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T-100 doesn't have a coaxial MG.
Closed, ResolvedPublic

Description

T-100 doesn't have coaxial MG. Which doesn't make sense because most modern tanks have a coaxial MG.

Details

Legacy ID
432429047
Severity
None
Resolution
Fixed
Reproducibility
Always
Category
Feature Request

Event Timeline

samogon edited Steps To Reproduce. (Show Details)Sep 4 2013, 8:30 PM
samogon edited Additional Information. (Show Details)
samogon set Category to Feature Request.
samogon set Reproducibility to Always.
samogon set Severity to None.
samogon set Resolution to Fixed.
samogon set Legacy ID to 432429047.May 7 2016, 4:29 PM
Byku added a subscriber: Byku.May 7 2016, 4:29 PM
Byku added a comment.Sep 4 2013, 10:04 PM

Agree, i was quiet surprised when wanted to kill a soldier in front. What was the logic behind that? I suppose it would be a major flaw in real life? Similar situation with M2A1 - no gun for commander...

TTc30 added a subscriber: TTc30.May 7 2016, 4:29 PM
TTc30 added a comment.Sep 4 2013, 10:37 PM

Less is more? or...

Byku added a comment.Sep 4 2013, 10:39 PM

quality over quantity? or... :P

TTc30 added a comment.Sep 4 2013, 10:44 PM

It isn't modeled either, but they will probably make a version that's more suited for urban combat like the m1a2 TUSK. Maybe they are just meant for long range combat after all, but it's true that the gunner will get bored or dead in urban combat since he has no role really.

Both MBTs seriously need a MG for both, gunner and commander.

samogon added a subscriber: samogon.May 7 2016, 4:29 PM

M2A1 commander MG isn't nessesary,they already have 6 passanger seats.
But I cant even imagine even poor tank without coaxial machinegun in modern times.

"M2A1 commander MG isn't nessesary,they already have 6 passanger seats."
This is not about balancing.

Well,still think that commander MG isn't that nessesary.I prefer to remove commander MG on T100,but if they will have coaxial MG,because they're much important,that commander IMO.But well,looks like nothing will changes here.And this sad :(

The issue is about the T-100 not having a coxial gun, though from the model it appears like it wouldn't have a coxial gun. I personally hope this isn't a form of "balance".

AD2001 added a subscriber: AD2001.May 7 2016, 4:29 PM

I wish only the T-100 got a coax and the Merkava didn't get anything for the commander.

@AD2001 You have something like a reason for that?

The Merkava has passenger seats.

I don't think anyone now or in the 2030s would design a tank without coaxial armament and a exterior armament for the commander ( for anti-aircraft purposes, and support)

so I think it's realism vs. balancing

"The Merkava has passenger seats."
You know the existence of passenger seats is technically independent of the existence of an additional MG?

War is not fair. The faction's equipment is not supposed to exactly match each other. You might have noticed, the maps are not symmetrically either (as they are in some PVP-Egoshooters).
If you want a thrilling battle, give the weaker site an advantage in terrain, numbers or whatever. But don't try to make the individual units balanced to an assumed "counterpart". There is none.

@alphazulu90

Realism vs balancing? Aren't the passenger seats usually used for ammo IRL?

@AD2001
Well, in that case I'm all for removing those seats but still for adding a commander's MG.

So, you want the tanks to be the same?

Byku added a comment.Sep 11 2013, 7:43 PM

We want the tanks to be authentic ;). FYI the Merkava can carry 6 passengers in RL... i'm really suprised by that O.O.

Yes, it can, but the passenger area is usually used to store ammunition.

Byku added a comment.Sep 11 2013, 8:10 PM

Yeah, personally i would prefer two less seats and more ammo... but... well... anyway... MG for T-100 all the way:P

Karb added a subscriber: Karb.May 7 2016, 4:29 PM
Karb added a comment.Sep 12 2013, 2:55 AM

Maybe you need a tool bag and a MG from the weapons crate and then attach it to the coaxial mounting point on the tank?

Well,usually Merkava have 60mm mortar in cargo(Yes it is),but nobody suggest it.Every one want commander RCWS for them.So looks like everyone compare it with M1A2 TUSK,but not with real Merkava.Also many modern tanks have small caliber RCWS,like new T90MS(T90A had 12.7,MS - 7.62),because they're not so much nessesary,as AA MG,well modern helicopters are enough armored to resist 12.7 and have lack of weak spots,modern planes are to fast for them.

Why coaxial MG is nessesary - gunner sight usually have better magnification,that commader sight and allow to fire well accurate,but usage of main gun is inadequate for some kind of targets.

Bohemia added a subscriber: Bohemia.May 7 2016, 4:29 PM

Both tanks should have two machineguns, one for commander other for gunner

I agree with aoshi, or maybe instead of commanders a 60mm :P

Gekkibi added a subscriber: Gekkibi.May 7 2016, 4:29 PM

I put an end to this "why coax machinegun is necessary" debate:
Usually the argument against coax I have heard so far goes "but TC have a machinegun, and can engage infantry with that". By using the same logic AT specialist shouldn't have a rifle either, because his squad leader can always engage infantry target the AT specialist sees.

It's not TC's responsibility to engage soft targets.
< / discussion >

BIS, give us the coax already. Or if you keep it this way, at least remove rifles from AA/AT specialists and AT riflemans. You can also remove the rifle from spotter, because after all he's a spotter.

gutsnav added a subscriber: gutsnav.May 7 2016, 4:29 PM

Balancing is not really an option. Every quality tank should have a coaxial MG and at least a commander MG for urban environments. BI did great work, but it's really unfinished/crappy.

PacMan added a subscriber: PacMan.May 7 2016, 4:29 PM

This should be a priority. Give a community member a nickel and a hug, and have them do this for an official release. Please.

@Gekkibi fully agree.
Someones says that need both commander(RCWS) and gunner MGs.Well merkavas doesn't have commander MGs in RCWS platform.You should turn out to use it.Well in urban combat this isn't good idea.
http://information2share.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/wallpaper-149046.jpg
Same thing with German Leopard2,this is modern tank,but they're doesn't have commander RCWS,but also got MG3 on top.

Probably reason - reability.Usual tacktics for tanks - always load anti-personel/HE/HEAT,if they got danger from infantry,because sabot shell extremely useless against infantry.
If they they see enemy tank - they shoots this anti-personel shell first,and they confuse enemy tank crew(Just imagine - you are rat in tin can,and someone knocking it with sledgehammer),they also may damage electronic,like commander/gunner sight and/or commander RCWS.And then they load and shoot anti-armor shells.

Remember - main weapon of the tank is a cannon,everything on the top is a reserve weapon.And main weapon should have ability to fire at soft targets.
Please - do not copy an M1A2 TUSK.There is a lot of interesting tanks in the world,and no one copy each one.Like:
T-72/T-80/T-90 - autoloader,crew is only 3 mans.Only 300 rounds for 12.7 MG.
T-95 prototype - autoloader and separated crew and ammo.
Leclerc - Coaxial 12.7 and commander 7.62.
Merkava - can carry a few passangers(Like crew of damaged tank),pretty safeful tank.May have a 60mm mortar or extended coaxial 12.7
Well all rest - typically have cannon and 7.62 coaxial and reserve 7.62,except M1 Abrams,they have both 12.7(As AA MG,but now they're useless) and 7.62.And a lot of ammo for them(If typical 7.62 ammo is around 4000 rounds,abrams typically have 23000(AFAIK) and 1000 for 12.7).

I can't think of any MBT nowadays that doesn't have an MG for both gunner and commander. Tanks in arma are pretty bad already without interiors, BIS could do some effort to make them at least enjoyable or fun to use.

@Chairborne "I can't think of any MBT nowadays that doesn't have an MG for both gunner and commander."

Depend what kind.Every one have,but not always on Remote Control System.
Merkava may have up to 4 Machineguns - Coaxial 7.62,Coaxial 12.7(Both Manned by gunner) and 2 7.62 on gunner and loader seats,but they doesn't have RCS.Keep on topic - the problem is T-100.They doesn't have coaxial,thats pretty wiered.

Well i'm okay with having to turn out to shoot but at least give it to us.
Same goes for the T100.

im the best at cod. my k/d is higher than all of yours. yess the t100 should have a coax gun. would add something to an otherwise fairly nice tank :)

Uhm...what?

The coaxial gun should be realistically based off the real world tank they modeled the T-100 off of and not just thrown on the tank with the excuse its the future. The caliber should also be looked into. A lot of modern tanks use 12.7mm and 7.62mm caliber weapons on armored vehicles.

Byku added a comment.Nov 8 2013, 1:03 AM

We're getting coaxial gun for T-100 ;), it is already modelled :D

Goose added a subscriber: Goose.May 7 2016, 4:29 PM
Goose added a comment.Nov 10 2013, 4:04 AM

^This would be good

Also I agree with ProGamer; 6.5mm seems very small for a tank's ONLY co-axial or AA gun...

In any case I think both the Merkava and the T100 should have 2 guns each and this ticket's upvotes show that most players seem to think the same thing.

I can has Coax gun pl0x?

Isn't there one already?

Mass-close of resolved tickets not updated in last two weeks.