 and noted the airspeed differences multiple times. It seems that you fly faster with a tail wind.

I also held a steady hover over the runway at various headings and altitudes (in ground effect and out of ground effect) and could not get the wind to cause my helicopter to drift at all. You should have to slightly apply flight control input into the wind to counter the effects and not have any drift.

Tested in Beta Dev 0.75.108659

This ticket is dependent on if the indicated is taken from the aircraft's pitot tubes or from the aircraft's GPS giving a "true airspeed" or ground speed. If you are flying into the wind (headwind) your indicated airspeed will be higher than your ground speed. If you are flying with the wind (tailwind) your groundspeed will be higher than your ground speed because the wind is effectively pushing you forward.

Here is a more in debth explanation of what I'm talking about.

I think this is an issue with mission design as this has only happened to me on certain MP servers.

So far, this has only happened to me in the Mi-48 and only when playing on MP servers.

Update: this also happens in the AH-99 when getting in the gunner seat and selecting take controls. Or, now in general anytime I get in the helicopter. Is there some type of restriction?

I agree that it's a server/MP issue. I've never had this issue anywhere else except playing Domination. Please update title to specify MP.

This happened to me on a domination server when attempting to steal the enemies Mi-48 from camp Rogain.

I've been automatically ejected everytime I land in the water with the latest dev build.

It still exists. Happened to me the other day.

Another thing I noticed was I accidentally touched the water going about 150 kph and the helicopter just froze there for a second. I pulled collective and continued flying just fine with slight damage to the hull I think.

Note: this is with the latest dev build as of today.

Tested this again with the latest dev build as of last night. Helicopters still plummet to the bottom of the ocean once the water touches the engine and it magically transforms to the damage model. Also, it is "insta-death" once this happens.

If you read my comment above about testing this in the beta build, the damage doesn't really occur in a hover until you enter the water almost up to the engines.

Notice how they were just barely skimming the surface of the water. If they allowed their wheels to go much deeper there would be so much drag that the planes would crash in the water.

Touching your gear in the water at speed isn't a good idea as it creates drag and will cause you to crash. No reason to change that.

If they implemented the suggestions that you just listed:
A. You jettison the escape hatches as soon as the aircraft hits the water.
B. You may as well have them add HABID bottles (helicopter aircrew breathing devices) and LPUs (life preserver units/flotation devices).

As far as the the things the ticket lists. Is mostly fixed. Some things are not practical so change: emergency exits are mostly the primary entries/exits already used. Helicopters do not "land and float on water" when this is done there is always power remaining on the rotors unless "ditching". Some aircraft do have the ability to remain afloat for some time with the rotors stopped, however if you were ever in that situation you would jettison your life raft and call for extraction.

I don't recall the helicopter rolling once sinking so maybe the ticket should stay open.

I'm only addressing those items specifically listed in the ticket.

Tested this yesterday with the latest dev build. Helicopters will quickly begin taking damage once you get the water almost up to the engines from a hover. Once your chopper is disabled by the water, it sinks quickly and its still hard to get out (but possible). When you hover you also get sea spray coming up but the water doesn't ripple around where the helicopter is hovering.

So... As far as this ticket is concerned, I'd say its resolved even though the helicopter doesn't roll over when sinking.

It would be awesome to have a bulldozer for an engineer to create a FARP. Just clear out some trees and build one there.

Upvoted, this really needs to be implemented. Only issue I had with externally lifting cargo in Arma 2 was that it seemed to be fixed rigidly to the bottom of the aircraft. In real life, cargo is attached by a cargo sling or pendant. It should add to the weight that the engines and rotors are already lifting. It should also maintain it's own inertia and swing based on helicopter movement. E.G. the aircraft rolls left while in forward flight and the cargo swings to the outside of the turn (right).

Up voted. This is a MUST HAVE for aircraft.

I was just going to add the interview from pixel enemy. It's pretty much confirmed that they will be experimenting with adding Oculus Rift support to Arma3. That's a direct statement from Project lead Joris-Jan van’t Land.

This happens with both digital and analog key binds. Attempted with keyboard and mouse flying, Saitek X52 Pro flight controller joystick and with Thrustmaster Dual Power 2 controller. Seems pretty similar to other issues reported.

Seems to be resolved in latest dev build (0.71.107443). Although, the aircraft are extremely sluggish to cyclic input now. In particular, the Ghosthawk in the roll channel of flight.

Also, these current flight physics cause the player to almost come to a complete stop/hover before being able to gain enough altitude to clear the obstacle. This could be game breaking for me.

Even while pressing he "collective up" key.

Were you joining a NON-dev build server? If so, I believe this is what is causing your issue.

Mods please change the category from "Other" to "Feature Request".

Devs/mods, could we get an update on this?

You shouldn't be able to board the helicopter via fast rope. It's only used for insertion. SPIE Rigging may be what you are thinking of. Even then you still will not re-board the aircraft until you land.

Agreed! Mods and Devs, any word on when this will be implemented?

Lmao!

Agree with the general. Once the flight crew Says its ok to deploy ropes and ropers, then players get the option to exit the aircraft.

http://youtu.be/WsQenCOQud4

Too lazy to edit prior to upload = more time to test beta. :-)

Real life.

Not really what I meant. I meant to say that it's a feature in the game. Hopefully BIS decides to incorporate it. I took some video of us doing fast rope training yesterday. When I get the opportunity to edit it, I'll upload it and post a link here.

Hopefully BIS doesn't let rockstar show them up with GTA: V. Looks like they have rappelling.

http://youtu.be/N-xHcvug3WI

@rogerx I thanks for the props, I think deployment authority should remain solely with the helicopter crew. And I made a test mission doing helocast in the ocean northeast of kamino with AI being the swimmers deployed and an AI pilot using a the simple "eject.sqf" file and a few script commands. Seemed to work fine from a 3 meter hover and then to a separate waypoint to drop more troops. Wasn't very hard to set up.

already upvoted your ticket tyl3r99. I really hope this makes it into the game.
@Raoul1234, in MP I would only want the pilot deploying the ropes as he is certain where he wants the DZ/LZ to be and only he (or the crew of the heli) know if those certain parameters that I listed above are being met. If http://feedback.arma3.com/view.php?id=11245 (tyl3r99's ticket for the fastrope WP) gets implemented then you'll get your wish about the AI deploying them.

I have a number of things to say on this topic as I'm somewhat of a subject matter expert. (US Marine helicopter crewchief)

@SnIpEr.IT, fastroping has nothing to do with CQB. It's a method of insertion when it either isn't possible or feasible to land.
@rogerx, as far as your suggestions how to implement, I'd say you have the order a little mixed up. Here are my suggestions (modifications of yours):
Ropes will deploy when,

1. The PILOT activates the "deploy fast ropes" option (via mouse menu). [only available when at airspeeds below 5 mph and altitude between 25-50 feet]
2. The passengers activate the "fast rope" option (via mouse menu). [only after the pilot has deployed the fast ropes] Ropes will remain until there are no players on the rope. Then the pilot will receive a "Rope Undeploy" option replacing the "Deploy Fast Ropes" menu option. But to reduce menu clutter, the option may only be present once the conditions above are met?

DEVS, I would also suggest adding in SPIE Rigging along with this. And keep in mind that fast roping isn't done one person at a time. Fast roping is unique to the aircraft. Little birds typically fast rope simultaneously from each side of the helicopter. The CH-47, CH-46 and CH-53 typically fast rope from the "hell hole" and the ramp simultaneously. You want to minimize your time spent hovering over enemy held territory as you are in a VERY vulnerable position. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tt8OLMDn6RI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hj0Zwi7nzY4
Those are some decent examples.

Excellent points made by all of you. Upvoted

Confirmed. The APR-39 provides an audible tone and visual indication and direction of a radar lock. The AN/ALE-47 provides an audible tone and visual indication and direction of an incoming missile and automatically deploys chaff/flares. Related to #10475

Yeah you have to eject them at low altitudes (approx 5 meters or less) and low airspeed (below 15 KPH).

I have done it with the eject command as well. Triggered by a radio call "Alpha".

Confirmed. I have the same issue using a Thrustmaster Dual Power 2. Have tried using my Saitek X52 Pro with the same issues listed above.

I don't think this ticket should be classified as major as the basic game functionality isn't really effected.

I am not sure you should be able to eject from a helicopter while in flight. I am unaware of any helicopter with an ejection seat or any helicopter pilots that fly while wearing a parachute (with the exception of test pilots). Helicopters have the unique ability to auto-rotate allowing the pilot to try and cushion the landing/crash upon engine failure. (that's if the dev team ever fixes the helicopter flight model/physics)

Edit: this comment only applies to the helicopter crew, not passengers who wish to parachute/dive.

Do they now have functional brakes? Or do you still land with the parking brake applied? Or is it like Arma 2 with no brakes at all?

You guys are hilarious. Cracking up at this.

Using a suppressor (silencer) doesn't actually "silence" your weapon contrary to what you see in the movies. It simply reduces the decibel level of the shots fired. In real life if I hear a round wizzing by my head, I'm going to take cover, try to determine where it originated (especially if more than 1 shot was fired), suppress where I think it originated while other friendlies maneuver/flank the enemy.

@ hladas - that's exactly what I do when I'm tracking enemies lol